bannedbooks

Read a Banned Book

If this site is helpful to you,
Please consider a voluntary subscription to defray ongoing expenses.


 

Welcome to the AbsoluteWrite Water Cooler! Please read The Newbie Guide To Absolute Write

Page 131 of 179 FirstFirst ... 315681106121125126127128129130131132133134135136137141156 ... LastLast
Results 3,251 to 3,275 of 4458

Thread: Authors should really stop telling readers how to give reviews

  1. #3251
    Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. kaitie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Or the Master. Whatever.
    Posts
    10,858
    Completely agreed.


  2. #3252
    Baby plot bunneh sniffs out a clue Snowstorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lost on the Kansas Plains.
    Posts
    13,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Amadan View Post
    If you're going to talk about someone in a public forum, don't say shit you wouldn't say if they were standing there.
    True. And those reviewers should be prepared to state why they have the view they do.

    Historical romance Tarnished Gold, historical mystery Blood Atonement, and contemporary mystery Clear and Convincing Evidence
    WIP: screenplay Blood Atonement

    Blog Twitter Facebook



  3. #3253
    The cake is a lie. But still cake. shaldna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Belfast
    Posts
    7,485
    Quote Originally Posted by Amadan View Post
    That's their problem.

    If you're going to talk about someone in a public forum, don't say shit you wouldn't say if they were standing there.


    While I don't think people should have to hide behind screens, given all the shit that sites like STGRB have pulled lately, and the sheer number of author meltdowns - Just look at Anne Rice this week - I also don;t like people using anonimity to bully. But I feel that we really need to differentiate between the two.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snowstorm View Post
    True. And those reviewers should be prepared to state why they have the view they do.
    This I actually don't agree with. I mean, opinions are opinions. Some people won't like things and that's their perogative.

    I mean, I don't like sweet corn, but I don't feel that I have to justify that dislike to you or anyone else. Likewise with books, if I don't like something, if it's not for me, then I dont' feel that I should have to qualify my opinions and feelings or that they should be subject to scruitiny by anyone else.

    At the end of the day, reviews are not for me. They are for my readers. And I trust that my readers are smart enough to judge reviews for themselves./
    TORCHWOOD - where the slash is canon

    Yes, I read Twilight. Yes, I hate it. No, I don't have to give you a reason why.


    Here be snark : www.clairewriteswords.wordpress.com

  4. #3254
    Tyrant King jeffo20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central New York
    Posts
    1,747
    Quote Originally Posted by shaldna View Post
    opinions are opinions. Some people won't like things and that's their perogative.

    I mean, I don't like sweet corn, but I don't feel that I have to justify that dislike to you or anyone else. Likewise with books, if I don't like something, if it's not for me, then I dont' feel that I should have to qualify my opinions and feelings or that they should be subject to scruitiny by anyone else.
    While I agree with you in general, if you are reviewing a book, you kind of have to give a little more explanation, otherwise it's like Wayne and Garth reviewing the movies.

    Wayne: I liked it. Garth?

    Garth: I thought it sucked.

    That's amusing as a Saturday Night Live sketch, but not especially helpful, and reviews are supposed to be helpful (to potential readers, yes, not authors).
    Blogging at The Doubting Writer


    "An Unexpected Reunion" in Winter's Regret, from Elephant's Bookshelf Press.

  5. #3255
    DenturePunk writer bearilou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    yawping barbarically over the roofs of the world
    Posts
    5,945
    Quote Originally Posted by shaldna View Post
    While I don't think people should have to hide behind screens, given all the shit that sites like STGRB have pulled lately, and the sheer number of author meltdowns - Just look at Anne Rice this week - I also don;t like people using anonimity to bully. But I feel that we really need to differentiate between the two.
    Yeah. And I was actually referring to the fact already discussed (either here or in another thread) about how reviewers are uncomfortable when they know an author is hovering in their review space.

    Not because the reviewer now can't suddenly say anything at all for feeling self-conscious, but because it tends to shut down all conversation because people, even if they aren't saying anything nasty, tend to be uncomfortable that the writer of the thing they're discussing is there and they feel the societal pressure to be nice or don't say anything.

