The next big thing

missesdash · Nov 21, 2012

@Windcutter

Well in my paranormal the story starts right after she discovered her ~abilities~ and the plot revolves around her ancestry and why she is what she is and why so many people are looking to kill her. And then she learns she is ~totally destined~ to be ~special~ so it's a classic (reluctant) hero's quest. First of four books.

The narrative and the characters are different, but it's still "u must save us, girl who doesn't kno we exist!!"

I'm probably making it sound really horrible haha. I just mean that the story skeleton is really familiar to anyone who reads fantasy. I won't be surprised if my agency's suggested revision keeps the characters, setting and concept but overhauls the actual plot. We shall see.

Fuchsia Groan · Nov 21, 2012

Windcutter said:
I just love this trope, I guess. An ordinary girl waking into a dangerous, exciting, completely new world--and discovering she is so much more than she thought.

I think that trope will never go away because it's basically a metaphor for puberty, coming of age, etc. (Of course, you can write about someone discovering powers at any age, but it's such a perennial in YA.) And in my planned book the powers are actually linked to sexual maturation and kinda embarrassing, and they're very circumscribed, far from "super." That's my lame attempt to put a new twist on the theme, but this may not be the right time for it...

Maybe I should write my book about ice skating on Mars instead. SF is hot, but what about figure skating? Hot, genetically enhanced guy who can do quintuple axels?

Oh, wait. That's a special power again ...

Speaking as a reader, I'm definitely bored of Chosen One stories. But a book about a realistic, warts-and-all teen who just happens to have special abilities -- that I'd read.

Windcutter · Nov 21, 2012

missesdash said:
I'm probably making it sound really horrible haha. I just mean that the story skeleton is really familiar to anyone who reads fantasy. I won't be surprised if my agency's suggested revision keeps the characters, setting and concept but overhauls the actual plot. We shall see.

I'll say classic is classic for a reason. If you take some hot new book in this genre, chances are it follows the same structure.

I'm actually hard pressed to remember some, say, YA fantasy series without MC coming into a new power. GRACELING maybe, though it's a stand alone. It has a "competent hero".

Actually, I don't mind finishing & subbing the contemp/thriller first, because it's been calling to me, but I keep hearing how it's so much better to debut with a series. I actually know only one author who started with non-contemp standalones and has a great agent and all that--AW's own Gretchen McNeil. I love her books, so I follow her publishing history. She had a paranormal/horror out, then a mystery/thriller, totally unrelated to the previous one, and only now there is a series announcement on goodreads. For the rest, it seems to be all about a trilogy or least a two-parter.

Fuchsia Groan said:
I think that trope will never go away because it's basically a metaphor for puberty, coming of age, etc. (Of course, you can write about someone discovering powers at any age, but it's such a perennial in YA.) And in my planned book the powers are actually linked to sexual maturation and kinda embarrassing, and they're very circumscribed, far from "super." That's my lame attempt to put a new twist on the theme, but this may not be the right time for it...

Maybe I should write my book about ice skating on Mars instead. SF is hot, but what about figure skating? Hot, genetically enhanced guy who can do quintuple axels?

Well, if he could do them since kindergarten, it's not sudden! That will save him.

I don't mind the traditional Chosen One at all. It's also fine with me if it's a superpower--if the world is so dangerous that even a superpower is not enough.

missesdash · Nov 21, 2012

I know lots of writers who debuted with a single book, they're all contemporary. I hadn't heard a series is better. More that it's nice if the possibility is there. And unless you kill everyone off, it usually is.

In short, if you're going to stress, I'd place genre over series potential in importance.

Windcutter · Nov 21, 2012

missesdash said:
I know lots of writers who debuted with a single book, they're all contemporary. I hadn't heard a series is better. More that it's nice if the possibility is there. And unless you kill everyone off, it usually is.

In short, if you're going to stress, I'd place genre over series potential in importance.

Contemporary, yes, that's the key word. But did anyone debut with a contemporary and then switched to a fantasy or paranormal series later?

