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Thread: Authors should really stop telling readers how to give reviews

  1. #1351
    practical experience, FTW Rachel77's Avatar
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    Wow, the comments on that DA post have exploded since I last looked at it.

    I just...I don't get this whole behavior. When I was in college, I took a composition class (the class was a graduation requirement for all students). The teacher's approach was to have us write our essays and then divide up into smaller groups; the group would read every essay, and everyone in the group was to provide critical comments on each one. The person whose essay was being critiqued wasn't allowed to say anything more than "thank you" in response (and ideally, to say nothing at all). The teacher's point was that your work has to stand on its own; you can't follow it around to each reader and say, "No, this is what I really meant by this passage."

    I also took several art classes, and each one ended with all the students in the class putting their work for that day up on the wall for a group critique. The teacher would occasionally ask questions like "why did you make the choice to do this?" (it was a class, after all), but otherwise, the person whose drawing was being critiqued was to remain silent.

    The lesson I learned from these classes was that when you put your work out to the public eye, people will have opinions on them. And they're allowed to express those opinions without worrying about interference from you.

  2. #1352
    The cake is a lie. But still cake. shaldna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel77 View Post
    Wow, the comments on that DA post have exploded since I last looked at it.

    I just...I don't get this whole behavior. When I was in college, I took a composition class (the class was a graduation requirement for all students). The teacher's approach was to have us write our essays and then divide up into smaller groups; the group would read every essay, and everyone in the group was to provide critical comments on each one. The person whose essay was being critiqued wasn't allowed to say anything more than "thank you" in response (and ideally, to say nothing at all). The teacher's point was that your work has to stand on its own; you can't follow it around to each reader and say, "No, this is what I really meant by this passage."

    I also took several art classes, and each one ended with all the students in the class putting their work for that day up on the wall for a group critique. The teacher would occasionally ask questions like "why did you make the choice to do this?" (it was a class, after all), but otherwise, the person whose drawing was being critiqued was to remain silent.

    The lesson I learned from these classes was that when you put your work out to the public eye, people will have opinions on them. And they're allowed to express those opinions without worrying about interference from you.
    i agree with everything you just said
    TORCHWOOD - where the slash is canon

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  3. #1353
    silly puppy monster Roly's Avatar
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    The fact that this fiasco is coming out of Young Adult Lit primarily makes me embarrassed. This is precisely why we can't get any respect. Most people assume we're all just thin-skinned middle class mommies writing out our childish fantasies and expecting cookies and praise, and then scream and shriek and cry MEANIES when people *shock* criticize our work.

    So, uh, thanks to all the Stepford, 'but we should ALL get cake!' ninnies currently encouraging that opinion.
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  4. #1354
    Whatever I did, I didn't do it. Phaeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roly View Post
    The fact that this fiasco is coming out of Young Adult Lit primarily makes me embarrassed. This is precisely why we can't get any respect. Most people assume we're all just thin-skinned middle class mommies writing out our childish fantasies and expecting cookies and praise, and then scream and shriek and cry MEANIES when people *shock* criticize our work.

    So, uh, thanks to all the Stepford, 'but we should ALL get cake!' ninnies currently encouraging that opinion.
    No worries. I'm a thick-skinned Bohemian-class non-mommy who hasn't screamed or shrieked or cried at criticism yet. I'll break the stereotype.

    Course, I do write out my childish fantasies and expect cookies, so....
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  5. #1355
    Holding out for a Superhero... Sheryl Nantus's Avatar
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    If any of these punks want to try and trash my books - they're welcome to try.

    Pussies. Cowards. Punks.

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  6. #1356
    practical experience, FTW
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    Why It's Time To Stop The Goodreads Bullies


    We launched the site Stop the GR Bullies, to show the public what is happening. It is a site where victims of the abuse can feel safe to post a comment anonymously or send us a private message, sharing their experience without threat of retaliation.

    We welcome them, because until now, people have been too afraid to speak out. Our circle of supporters is growing exponentially every day as more and more people find us. More people have been harmed by the GR bullies than we ever knew. We knew there were not just authors but also readers who had had terrible experiences and left the site, but we had no idea how many. We are just beginning to realize it.

