Perfect Iambic Pentameter

kdnxdr

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Ok! So, most of it is not going to be perfect.....but I did get your attention!

Blame this thread on PNHT, he made me do it. Here at AWpoetry forums, we've talked all around technical/form issues regarding writing poetry. Well, this is one of those threads where we get to "flex our form" so to speak.

PNHT got me to reading The Ode Less Travelled - Unlocking The Poet Within by Stephen Fry and wa lah!, I was inspired to start this thread.

Our working definition will come out of TOLT, as mentioned previously, and is as follows: "exactly ten syllables and five iambic feet (five stresses on the even-numbered beats) to the line. It's as simple as that, two lines of iambic pentameter........come on, you know we can do it.

You go first.
 

kdnxdr

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NG, I truely respect that you are a wealth of information. But, honestly, this little thread was intended for those that want the economy model to take it for a test spin. Starting with the bare bones is a great way to build up a decent set of abs. For those that are regulars in the gym, they might not find the 5lb weights to their liking.

You're welcome to start us off with a examplary set, if you would :Hug2:.
 

Norman D Gutter

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Ah, but did I not make my statement with IP? Regular (i.e. "perfect") in the first line with a relief foot in the second. I wasn't aware the subject matter of the lines was restricted.
 
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kdnxdr

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:D Norman, Norman, Norman.

You are a teacher!

By no means is the subject matter restricted. I was just hoping to give opportunity to people, like myself, to surrender (under the white flag) :flag:

hoping to build up my courage, and others, who have shyed away from learning the nuts & bolts of formal poesy. I thought starting very basic was a good thing.
 

kdnxdr

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IP is challenging for me. I think it's because I have lived in many different places in the US and in each location, I found that my annunciation of words adapted to meet whatever the local accent was, varying from way out west to deep south to the midwest, there's a really significant difference. Sometimes I seriously mispronounce words. Also, I am able to speak some Spanish and have many foreign friends, including a French husband. Sheesh! My poor accentuator is probably broken when it comes to speaking clear English.
 

kborsden

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why IP?

Trochaic meter is far more interesting, and more of a challenge...

IP:
I cried myself awake again last night,
in pain and sighed for softness' graceful dream.

TP:
Stop and listen at the gate for noisy
ruckus amid rolling thunder's riot.
 

kdnxdr

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Initially, I tried to establish the emphasis on this thread as being a kind of beginner thread, if allowed. I believe we have a wide spectrum of poets, those that are accomplished and in print and those that dabble in poetry that attend to the AW poetry forums, a fact that I think makes AW a standout for ALL writers.

So, with that in mind, I'm hoping that those that are more advanced will be so kind as to throw in a little sample once in awhile so that the rest of us pups can gnaw on it and get the flavor of the meat.

Then, when we're not so timid to try it ourself, we'll attempt a couple of lines. :welcome:
 

kborsden

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An excerpt from my book:



(I cried)

A single iamb; iambic monometer

(I cried)(a weight)

2 iambs; iambic dimeter – a line featuring 2 metric feet is referred to as bimetric.

(I cried)(my weight)(in pain)

3 iambs; iambic trimeter.

(I cried)(my weight)(in pain)(and sighed)

4 iambs; a tetrametric verse; iambic tetrameter.

(I cried)(myself)(awake)(in pain)(and sighed)

5 iambs; iambic pentameter – the most commonly used and popular metric format for English poetry.

(I cried)(myself)(awake)(at night)(in pain)(and sighed)

6 iambs; iambic hexameter – popular meter in Ancient Greek Hellenistic poetry, despite Greek not being an accented language in the same terms as we understand it in English. The Grecian iamb is/was defined by a short and a long syllable, not the stress/unstress that we use. Equally as odd is the number of Grecian terms we use for English prosody, despite the drastic differences in the actual concept.

(I cried)(myself)(awake)(again)(last night)(in pain)(and sighed)

7 iambs; iambic heptameter (aka septameter). Because of the length of such lines (actually most lines over pentameter) regardless of whatever foot is being used, there must be a natural pause within the line to allow the reader to catch their breath and to maintain the structure. I’ve mentioned the caesura previously in the section on line-breaks. They usually exist in most lines (of any length or metric format) as soft pauses, or soft caesura – but in longer lines will define themselves more because of pace and breathing. As I mentioned in the section on metre, it is also an ideal (and common practice) to get the caesura close to the middle of the line, or have the line paced evenly with 2 caesuras on either side of a longer middle piece. See the caesura noted by |

Pentameter: (I cried)(myself)(awake) | (in pain)(and sighed)

Heptameter:
(I cried)(myself)(awake) | (again)(last night) | (in pain)(and sighed)
Depending on how your reader paces:
(I cried)(myself)(awake)(again) | (last night)(in pain)(and sighed)

Punctuation can help you define or force a caesura, and pace in general: (I cried)(myself) (awake) | (again)(last night), | (in pain)(and sighed).