    It stops all conversation. And I would think it could be harmful to traffic if people are uncomfortable because they will not want to engage next time if they know the author is there.

    I don't have an opinion one way or another but I can see how it will stop the discussion while everyone looks awkwardly at the author who has suddenly decided to announce themselves as the writer of the work they were talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeal View Post
    The first draft is a huge pile of clay that you've laboriously heaped on your table, patting it into a rough shape as you go along. From the second draft onward, you'll cut away chunks, add bits, pat and punch and pinch, until you finally have a gorgeous figure of, oh, Marcus Aurelius. Or a duck. But a damn fine duck.
    Quote Originally Posted by KTC View Post
    1) Write like your face is on fire.


  6. #3256
    The cake is a lie. But still cake. shaldna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Belfast
    Posts
    7,485
    Quote Originally Posted by bearilou View Post
    Yeah. And I was actually referring to the fact already discussed (either here or in another thread) about how reviewers are uncomfortable when they know an author is hovering in their review space.

    Not because the reviewer now can't suddenly say anything at all for feeling self-conscious, but because it tends to shut down all conversation because people, even if they aren't saying anything nasty, tend to be uncomfortable that the writer of the thing they're discussing is there and they feel the societal pressure to be nice or don't say anything.

    It stops all conversation. And I would think it could be harmful to traffic if people are uncomfortable because they will not want to engage next time if they know the author is there.

    I don't have an opinion one way or another but I can see how it will stop the discussion while everyone looks awkwardly at the author who has suddenly decided to announce themselves as the writer of the work they were talking about.
    Oh god, yes.

    This is part of the reason I think authors need to stay away from reviews. Lately I've seen a couple of authors in particular who feel the need to comment on all of their negative reviews - and some of them not in a ncie way.

    It makes people uncomfortable and you're right, it does stop discussion.
    TORCHWOOD - where the slash is canon

    Yes, I read Twilight. Yes, I hate it. No, I don't have to give you a reason why.


    Here be snark : www.clairewriteswords.wordpress.com

  7. #3257
    empty-nester! shadowwalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SE Minnesota
    Posts
    5,601
    I would agree somewhat with "explanation" versus "justify", but I also think sometimes things just don't sit well and we don't know why, we just know it's not working for us. So we can say, "I don't like sweet corn - don't know why, but I don't." And others would say, "Yeah, I don't like it either - and this dish has sweet corn so...". The Wayne and Garth thing - would anyone even consider that a review (and thus engage in discussion)?

    But then I don't pay attention to reviews so what do I know?
    Je suis Charlie

    "It seems rather like wanting to be ... a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip." - Roger Zelazny

    Passion is easy; commitment is hard.

  8. #3258
    Banned for Trolling
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    8,651
    Quote Originally Posted by bearilou View Post
    Not because the reviewer now can't suddenly say anything at all for feeling self-conscious, but because it tends to shut down all conversation because people, even if they aren't saying anything nasty, tend to be uncomfortable that the writer of the thing they're discussing is there and they feel the societal pressure to be nice or don't say anything.
    If you feel that pressure, then maybe you should stick to only writing positive reviews. Or don't review.

    Seriously, there is no right to post opinions in a vacuum or to a uniformly supportive audience.

    I agree it's generally a bad idea for authors to insert themselves into a review discussion, especially if it's a negative review, especially if the author is going to argue with the review, but I feel no sympathy for people who want to trash a book or an author but only if they know the author is safely out of earshot.

  9. #3259
    Whatever I did, I didn't do it. Phaeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Providence, RI
    Posts
    9,231
    I don't think people need to explain or justify their reviews. However, those who do, and who do it well, are the reviewers I'll read. The others I have to discount. "I love it!" and "I hate it!" really tell me nothing.

    Now, if you're speaking from the podium at a public forum, I have more expectation of you explaining your position. Otherwise, what's to discuss?

    At any rate. In these days of Googling-your-own-name, it looks like a reviewer needs to assume that the author will see her review -- that the author's in the room, whether that space is the riotous Amazon ballroom or the closet of a tiny blog. Can't deal with that? Don't put up the review.
    Last edited by Phaeal; 05-05-2013 at 06:59 PM.
    SUMM0NED (T0R, available NOW!) Real magic becomes real trouble when Sean summons the wrong familiar.