I wouldn't even stress over genre--since I put my paranormal on the backburner--if I didn't discover that bit of info about NO coming into powers whatsoever. Because pretty much everything I write within the SF/fantasy frame involves that, so if it's an incredibly tough sell and a current no-no, then I'm left with a bunch of standalone contemporary/thrillers. Or maybe they are contemp/suspense. Or contemp/mysteries. Something like that. And a crazy SF thriller about parallel worlds that has MC murdering people in cold blood.

Tolstoyce · Nov 21, 2012

Fuchsia Groan said:
I think that trope will never go away because it's basically a metaphor for puberty, coming of age, etc. (Of course, you can write about someone discovering powers at any age, but it's such a perennial in YA.) And in my planned book the powers are actually linked to sexual maturation and kinda embarrassing, and they're very circumscribed, far from "super." That's my lame attempt to put a new twist on the theme, but this may not be the right time for it...

Essentially, it's almost like they're saying, "We don't want any more Hero's Journey." Because the whole realizing-you-had-powers-you-never-knew-about thing is integral to the Hero's Journey, and nearly every story follows the Hero's Journey arc (if you subscribe to Campbell's theory, that is). My series is similar--she discovers she has this power just at the point where childhood is dissolving and adolescence is forcing her to look at the world from a new, darker perspective. There's a reason this trope is used often. People can identify with this kind of thing, especially teenagers.

Fuchsia Groan said:
Speaking as a reader, I'm definitely bored of Chosen One stories. But a book about a realistic, warts-and-all teen who just happens to have special abilities -- that I'd read.

Yay! This is exactly what I'm trying to achieve with my series. Pimples, braces, insecurities, doesn't pick up on her "new powers" as quickly or easily as the others who have similar powers, etc.

Liosse de Velishaf · Nov 21, 2012

I don't see any reason fantasy has to involve a Chosen One. Plenty of non-Fantasy YA books get away with not having their characters save the world, and tons of UF does as well.

Tolstoyce · Nov 21, 2012

Liosse de Velishaf said:
I don't see any reason fantasy has to involve a Chosen One. Plenty of non-Fantasy YA books get away with not having their characters save the world, and tons of UF does as well.

But then, discovering you possess powers or something like that doesn't necessarily mean you save the world. A lot of authors take it in that direction, but the trope can be played with in a variety of ways.

Windcutter · Nov 21, 2012

Liosse de Velishaf said:
I don't see any reason fantasy has to involve a Chosen One. Plenty of non-Fantasy YA books get away with not having their characters save the world, and tons of UF does as well.

But you know the funny thing? The market is very tough for a book in which MC comes into special abilities or discovers she is a super hero (pretty much quoting the source here), yet not a word is spoken regarding non-SFF, non-paranormal stories. I mean, if I write about a female teenage James Bond who is a one girl assault team and saving the world twice during every vacation while also snagging the hottest boyz ever, I guess it won't be a problem

according to those new market rules. She is a computer genius, a martial arts prodigy, shoots a heart out of a ten of hearts with her back turned and eyes closed, but she can't suddenly see ghosts, so it's okay.

Okay, on a more serious note, it's not just about a Chosen One. A scenario in which MC is not allowed to discover any fantastic powers eliminates a whole lot of fish out of water plots. Stories in which a normal MC enters a fantastic world and becomes an important player in it. If she can't have any special powers, to put it simply, it will become either a specific type of survival plot or she will have to rely on her supernatural hot LI way too much. It also eliminates a lot of "you do not know what you are" plots, because those usually involve either giving MC a power or making them into a passive key element/source of energy/whatever.

I mean, I kind of know why it seems overdone--because it's an incredibly popular trope--but ruling it out seems to be incredibly limiting. It's like saying, we don't want gorgeous boys as love interests anymore.

Liosse de Velishaf · Nov 21, 2012

Tolstoyce said:
But then, discovering you possess powers or something like that doesn't necessarily mean you save the world. A lot of authors take it in that direction, but the trope can be played with in a variety of ways.

Yes, that is the point I was making.

Liosse de Velishaf · Nov 21, 2012

Windcutter said:
But you know the funny thing? The market is very tough for a book in which MC comes into special abilities or discovers she is a super hero (pretty much quoting the source here), yet not a word is spoken regarding non-SFF, non-paranormal stories. I mean, if I write about a female teenage James Bond who is a one girl assault team and saving the world twice during every vacation while also snagging the hottest boyz ever, I guess it won't be a problem according to those new market rules. She is a computer genius, a martial arts prodigy, shoots a heart out of a ten of hearts with her back turned and eyes closed, but she can't suddenly see ghosts, so it's okay.