(I cried)(myself)(awake) | (again)(last night)(in pain) | (and sighed)(for sleep)

8 iambs; iambic octameter – octameter can be overwhelming, but it is also rather effective despite there always being a somewhat breathless (even with multiple caesuras) nature and high pace to it.

We now have an end-stopped line of poetry:

I cried myself awake again last night, in pain and sighed for sleep.
 
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kdnxdr

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I just had a thought, if anyone would like to try......for the beginners amongst us, it might be helpful to actually color differentiate the syllables like a soft color (and black) to show the stress difference because that's really what Iambic Pentameter is really about, I think.
 

kdnxdr

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Awesome info, K! It's a wealth of rich teaching.

But, for a wannabe like me, it's also a bit overwhelming. To eat the whole elephant, you have to start with one bite.

I'm just starting out taking small bites and chewing for flavor.

Please keep your post in, though. Awesome, stuff! Thanks for sharing.
 

kborsden

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Awesome info, K! It's a wealth of rich teaching.

But, for a wannabe like me, it's also a bit overwhelming. To eat the whole elephant, you have to start with one bite.

And that's why I posted it -- 1 iamb on to 8 iambs, one iamb at a time...

Expecting 2 lines of perfect ip is a bit of a harsh push for newbies, but hey, go for it.
 

kdnxdr

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See what I mean....I'm so form-challenged, I didn't even realize what you were proposing. Ugh! It has to be some sort of psychological condition, like a "fear of" kind of thing.....

I'm really getting weak in the knees and butterflies just trying to come up with something that fits the definition I used. It's awful, like performance anxiety! or something.

Anyway, I really do appreciate that you and Norman have made some great contributions for examples and have also included the other info. Thanks!

Ok.....here we go....those that feel like they would like to take a swipe "at it", the floor is open!
 

Norman D Gutter

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A thread to help the newbies learn IP
is quite worthwhile. Congrats on your idea.

a THREAD/ to HELP/ the NEW/ bies LEARN/ i P/
is QUITE/ worth WHILE/ con GRATS/ on YOUR/ i DEA/
 

kborsden

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I'll make one last post as an explanation of what an iamb is:

• iamb = 1 metric foot of 2-syllables/beats– unstressed-stressed, e.g. beneath

and a link to a few general rules of thumb regarding how to recognize the stress pattern.
 
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kdnxdr

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Thank you both, again. I really appreciate your contributions to the thread. K, I copied the info on iambs and the information on the link you provided and put them witht the book I'm reading/studying. I will eventually try my hand at coming up with the two lines of Iambic Pentameter.

K, is your book for sale somewhere?
 

kborsden

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K, is your book for sale somewhere?

It's not finished yet, love, but it will be very soon.

I've written a HUGE chunk of theory and am currently handling form. The book is basically a 'carry-with-me' version of my teaching sheets. I use templates and visual aids to do the 'creative therapy' sessions and poetry classes run and have often been asked if I could/would present my lessons in boo form. So, that's what I'm doing now, converting. I've taught a wide variety of people from many walks of life and a good few are now successfully published poets across several markets (both formal and free verse) -- but the important thing is that everyone 'gets' it, regardless of how they use that theory in practice.

Keep watching my sig for when it is out though...

:D :D
 

kdnxdr

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For the Iambic-challenged, like myself, I found I really do have issues. I started with a blank piece of paper and jotted down random words, as they came. Then I practised saying them outloud, underlining the stressed syllable. I seriously believe I pronounce words helter-skelter and that my pronounciation actually changes according to whatever I feel like doing with the word. I know that, by nature, I have a very strong sense of play that often overrides whatever I'm attempting to do. It's something I'm constantly doing and I think it reflects a very real attitude that I have that not alot gets me too serious. I like being the way that I am but I also know from personal experience, not everyone shares my attitude. :)

I often times find myself incorporating other sounds, or stresses, or other weird talking behavior, like yelling or whispering, when I'm just going about my business. Of course, I squelch it when other people are around, usually. I also have a brother that tends to do the same thing except that he's taken it to a much more sophisticated level in that he can change his accent into a variety of different ethnicisities, all within the same breath, practically. He claims to have a multiple personality disorder but I think it's genius. I've tried to encourage him to take it public because he's got a great sense of humor to go with it.

Now I really do feel like I need some kind of therapy. Anyone have a recommendation for diction intervention?

Thank you, Norman, that was really helpful.
 
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kdnxdr

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dic·tion

   /ˈdɪk
thinsp.png
ʃən/ Show Spelled[dik-shuh
thinsp.png
n] Show IPA
noun 1. style of speaking or writing as dependent upon choice of words: good diction.

2. the accent, inflection, intonation, and speech-sound quality manifested by an individual speaker, usually judged in terms of prevailing standards of acceptability; enunciation.

Dictionary.com


(For those of us who are struggling with this issue. (me))
 

kdnxdr

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Maybe poor diction was why some people were referred to as having a "mush mouth? They weren't considered to be using the acceptable standard of diction when speaking?