    With our site, we are trying to create awareness and incite change. Our methods are extreme but after trying to reason with the bullies, after trying to appeal to their humanity, all of which failed, we have come to understand that only by outing them, can we get their attention. We did. Not only did we get their attention, we managed to alert the public as well. We started out averaging 10,000 hits on our site at the beginning and expected that to taper off, but it hasn't. It has only grown bigger. People are talking about it and this is exactly what we want. We want people to address this growing problem that for so long has been ignored. We want the toxic, bullying atmosphere at GR to stop. And we want these people to be held accountable by public opinion. As we've said over and over, this is not about critical reviews. It is about their bullying behavior.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stop-t...b_1689661.html

    Um wow.

  7. #1357
    DenturePunk writer bearilou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    *sighs* man....

    Clarification: This is an opinion piece, and does not represent the views of HuffPost Books or its editors. We welcome readers to write a response in the comments or you can contact us if you would like to write a blogpost.
    Yeah, this is going to go well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeal View Post
    The first draft is a huge pile of clay that you've laboriously heaped on your table, patting it into a rough shape as you go along. From the second draft onward, you'll cut away chunks, add bits, pat and punch and pinch, until you finally have a gorgeous figure of, oh, Marcus Aurelius. Or a duck. But a damn fine duck.
    Quote Originally Posted by KTC View Post
    1) Write like your face is on fire.


  8. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearilou View Post
    *sighs* man....
    Only hope for me from that piece is that the comments are disapproving and condemning the STGRB crowd.

  9. #1359
    DenturePunk writer bearilou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    Only hope for me from that piece is that the comments are disapproving and condemning the STGRB crowd.
    Yes. Very much so. I'm hoping someone 'in charge' takes note of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeal View Post
    The first draft is a huge pile of clay that you've laboriously heaped on your table, patting it into a rough shape as you go along. From the second draft onward, you'll cut away chunks, add bits, pat and punch and pinch, until you finally have a gorgeous figure of, oh, Marcus Aurelius. Or a duck. But a damn fine duck.
    Quote Originally Posted by KTC View Post
    1) Write like your face is on fire.


  10. #1360
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    Last edited by fireluxlou; 07-20-2012 at 11:58 PM.

  11. #1361
    figuring it all out ElectricLights's Avatar
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    This honestly annoys me. If a book, in the reader's honest opinion, is not worth buying then let them state so. It's not up to the reader to worry about the author's finances and the implication that readers are obligated to do so is absurd. If a work wasn't up to par with a reader's standards then they should feel free to say so. I think it's actually a help to the author for their readers to be honest. How do you think they improve? Nothing is going to change and an author will continue to put out potentially "bad" books. Authors should thank readers for their opinion without being offended by it. Just like readers, if they're going to bad mouth a book, should give some ways on how they think it can be imprpoved. Sheesh.
    A word for the wise

  12. #1362
    The cake is a lie. But still cake. shaldna's Avatar
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    Okay, to end the speculation someone needs to call the cops, they can look into it, that website was paid for with SOMEONE'S credit card.
    TORCHWOOD - where the slash is canon

    Yes, I read Twilight. Yes, I hate it. No, I don't have to give you a reason why.


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  13. #1363
    Now with bonus eyelashes AW Moderator Sage's Avatar
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    Paranormal Bromance and Joy (PB&J) - NaNoWriMo - 25,004 words

    "This isn't Scooby Doo. We're not meddling kids who are going to find clues and solve the mystery."
    "This is Scooby Doo, except the monsters and witches are real, and they have your family! You and Joy are the only ones who can do anything about it."




  14. #1364
    practical experience, FTW
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    Not really liking the HuffPo explanation.

  15. #1365
    Now with bonus eyelashes AW Moderator Sage's Avatar
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    Foz's article is excellent, IMO
    Paranormal Bromance and Joy (PB&J) - NaNoWriMo - 25,004 words

    "This isn't Scooby Doo. We're not meddling kids who are going to find clues and solve the mystery."
    "This is Scooby Doo, except the monsters and witches are real, and they have your family! You and Joy are the only ones who can do anything about it."




