The next big thing

Windcutter · Jun 19, 2015

jtrylch13 said:
So, I'm a little confused. Carroll, you say the SF on shelves around you are few and far between, and then go on to list 4 or 5 kinds of SF you see on shelves and several different titles. There are Sci-Fi stories on the shelves because all of those fit under the Sci-Fi genre, even if they have a contemporary setting, or limited technology. What I think you're trying to say is the "hard" Sci-Fi is not on YA shelves.

But the sheer amount of books also plays a part.
Like, there can be several kinds of YA SF out there, but some of them contain just a few titles or series. Compare it to the amount of vampire/angel books that used to be on the shelves, for example... I can't really provide hard numbers, but it is my strong impression that if I decide to read all the YA books with fairies in them, it would take a long time, but if I decide to read all the books with space ships...

Oh I can have another little experiment.
Goodreads.
A Court of Th0rns and R0ses is a book with fairies but the 'Readers Also Enjoyed' comparison feature gives me secondary world fantasy.
Let's try a modern fantasy.
WINGS is an older book (2009), but then trends are different now. I'll use it. The comparison feature gives me about 10 YA books with fairies and 1 YA paranormal romance that seems to include werewolves but it is unclear whether or not it also includes fairies.

AVALON is a recent (2014) YA SF with space ships. The comparison feature gives me:
1 YA SF with a super vague description but at least it seems to include a space station
1 dystopia about a virtual reality
1 alien invasion
1 paranormal romance with witches
1 post apocalyptic story
1 book described as "reimagining of popular dragon fantasy lore set in a militant future" (I found my next read!)
1 book about superheroes
1 book with time travel
1 dystopia with zombies
6 more YA dystopia novels including one that sounds like a Divergent clone & sadly lacking space ships
1 contemporary crime thriller
2 YA dystopia novels set on a space ship
1 futuristic military story described as "Hogwarts-in-Space"
So out of 19 books only 4 turned out to be somewhat similar

Sage · Jun 19, 2015

I don't think it's any secret that SF didn't take off like vampires or angels. But that's still a lot different from saying that YA SF is being shelved on adult SFF shelves. It's not. YA SF is being published under YA, as shown by all the examples you guys are dropping here. It's not as big as other genres, but it's still being published and shelved in YA. Adult SF is being shelved on SF shelves, and just because a teen might be an MC doesn't mean it's a YA book, or else we'd have the same complaint about fantasy (and I know nobody's going to claim that YA fantasy is being shelved on adult shelves)

It also feels very much like people are saying, "how dare these SF elements get published, but not these SF elements. This one that got published is an 'inferior' SF subgenre, and this was a 'superior' one, but it doesn't count because it's just one series, except for this book and that book too..." Publishers publish what they think people will read and continue publishing what readers buy. If books about spaceships took off the way vampires did, you'd better believe that the YA shelves would be overflowing with them.

FWIW, I specifically saw an agent requesting "hard SF" on twitter during #SFFpit yesterday.

Windcutter · Jun 21, 2015

I think pulblishers are partially to blame for the lack of success YA SF had. To put it very bluntly--they wanted SF to have a dystopian taste because dystopia was everyone's favorite money horse, so they mostly bought what amounted to an extension of dystopia, and when that didn't fly, the rest of the genre went down with it.
At least, that's my impression and the impression of some writers trying to sell non-dystopian SF a while ago. First you are told, nope, you better make your space opera into a dystopia set on a space ship, and then you are told, sorry guys, SF is a dead sell.

I'm not really a connoisseur of hard SF so it's not a personal matter to me or a matter of superiority. It just feels a little off when it comes to proportions of subgenres.

Sage · Jun 21, 2015

That was not my impression when trying to sell non-dystopia SF, and in fact I was told by agents and editors that they were happy I didn't have dystopia in my SF.

Windcutter · Jun 21, 2015

Sage said:
That was not my impression when trying to sell non-dystopia SF, and in fact I was told by agents and editors that they were happy I didn't have dystopia in my SF.

Was dystopia doing well at that time?
Right now I'm not even sure where SF sits market-wise--one agent requesting "hard SF", another one saying it's a super hard sell... I think YA fantasy might be having a somewhat easier time because fantasy as a whole is more friendly to new readers. One has to like it, of course, but it's no wonder a big part of YA secondary world fantasy has so many princes and dresses and so few complicated spec elements--it basically becomes a slightly aged-up fairy tale.