I was thinking....it seems to me that if a person were to practise reading iambic pentameter aloud, it would, in fact, help with their diction.

Anyone have a conteporary poet they would recommend that would be a good example of using iambic pentameter? Any good books that would have lists of word that have their pronounciation broken down? Like a drill book of sorts?
 
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kborsden

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Anyone have a conteporary poet they would recommend that would be a good example of using iambic pentameter?

Me.

The only reason you're having difficulty with this, is because you think/believe it is complicated, high-brow, possibly even academic. It's not. If you can't see past the terminology, maybe this will help. Truth is, the English language has a natural soft-hard ebb and flow to it, regardless of accent and dialect. Hence why iambic metre is the most popular metric format for poetry, because it's also the easiest and only requires minor tweaking to become maintained and consistent. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong, plain and simple.

Words on their own have a very minor emphasis catagorisation unless they consist of more than 1 syllable, but even then they rely on their surrounding words to define metre. It's words in succession and in relation to each other that defines where the emphasis is placed. All it boils down to is the volume that is applied to whichever syllable. You will naturally articulate certain vowels over others, this will stress or emphasise those regardless off accent. This is the middle-ground in formal verse and ideological metre. It doesn't matter if your reader pulls out a few anapaests, this is a natural distortion and the result of differing accents. However, if the line/verse is primarily iambic (see the link in last post), the soft-hard emphasis will force the rest of the line to comply. Punctuation can pace your verse and also effect the fluidity of metre in this sense; it can create irregularity and distortions forcing an anapaest into a headless iamb and a trochee, but can also smooth the verse out by setting a caesura.

In any case, metre is predominantly subjective, but you as the poet can lay down a metric foundation through dramatic tone, punctuation, register and word order -- of which word order and choice are the most important. I linked in my last post on the subject to an answer I gave Jen on how to note such emphases. It still rings true. Ignoring prefix and suffix, ask what the root is of your word, where do you articulate the word, actually form it -- there is the emphasis, the volume of that word, theoretically. It's all easily influenced and doesn't take any skill other than the recognition of volume. Don't panic, just write whatever, post it, and we can review how words can be changed, swapped or reordered. You can't learn this stuff without doing it and failing a few times, or editing many times.
 
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kdnxdr

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Me.

The only reason you're having difficulty with this, is because you think/believe it is complicated, high-brow, possibly even academic. It's not. If you can't see past the terminology, maybe this will help. Truth is, the English language has a natural soft-hard ebb and flow to it, regardless of accent and dialect. Hence why iambic metre is the most popular metric format for poetry, because it's also the easiest and only requires minor tweaking to become maintained and consistent. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong, plain and simple.

Words on their own have a very minor emphasis catagorisation unless they consist of more than 1 syllable, but even then they rely on their surrounding words to define metre. It's words in succession and in relation to each other that defines where the emphasis is placed. All it boils down to is the volume that is applied to whichever syllable. You will naturally articulate certain vowels over others, this will stress or emphasise those regardless off accent. This is the middle-ground in formal verse and ideological metre. It doesn't matter if your reader pulls out a few anapaests, this is a natural distortion and the result of differing accents. However, if the line/verse is primarily iambic (see the link in last post), the soft-hard emphasis will force the rest of the line to comply. Punctuation can pace your verse and also effect the fluidity of metre in this sense; it can create irregularity and distortions forcing an anapaest into a headless iamb and a trochee, but can also smooth the verse out by setting a caesura.

In any case, metre is predominantly subjective, but you as the poet can lay down a metric foundation through dramatic tone, punctuation, register and word order -- of which word order and choice are the most important. I linked in my last post on the subject to an answer I gave Jen on how to note such emphases. It still rings true. Ignoring prefix and suffix, ask what the root is of your word, where do you articulate the word, actually form it -- there is the emphasis, the volume of that word, theoretically. It's all easily influenced and doesn't take any skill other than the recognition of volume. Don't panic, just write whatever, post it, and we can review how words can be changed, swapped or reordered. You can't learn this stuff without doing it and failing a few times, or editing many times.


Cool stuff.
Very helpful.

I'm still working on my two lines.
 

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Hi. My real name is Cathy. I'm new to posting here. Not new, however, to reading many many (think: hundreds of hours of) threads on this forum, going (6+) years, on and off, back.

Still, it feels like I'm ambushing. Sorry. :(

Here's my humble heroically-couplety offering to this awesome iambic pentameter thread:

Though try they may to render it confined,
Restrictions cannot help but spur the mind.
 

kdnxdr

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Hi BTermite,

Welcome! I'm so glad you came out of "hiding" and I'm so thrilled that this little thread lured you out into the open! Thank you so much for joining the "talk" and sharing your 2 lines of iambic pentameter. Love it. You're much braver than me and I've played around here at AWpoetry forums for about 7 years now. :)