Okay, on a more serious note, it's not just about a Chosen One. A scenario in which MC is not allowed to discover any fantastic powers eliminates a whole lot of fish out of water plots. Stories in which a normal MC enters a fantastic world and becomes an important player in it. If she can't have any special powers, to put it simply, it will become either a specific type of survival plot or she will have to rely on her supernatural hot LI way too much. It also eliminates a lot of "you do not know what you are" plots, because those usually involve either giving MC a power or making them into a passive key element/source of energy/whatever.

I mean, I kind of know why it seems overdone--because it's an incredibly popular trope--but ruling it out seems to be incredibly limiting. It's like saying, we don't want gorgeous boys as love interests anymore.

I think anybody making statements that rule the trope out as viable is probably stating only a personal opinion, no matter what they may believe they are doing.

TudorRose · Nov 22, 2012

Article in PW about the "YA blockbuster".

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/...y-insiders-talk-young-adult-blockbusters.html

Take-home message (nothing new in this thread, but bears repeating):

While the slush pile will continue to overflow with queries claiming a manuscript to be “better than Twilight,” the panelists continue to seek strong, original stories that don’t capitalize on a previous book’s success. Stimola said that if a book features a rebellious girl facing down a totalitarian government in a post-apocalyptic world, she’s likely to pass: “I’ve done that.”

i.e. aim to set trends, not follow them

Windcutter · Nov 22, 2012

People always say that, and then they keep buying dozens of "Twilight on a train".

Though it makes perfect sense in the light of the recent situation: they want a new hot trend. A new trailblazer.

Another interesting moment is "could easily envision a fully finished book” --this is always cited as one of the typical traits of high concept. People hear it and they imagine the finished product and it wows them and ignites their imagination.

Becca C. · Nov 22, 2012

Windcutter said:
Contemporary, yes, that's the key word. But did anyone debut with a contemporary and then switched to a fantasy or paranormal series later?

C. J. Omololu debuted with a contemp (Dirty Little Secrets) and her latest release is a paranormal/fantasy (Transcendant) with a sequel on the way. She's the only one I can really think of, but I'm sure it happens more often that that.

Windcutter · Nov 23, 2012

Thanks. I guess I just need to stop obsessing and start revising.

Corinne Duyvis · Nov 23, 2012

Windcutter said:
Actually, I don't mind finishing & subbing the contemp/thriller first, because it's been calling to me, but I keep hearing how it's so much better to debut with a series. I actually know only one author who started with non-contemp standalones and has a great agent and all that--AW's own Gretchen McNeil. I love her books, so I follow her publishing history. She had a paranormal/horror out, then a mystery/thriller, totally unrelated to the previous one, and only now there is a series announcement on goodreads. For the rest, it seems to be all about a trilogy or least a two-parter.

FWIW, my debut is also a non-contemp (fantasy) standalone. And I think my agent is pretty spiffy.

Though you may have only been talking about authors who then followed it up with contemporary?

Windcutter said:
Contemporary, yes, that's the key word. But did anyone debut with a contemporary and then switched to a fantasy or paranormal series later?

Hmm. Courtney Summers did three standalone contemporaries before This Is Not a Test, which has zombies... but is also a standalone.

It's kind of hard to judge whether any of that is because it's not recommended, or because that's just how the cards played out for that author. Whatever the case, I think starting your revisions is an excellent plan. Maybe in a few years we'll be citing your unique and sparkly publishing history in these kinds of threads.

Windcutter · Nov 23, 2012

Wow, a fantasy standalone--such a rarity, it seems. It sounds really cool, too.

I actually meant it the other way around: starting with a standalone that's contemporary and then following up with a SFF series. Maybe it's just because I've been watching these genres and not the others, but it seemed like most recent sales were in the form of fantasy/dystopian/paranormal trilogies.

The_Ink_Goddess · Nov 23, 2012

Windcutter said:
Wow, a fantasy standalone--such a rarity, it seems. It sounds really cool, too.

