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Thread: Authors should really stop telling readers how to give reviews

  1. #1251
    Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard. willietheshakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamiltonburger View Post
    I never read my reviews. If they are good, they depress me because they are never full of enough extravagant praise. And if they are bad, I am destroyed.

    Authors create, reviewers only criticize. It's two different games. W.H. Auden said, "Reviewing is not really a respectable occupation."
    WH Auden can bite me.
    Last edited by willietheshakes; 07-14-2012 at 03:06 AM. Reason: Wow, that was ridiculously inappropriate. Sorry all.

  2. #1252
    Cultus Gopherus MacAllister Medievalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessandra Kelley View Post
    Reviewers give opinions on works for the sake of people who may wish to read/view/listen to them. The purpose of reviews is to convey information to other members of the audience. Properly done, reviews have nothing to do with the authors, only the works.
    Yep; reviews are for readers, not authors.

    A review that describes the book accurately is a good review, whether or not the reviewer "liked" the book. I've bought, liked, and hand-sold books other reviewers didn't like.

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  3. #1253
    The King and Queen of Cheese BenPanced's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubastes View Post
    To add a little levity to the thread, here's a post (with pictures!) on the dos and don'ts of responding to negative reviews:

    http://gossamerobsessions.blogspot.c...s-dos-and.html
    +10, if only for pointing me in the direction of the phrase "crispity cool".
    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    Yep; reviews are for readers, not authors.

    A review that describes the book accurately is a good review, whether or not the reviewer "liked" the book. I've bought, liked, and hand-sold books other reviewers didn't like.
    The film critic in one of the local papers has gone on record as undeniably, without hesitation, and with some relish hating science fiction and fantasy movies. I mean, with the passion of 10,000 burning nuns hatred. But he's given many sf/f movies 4 and 5 star ratings because they did what they set out to do: they told a decent story in an entertaining way.
    Last edited by BenPanced; 07-14-2012 at 04:55 AM.
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  4. #1254
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willietheshakes View Post
    WH Auden can bite me.
    If he does you'll turn into a zombie too and start hungering for human brains.

    Just sayin'.

  5. #1255
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubastes View Post
    To add a little levity to the thread, here's a post (with pictures!) on the dos and don'ts of responding to negative reviews:

    http://gossamerobsessions.blogspot.c...s-dos-and.html
    I had a nice little Ranty McRant to share, on account of this story that I wrote for free and donated to a group on Goodreads to contribute to the community is currently being thoroughly trashed by Goodreads reviewers.

    However, thanks to this thread -- and this here post with very inspiring pictures -- I will now simply retire to a fetal position in my bathtub with my alcoholic beverage and crispity snack of choice.

    After keeping up with this thread since its inception, through umpteen pages...lesson learned.

    Mmm. Crispity snack.

  6. #1256
    Sophipygian AW Moderator Alessandra Kelley's Avatar
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    Evelyn Kriete has posted an explanation of why she erased that Steampunk list on Goodreads and replaced it with one of her own.

    I find it less than compelling.



    Details on this started here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Alessandra Kelley View Post
    There's an extreme case of author-mucking-with-readers'-information happening right now.

    Evelyn Kriete, a steampunk author, has just in the last few hours wiped out hundreds of readers' votes on Goodreads lists.

    These are lists painstakingly created over months and years by the slow accumulation of readers' votes for the benefit of other readers.

    This list, which had 167 voters and innumerable books on it four hours ago, now has a single voter -- Ms. Kriete.

    If you have voted on any steampunk-themed list on Goodreads, please check to see if your votes have been vandalized.

    Goodreads discussion thread of it here:
    http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...punk-list-help

    and to a lesser degree here:
    http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...mment_53756426

  7. #1257
    Heckuva good sport frimble3's Avatar
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    So Evelyn Kriete gets an e-mail on a Sunday, claims she made an attempt to contact Administration, didn't get a reply, so, out of a apparent feeling of moral responsibility to the integrity of 'her' list, she felt compelled to delete the whole thing? Immediately?
    Since GR, for some reason (I have no idea what the qualifications are) made this Evelyn a Librarian, surely she must have known that no-one's 'in the office' on a Sunday?
    Maybe I've got this all wrong, not being a Goodreader. Maybe the timeline is much, much different. Maybe she tried for days, in vain, to get someone in authority to investigate, and cruelly ignored.
    Maybe it wasn't done, deliberately, on a Sunday, in hopes that it would go unnoticed or blow over by the time the Admins came in the next day.
    Maybe it's sheerest coincidence that books by her and her pals were apparently the only ones she could think of to put back on the list.