    And so it goes.

    Follow me on TWITTER: https://twitter.com/AnneMPillsworth

    Website: http://annempillsworth.com/

  10. #3260
    Stay in and write. Erin Latimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by shaldna View Post
    While I don't think people should have to hide behind screens, given all the shit that sites like STGRB have pulled lately, and the sheer number of author meltdowns - Just look at Anne Rice this week ./
    THIS week? Did she meltdown again?

    To be fair, her last meltdown wasn't okay, but the amazon reviewers did say some horrible stuff. I wouldn't have replied though, probably just dissolved in tears.
    I make weird videos about writing:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/TheELatimer

    I Blog:
    http://elatimer.com/

    I haz the Twitters: http://twitter.com/ELatimerWrites

  11. #3261
    empty-nester! shadowwalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SE Minnesota
    Posts
    5,601
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeal View Post
    At any rate. In these days of Googling-your-own-name, it looks like a reviewer needs to assume that the author will see her review -- that the author's in the room, whether that space is the riotous Amazon ballroom or the closet of a tiny blog. Can't deal with that? Don't put up the review.
    I don't do reviews, but if I did and the author popped in - well, my blog, my control - author pops back out again. "Thanks, but this review is for readers. Feel free to quote me on your own blog though." So that's how I'd deal with it. Kind of a 'look, but don't touch' type of thing. Putting up a review shouldn't necessitate putting up with the author.
    Je suis Charlie

    "It seems rather like wanting to be ... a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip." - Roger Zelazny

    Passion is easy; commitment is hard.

  12. #3262
    Baby plot bunneh sniffs out a clue Snowstorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lost on the Kansas Plains.
    Posts
    13,226
    Quote Originally Posted by shaldna View Post
    This I actually don't agree with. I mean, opinions are opinions. Some people won't like things and that's their perogative.

    I mean, I don't like sweet corn, but I don't feel that I have to justify that dislike to you or anyone else.
    As a general reader giving a review, then no, you don't have to justify what it is you do or don't like. If you're sitting on discussion panel as they were in the OP--which is what I was referring to--yes, I think you as a panel member should be able to articulate why.

    Historical romance Tarnished Gold, historical mystery Blood Atonement, and contemporary mystery Clear and Convincing Evidence
    WIP: screenplay Blood Atonement

    Blog Twitter Facebook



  13. #3263
    Banned for Trolling
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    8,651
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowwalker View Post
    I don't do reviews, but if I did and the author popped in - well, my blog, my control - author pops back out again. "Thanks, but this review is for readers. Feel free to quote me on your own blog though." So that's how I'd deal with it. Kind of a 'look, but don't touch' type of thing. Putting up a review shouldn't necessitate putting up with the author.

    That works if it's your own blog, but not on public book review blogs, or sites like Amazon or Goodreads.

  14. #3264
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    right here
    Posts
    28,004
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowwalker View Post
    Putting up a review shouldn't necessitate putting up with the author.
    Indeed. I have a delete comment button, and I am not afraid to use it.
    Emily Veinglory

  15. #3265
    empty-nester! shadowwalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SE Minnesota
    Posts
    5,601
    Quote Originally Posted by Amadan View Post
    That works if it's your own blog, but not on public book review blogs, or sites like Amazon or Goodreads.
    Agreed. A public site is, fortunately or not, open to anyone for comments.
    Je suis Charlie

    "It seems rather like wanting to be ... a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip." - Roger Zelazny

    Passion is easy; commitment is hard.

  16. #3266
    The cake is a lie. But still cake. shaldna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Belfast
    Posts
    7,485
    Quote Originally Posted by Amadan View Post
    If you feel that pressure, then maybe you should stick to only writing positive reviews. Or don't review.
    Which is exactly what those sort of authors want - that everyone only ever responds in glowing 5 stars.