I actually meant it the other way around: starting with a standalone that's contemporary and then following up with a SFF series. Maybe it's just because I've been watching these genres and not the others, but it seemed like most recent sales were in the form of fantasy/dystopian/paranormal trilogies.

though it is more like contemp+zombies. Much more like her previous books than the genre might have you believe.

On the Chosen Ones plots: oh, come on, it's not going to take long for that to cycle around again in a major way, because it's like everybody's fantasy! All fantasy is wish fulfilment to a certain extent, but I think that Chosen One plots are basically all fantasy readers' dream: that idea that You Are Special. Who can resist that?

And, Windcutter, I seriously feel you on the genre front. I'm working on what I think is a pretty high-concept contemp, a horror and a thriller right now and I just want to HURRY UP because goddamn it I'm going to miss the boat!

The_Ink_Goddess · Nov 23, 2012

Windcutter said:
I actually meant it the other way around: starting with a standalone that's contemporary and then following up with a SFF series. Maybe it's just because I've been watching these genres and not the others, but it seemed like most recent sales were in the form of fantasy/dystopian/paranormal trilogies.

Though she didn't exactly do this, the person who springs to mind for me is Josin L. McQuein (AW's brilliant Cyia), who sold her SFF series (Arclight) and then her cotemp standalone(Premeditated) very close together. It was the other way round, but still!

Sage · Nov 24, 2012

Windcutter said:
Contemporary, yes, that's the key word. But did anyone debut with a contemporary and then switched to a fantasy or paranormal series later?

Some AWers did:

Suzanne Young (Naughty List (series) to A Need So Beautiful/Want So Wicked and The Program series)
Bethany Griffin (Handcuffs to Masque/Dance of the Red Death)
Hannah Moskowitz (Break/Invincible Summer to Zombie Tag (MG) and Teeth -- no series yet)

Tolstoyce · Nov 24, 2012

Sage said:
Some AWers did:

Suzanne Young (Naughty List (series) to A Need So Beautiful/Want So Wicked and The Program series)
Bethany Griffin (Handcuffs to Masque/Dance of the Red Death)
Hannah Moskowitz (Break/Invincible Summer to Zombie Tag (MG) and Teeth -- no series yet)

Didn't Libbra Bray also do this? She debuted with a contemporary (Sweet Sixteen #3: Kari), released a fantasy series (Gemma Doyle Trilogy), and I believe she's released both contemporary and fantasy books since. So this type of career is possible.

Corinne Duyvis · Nov 25, 2012

Ohh, Maureen Johnson, too. Wrote various contemporaries, but also Devilish and The Name of the Star, which is first in a series.

(And thank you! Glad you think the book sounds cool.

)

Laer Carroll · Nov 25, 2012

TudorRose said:
... aim to set trends, not follow them

Worth repeating every time this topic comes up.

It makes sense to think about trends and how your work fits in with them, but this should only be one of many considerations a pro thinks about. Time between acceptance and publication averages a year and a half to two years. The publication landscape may look radically different at that time. Your book may then look like another boring copycat.

More important considerations include these.

Is this the best work I can do, or mediocre work which will not help my future?
Does this work excite me to great effort, to stretch my craft and my soul?
Does my book leave open the possibility of a follow-up, maybe even a series?

On that last: one-offs sometimes do that, maybe a year or three down the line when you suddenly get excited about a follow-up the book you thought you'd left forever behind.

Erin · Nov 25, 2012

Windcutter said:
Contemporary, yes, that's the key word. But did anyone debut with a contemporary and then switched to a fantasy or paranormal series later?

That's my plan!

My YA debut is a contemporary (releases July 2013), and I'm currently writing a YA SF series (non-dystopian) that I hope will sell.

Tolstoyce · Nov 25, 2012

Erin said:
That's my plan! My YA debut is a contemporary (releases July 2013), and I'm currently writing a YA SF series (non-dystopian) that I hope will sell.

I have a similar plan, though the contemporary I have in mind is NA. Currently writing a YA fantasy series. Not sure which order they'd be released in, though, if both projects end up published. Just kind of going with the flow and seeing what happens for now.

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