  8. #1258
    is watching you via her avatar jjdebenedictis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessandra Kelley View Post
    Ditto. Based on Allessandra and Austin's comments, it looks like there is some kind of author spat behind the scenes and the list became a casualty in that fight. The mysterious Rora deleted 14 books Kriete had helped to promote, so Kriete made the list "fair" by deleting nearly everything else and then adding her personal favourites back.
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  9. #1259
    Writer is as Writer does Terie's Avatar
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    Hmmmm. This was such a life-and-death emergency that Kriete couldn't wait a single day to 'fix' it? Weird. I didn't realise lists on GR were so....critical. (/sarcasm)
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  10. #1260
    DenturePunk writer bearilou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terie View Post
    Hmmmm. This was such a life-and-death emergency that Kriete couldn't wait a single day to 'fix' it? Weird. I didn't realise lists on GR were so....critical. (/sarcasm)
    Goodreads.
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  11. #1261
    Sophipygian AW Moderator Alessandra Kelley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terie View Post
    Hmmmm. This was such a life-and-death emergency that Kriete couldn't wait a single day to 'fix' it? Weird. I didn't realise lists on GR were so....critical. (/sarcasm)
    Yeah, well, they're not vital, no. But they are a part of the Goodreads community. People find book recommendations and friends through them. They're one of the ways of finding mutual interests and interesting books that are like books one already has read, or other members who are interested in similar things (you can't easily search for members on Goodreads, so a lot of the time finding people is just sheer luck). And there's that nice moment of seeing that someone else likes an obscure book you like.

    The lists on Goodreads are a part of the life of Goodreads, and this one just got clear-cut.

  12. #1262
    practical experience, FTW Silver-Midnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubastes View Post
    To add a little levity to the thread, here's a post (with pictures!) on the dos and don'ts of responding to negative reviews:

    http://gossamerobsessions.blogspot.c...s-dos-and.html
    Alright, I admit it. I laughed.

  13. #1263
    The cake is a lie. But still cake. shaldna's Avatar
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    The thing is, one the whole I really like GR. I'm not a really active member, but I find it really useful as a reader to find new things, recommendations etc. Honestly, the shit that's been going on over there lately makes me pretty sad, and the worst bit is that the staff work really hard over there to make it a nice place to be. Just a shame some of the members can't do the same. Seems in every community there are always a minority of assholes who ruin things for everyone else.
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  14. #1264
    Writer is as Writer does Terie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessandra Kelley View Post
    Yeah, well, they're not vital, no. But they are a part of the Goodreads community. People find book recommendations and friends through them. They're one of the ways of finding mutual interests and interesting books that are like books one already has read, or other members who are interested in similar things (you can't easily search for members on Goodreads, so a lot of the time finding people is just sheer luck). And there's that nice moment of seeing that someone else likes an obscure book you like.

    The lists on Goodreads are a part of the life of Goodreads, and this one just got clear-cut.
    Yes, I get this. But 14 books being inappropritely removed from a list isn't an emergency that must be taken care of immediately. It just isn't. Anyone (ahem, Kriege) who thinks so has got their priorities skewed.

    It would have done no harm to anyone in any way whatsoever to leave the list alone until the GR staff could review and resolve the situation.

    That Kriege claims now that she decided it was an emergency that couldn't wait for GR attention during working hours smacks of being an after-the-fact excuse drummed up to justify herself. It simply isn't an actual good reason.
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  15. #1265
    In this week's WTFery, it's reviewers behaving badly. A review blog takes an author to task for daring to out their policy of charging $95 per review. I can confirm the blogger's story: when I requested a review several weeks ago, they sent me the same form e-mail. Although the author deleted the review blog's name from the post, it's still clear from the comments which review blog it is:

    http://michelegormanwriter.blogspot....r-reviews.html

    http://www.eroticromancepublishers.c...-per-star.html
    Last edited by Bubastes; 07-17-2012 at 05:25 AM.