    Look at it this way - if I read a book by Z famous author and I thought, 'hmm, some issues with this' and I wrote my three star review and stated those and how I felt etc. Then that author goes all bat shit and sics her legions of rabid fangirls on me, calls me names and humiliates me in a very public forum, how should I react? How can one person stand up and hold their own when faced with the onslaught from thousands of Z author supporters?

    It becomes a very intimidating place for reviewers.

    Now, I can fully understand and I have first hand experience of how awful it is to get a bad review, but as someone up thread said, once the book is out, my part is done. I have no business standing over people trying to tell them what they should think about it and then going crazy when they don't agree with me.

    So this whole 'if you can't say anything nice' just doesn't sit with me at all. Now, I'm not saying that all reviewers are saints - because some are downright nasty, and I've seen plenty of malicious reviews that were nothing more than a personal attack on the author - but the general reviewing population should be able to review a book honestly and without fear of the shadow of the author standing behind them.


    I agree it's generally a bad idea for authors to insert themselves into a review discussion, especially if it's a negative review, especially if the author is going to argue with the review, but I feel no sympathy for people who want to trash a book or an author but only if they know the author is safely out of earshot.
    This is it. I fully understand why people want to defend themselves, particularly if the review is a personal attack and not about the book. But even still, it takes a stronger person to rise above it and not respond. Sometimes people say provocative things BECAUSE they know the author is going to see it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Erin Latimer View Post
    THIS week? Did she meltdown again?

    To be fair, her last meltdown wasn't okay, but the amazon reviewers did say some horrible stuff. I wouldn't have replied though, probably just dissolved in tears.
    Yep.

    A blogger had bought a second hand copy of Pandora to use in a craft project. She read the book before cutting it up and posted a review that wasn't glowing - to be fair it wasn't that bad a review, certainly she didn't say anything that hasn't been said before - and then proceeded with her craft project.

    Next thing you know Anne Rice is posting about it and her legions of minions are slagging off this blogger and calling her all sorts of names, including Nazi, and Rice is sitting on high, smugly stirring the pot.

    Not cool
    TORCHWOOD - where the slash is canon

    Yes, I read Twilight. Yes, I hate it. No, I don't have to give you a reason why.


    Here be snark : www.clairewriteswords.wordpress.com

  17. #3267
    Banned for Trolling
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    8,651
    Quote Originally Posted by shaldna View Post
    So this whole 'if you can't say anything nice' just doesn't sit with me at all.
    Oh, you misunderstand me completely. I am not saying reviewers should only post positive reviews.

    I just have no sympathy for reviewers who are afraid of an author responding to a review.

    Obviously, authors should behave themselves, and especially not sic fans on negative reviews. Some authors are batshit crazy, and Anne Rice is in a league of her own. But if you're talking about someone or their work, and you're doing it in a public space, sometimes the person you're talking about will respond.

  18. #3268
    empty-nester! shadowwalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SE Minnesota
    Posts
    5,601
    Quote Originally Posted by Amadan View Post
    I just have no sympathy for reviewers who are afraid of an author responding to a review.

    ... Some authors are batshit crazy, and Anne Rice is in a league of her own.
    You see the problem there - authors who behave badly are exactly the reason why any author responding to a review can cause the discussion to dilute into blah. The reviewer and anyone wanting to comment know about these idiots and then it becomes a matter of "Oh I don't want this author to go batshit and create mega problems for me so I better watch what I say". Sure, there's that chance even if the author doesn't actually engage with the reviewer - but once they do, the threat is more real.
    Je suis Charlie

    "It seems rather like wanting to be ... a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip." - Roger Zelazny

    Passion is easy; commitment is hard.

  19. #3269
    DenturePunk writer bearilou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    yawping barbarically over the roofs of the world
    Posts
    5,945
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowwalker View Post
    You see the problem there - authors who behave badly are exactly the reason why any author responding to a review can cause the discussion to dilute into blah. The reviewer and anyone wanting to comment know about these idiots and then it becomes a matter of "Oh I don't want this author to go batshit and create mega problems for me so I better watch what I say". Sure, there's that chance even if the author doesn't actually engage with the reviewer - but once they do, the threat is more real.
    It certainly squashes any conversation occurring on a blog where the review was posted.