  16. #1366
    Sophipygian AW Moderator Alessandra Kelley's Avatar
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    I hear stopthegrbullies dot com has whitewashed its pages and now claims it never posted private info, the big liar.

    I never bothered with a screen capture, but has anybody access to a Google cache or some earlier image of the site?

  17. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sage View Post
    Foz's article is excellent, IMO
    Yea Foz's article is. Just the 1st link about why they won't be taking it down. Lol they won't admit their doing criminal things to GR reviewers through email now would they?

  18. #1368
    practical experience, FTW
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    Eh wtf is this kind of comment?

    John Nelson Leith
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    Accusing someone of endangering women has become a very effective way to sabotage someone's reputation and moral credibility, making it a textbook example of the form of bullying known as relational aggression.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social...170300765.html

    Obvs someone who has just jumped in.

  19. #1369
    Sophipygian AW Moderator Alessandra Kelley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    Not really liking the HuffPo explanation.
    I am rapidly losing what respect I used to have for the Huffington Post, and not just because it gives Safari on my laptop conniptions and chokes the poor thing. Allowing this personage who purports to be a crowd of aggrieved persons to remain anonymous while stating its version of reality as if it were true is less than I would expect from a serious news site.

  20. #1370
    practical experience, FTW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessandra Kelley View Post
    I am rapidly losing what respect I used to have for the Huffington Post, and not just because it gives Safari on my laptop conniptions and chokes the poor thing. Allowing this personage who purports to be a crowd of aggrieved persons to remain anonymous while stating its version of reality as if it were true is less than I would expect from a serious news site.
    To be frank the entire explanation comes across as if they disbelieve the commenters and are supporting stgrb as truth.

  21. #1371
    The Walrus. M.Macabre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    Not really liking the HuffPo explanation.
    It was like a half-hazaard paraphrasing of everyone else's points slapped together in a non-nonsensical fashion. He might as well have said, ''I didn't know what was going on when we allowed the first blog post, and I still don't really know what's going but here's some more information...''
    ♂♥♂

  22. #1372
    USA Today Bestselling Author Jamiekswriter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roly View Post
    The fact that this fiasco is coming out of Young Adult Lit primarily makes me embarrassed. This is precisely why we can't get any respect. Most people assume we're all just thin-skinned middle class mommies writing out our childish fantasies and expecting cookies and praise, and then scream and shriek and cry MEANIES when people *shock* criticize our work.

    So, uh, thanks to all the Stepford, 'but we should ALL get cake!' ninnies currently encouraging that opinion.
    This.

    Thankfully, there was not one single comment in support of them on the huffpost article. That makes me so relieved.

  23. #1373
    Cultus Gopherus MacAllister Medievalist's Avatar
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    But see this fabulous response by Foz Meadows to the HP post

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/foz-me...usaolp00000008

    And an "explanation" from the HP Book Editor, one Andrew Losowsky.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew...usaolp00000008

    I'm underwhelmed; I think he's all about the traffic.

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  24. #1374
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    The explanation is such a blatant ass-covering. If they'd admitted the piece was one-sided and misleading they might have kept some face. But no.

    In Huffington Bookpages, shark jumps you.
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  25. #1375
    Wicked chicken AW Moderator evilrooster's Avatar
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    HuffPo is teaching the controversy. Unimpressive.
    An excerpt from Bigglethwaite & Windemere's Manual of Proper and Exquisite English on the Capitalisation of Historical Events.

    The capitalisation of historical terms is a matter of concern to many writers. The rule, though simple, requires and reveals the writer's judgment, opinions, and preconceptions, and should be applied with care:


    1. Matters of absolute importance should be capitalised.
    2. Matters of no wider historical import should have only their proper nouns capitalised.
    3. Matters which the author not only considers insignificant, but wishes had never occurred, should have all words rendered in lower-case.
    4. If the writer looks upon history as a kind of fantastical territory, and wishes to assert either that it is wildly unlikely or highly distorted, all matters that can be considered nouns of any sort should be capitalised


    B&W 2:14

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