  16. #1266
    A bit of a wallflower absitinvidia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubastes View Post
    In this week's WTFery, it's reviewers behaving badly. A review blog takes an author to task for daring to out their policy of charging $95 per review. I can confirm the blogger's story: when I requested a review several weeks ago, they sent me the same form e-mail. Although the author deleted the review blog's name from the post, it's still clear from the comments which review blog it is:

    http://michelegormanwriter.blogspot....r-reviews.html

    http://www.eroticromancepublishers.c...-per-star.html
    Because I have a huge problem with the threats this review site is throwing around, I have no problem linking to it:

    ttp://chicklitgirls.com/ Chick Lit Girls.


    ETA: As far as I can tell, the idea is they charge for the review and will post it only if it is a 4- or 5-star review. They keep referring to Kirkus as their model, without mentioning that this is not Kirkus as most people think of it but the Kirkus indie program for self-published authors, which allows the author, not the reviewer, to determine where (and if) the review is posted.

    Essentially these reviewers are threatening a blogger for (correctly) pointing out that the review site is charging authors for positive reviews.
    Last edited by AW Admin; 07-23-2012 at 03:03 AM. Reason: No traffic for you!

  17. #1267
    practical experience, FTW Silver-Midnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubastes View Post
    In this week's WTFery, it's reviewers behaving badly. A review blog takes an author to task for daring to out their policy of charging $95 per review. I can confirm the blogger's story: when I requested a review several weeks ago, they sent me the same form e-mail. Although the author deleted the review blog's name from the post, it's still clear from the comments which review blog it is:

    http://michelegormanwriter.blogspot....r-reviews.html

    http://www.eroticromancepublishers.c...-per-star.html


    Wow. No words. I'm speechless.

  18. #1268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver-Midnight View Post


    Wow. No words. I'm speechless.
    Damn. Me too. Holy crap.

  19. #1269
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Kirkus = Real (unpaid) reviews. Highly respected.

    Kirkus Indie = Paid-for reviews. Universally ignored.

  20. #1270
    Not easily managed Beachgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captcha View Post
    Damn. Me too. Holy crap.
    Me three. That's just...wow.
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  21. #1271
    practical experience, FTW eternalised's Avatar
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    Well I've been sitting on a gold mine all this time. If I were to charge $95 per review, I'd be filthy rich by the end of the year. (All right, so maybe not "filthy rich", but close enough.)

    This makes me feel sick. I already get mad at Kirkus Indie for asking payment for reviews, and now regular bloggers go about it as well. Seriously? As a book reviewer myself, I find receiving a copy of a book and sometimes an author's gratitude, more than rewarding enough. I've had authors be so glad for my reviews they sent me paperback copies of their books, even after the review (I live in Belgium, so it was quite a big deal) or send me bookmarks afterwards because they're so glad with my review. That's all the reward I'll ever need. I would never think about charging money for reviews. Besides, how biased are those reviews then? Only 4 or 5 stars? You might as well ask your cousin to put up a review.
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  22. #1272
    Grumpy writer and editor Absolute Sage Gillhoughly's Avatar
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    I've plenty of cousins who'll review any of my books for beer money.

    Of course, the more beer I give them, the more stars in the reviews. The spellin' ain't so hot, but by damn, they love that thar book.

  23. #1273
    Aaaaaand, the GR bully thing has escalated:

    http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/...-to-be-stalked

    ETA: And yet there are actually people who defend what the site is doing. The comments are mind blowing, and I didn't even bother to read them all:

    http://dearauthor.com/features/lette...iews/#comments
    Last edited by Bubastes; 07-18-2012 at 05:33 AM.

  24. #1274
    DenturePunk writer bearilou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubastes View Post
    Aaaaaand, the GR bully thing has escalated:

    http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/...-to-be-stalked
    wow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeal View Post
    The first draft is a huge pile of clay that you've laboriously heaped on your table, patting it into a rough shape as you go along. From the second draft onward, you'll cut away chunks, add bits, pat and punch and pinch, until you finally have a gorgeous figure of, oh, Marcus Aurelius. Or a duck. But a damn fine duck.
    Quote Originally Posted by KTC View Post
    1) Write like your face is on fire.


  25. #1275
    practical experience, FTW CQuinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubastes View Post
    Aaaaaand, the GR bully thing has escalated:

    http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/...-to-be-stalked

    ETA: And yet there are actually people who defend what the site is doing. The comments are mind blowing, and I didn't even bother to read them all:

    http://dearauthor.com/features/lette...iews/#comments
    "Revenge bullying"...vindictive much? This is beyond ridiculous. Frankly, I agree that law enforcement should be informed. Threats are not legal and not okay.

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