    It also creates an environment where only 5-star reviews ever get posted because after a while, the reviewer gets tired of being the target of some batshit person who starts a goddamn site that publishes your personal information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaeal View Post
    The first draft is a huge pile of clay that you've laboriously heaped on your table, patting it into a rough shape as you go along. From the second draft onward, you'll cut away chunks, add bits, pat and punch and pinch, until you finally have a gorgeous figure of, oh, Marcus Aurelius. Or a duck. But a damn fine duck.
    Quote Originally Posted by KTC View Post
    1) Write like your face is on fire.


  20. #3270
    Banned for Trolling
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    8,651
    Quote Originally Posted by bearilou View Post
    It certainly squashes any conversation occurring on a blog where the review was posted.
    Only if reviewers insist on acting like terrified children.

    It also creates an environment where only 5-star reviews ever get posted
    This is empirically not true and has no chance of becoming true.

    because after a while, the reviewer gets tired of being the target of some batshit person who starts a goddamn site that publishes your personal information.
    The batshit people starting sites that publish personal information aren't authors, they're batshit fans. Which matches my experience, actually - I've rarely had an author respond to a negative review, and when it did happen, the author was perfectly civil. It's been angry fans more likely to scream at me for criticizing a book they like. Look at any blog known for publishing negative reviews, and rarely does an author get involved, but quite often it's the author's fans losing their shit.

  21. #3271
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    right here
    Posts
    28,004
    Quote Originally Posted by Amadan View Post
    Only if reviewers insist on acting like terrified children. .
    Um, could we please try to find the middle ground here? Because some of us "terrified children" have had some experiences with authors that justify a degree of caution even when nothing openly bad has happened (yet). Your experience is your experience, and mine is mine. We could both strive not to over-generalize.
    Emily Veinglory

  22. #3272
    empty-nester! shadowwalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SE Minnesota
    Posts
    5,601
    Quote Originally Posted by Amadan View Post
    Only if reviewers insist on acting like terrified children.
    You keep saying things like that, but have you ever been a target? I have, in another area, and it ain't fun. Acting as if this fear of retaliation is childish is just not real world. Ask the people made targets of That Site.
    Je suis Charlie

    "It seems rather like wanting to be ... a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip." - Roger Zelazny

    Passion is easy; commitment is hard.

  23. #3273
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In chaos
    Posts
    21,394
    Amadan, I don't intend to start a pile-on, but I wanted to add my voice to the others here. I too have had authors target me because of some of the reviews I've written, and it's not nice. It's particularly not nice when I get threats via my blogs, by email, or in the post; it's especially unpleasant when people phone my unlisted home number and say abusive things to my (then) eleven-year old son who just happened to answer the phone.

    I won't abandon my standards and only post five-star reviews; but nor will I put up with that sort of stuff as a regular occurrence. Book reviews aren't nearly as important to me as my family, and I'm not acting like a frightened child by recognising that.

  24. #3274
    Banned for Trolling
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    8,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    Amadan, I don't intend to start a pile-on, but I wanted to add my voice to the others here. I too have had authors target me because of some of the reviews I've written, and it's not nice. It's particularly not nice when I get threats via my blogs, by email, or in the post; it's especially unpleasant when people phone my unlisted home number and say abusive things to my (then) eleven-year old son who just happened to answer the phone.

    But the issue is not whether mentally unbalanced people should harass, stalk, and threaten people. I'm amazed you think I am even remotely condoning that. An author who engages in that sort of abusive behavior is clearly way over the edge, just like anyone who engages in that sort of behavior.

  25. #3275
    The King and Queen of Cheese BenPanced's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    dunking doughnuts at Dunkin' Donuts
    Posts
    16,095
    But nobody knows if an author is unhinged until a review comes out and they lose their shit on Amazon or wherever. If it happens once, why should a reviewer avoid reviewing the book or step back and delete a review, regardless of level of worship or disdain, that's already been posted?
    I still poop rainbows.

    I won't steal any of your ideas. I have enough of my own I'm not using.


Page 131 of 179 FirstFirst ... 315681106121125126127128129130131132133134135136137141156 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Custom Search