Sage · Jun 21, 2015

The dystopias-in-space that were big when dystopia was big (Across the Universe & Glow, for example) were coming out when this thread was started, predicting SF would be big next. They had already been acquired, probably 2 years before that. I don't remember when dystopia stopped being queriable. I wrote that SF in 2012.

jtrylch13 · Jun 23, 2015

And because I'm bored and can't work on my MS until my computer is fixed, I'm going to do a little Windcutter-esque

experiment. I'll look at some recent YA Sci-Fi's I've read on Amazon and see what comparative titles I get:

The Chaos by Nalo Hopkinson (2012) - I wouldn't call this hard sic-fi. It has contemporary setting and never explains why all the strange sic-fi stuff happens - Comparative Titles: Sister Mine by Nalo Hopkinson, Unexpected Stories by Octavia Butler, Akata Witch by Nnedi Okorafor - there are more but it looks like it's selecting authors and stories based on black authors that write sic-fi. I've also looked at some of these books to buy, so not sure how much that plays into the selection.

Entangled by Amy Rose Capetta (2013? says reprint) This is definitely a space sci-fi, one I really enjoyed BTW. Comparative Titles: Unmade by Amy Rose Capetta (sequel), The Winners Curse by Marie Rutkoski (dystopia?), The Orphan Queen by Jodi Meadows (Fantasy), Kiss of Deception by Mary E. Pearson (Fantasy) and Afterworlds by Scott Westerfeld (Paranormal/Contemporary)

The Taken (2013) by Erin Bowman (nots sure how to classify this one. Sic-fi? Dystopia?) I haven't read it yet. Comparative Titles: Frozen, Forged, stolen by Erin Bowman (sequels), The taking by Kimberly Derting (Sci-Fi in Contemporary setting), After the End by Amy Plum (not sure if this is Sci-fi in contemporary setting, or just a contemporary thriller)

So anyway, I could go on, but that was slightly depressing. I remember I had a hard time finding space sic-fi's when I was looking for them since I'm writing one. Maybe that's a good thing *she says optimistically* because mine will break new ground? Or bring it back? Or, I got nothing . . .

On the upside, I found a bunch of books I want to read.

Sage · Jun 23, 2015

My analysis of what Amazon considers "comparative titles" is that they tend to be more related to when the title was released, if it's spec fic or contemporary, or if the author is the same. That's because it's actually telling you what people who bought one book also bought. Since readers of YA SF also are probably readers of dystopia and fantasy and other spec fic genres and subgenres, Amazon won't necessarily give you SF to SF recommendations, unless they're by the same author.

jtrylch13 · Jun 24, 2015

Yeah, I know Sage. Forgot to include that little caveat. Also not sure how much my past purchases and activity play into it either, since a lot of the recommended titles were ones I had on my wishlist and/or had looked at previously. But I did have some difficulty finding books about space related YA SF no matter where I have looked. Maybe there's a market there, or maybe there just isn't enough reader interest.

triceretops · Jun 24, 2015

It looks like YA will be holding its own this summer and fall. At least with movie adaptions.

http://www.mybookishlife.com/

That, according to Ramona Wray.

Niiicola · Jul 22, 2015

I'm guessing this has been noted before, but it's crazy how many books lately are titled THE [ADJECTIVE] [NOUN] OF [QUIRKY NAME]. I guess this is the new iteration of "daughter of" and "things with bone" and "girl." So strange how titles have trends too.

triceretops · Jul 22, 2015

Niiicola said:
I'm guessing this has been noted before, but it's crazy how many books lately are titled THE [ADJECTIVE] [NOUN] OF [QUIRKY NAME]. I guess this is the new iteration of "daughter of" and "things with bone" and "girl." So strange how titles have trends too.

Ain't that the truth. I'm totally guilty of "The Girl Who, The Girl That, The Girl And, The Girl They..."

jtrylch13 · Jul 22, 2015

I've been seeing a lot of titles with "The Girl who/with" lately. And I've been noticing a lot of titles with "star" in the name, which may be because "star" is on my radar since there's a "star" in my latest title.

Becca C. · Jul 22, 2015

Niiicola said:
I'm guessing this has been noted before, but it's crazy how many books lately are titled THE [ADJECTIVE] [NOUN] OF [QUIRKY NAME]. I guess this is the new iteration of "daughter of" and "things with bone" and "girl." So strange how titles have trends too.

I notice this constantly, it drives me nuts! Especially THE ADJECTIVE NOUN OF QUIRKY NAME. Hey, that's a great title...

The one that gets on my nerves the most is THE [NOUN] OF YOU AND ME titles. They sound so awkward to me. My mind just corrects it to OUR [NOUN]. So much simpler! But so much less trendy. Sigh.

ETA: The exception to my dislike of these titles is THE SACRED LIES OF MINNOW BLY. Partially because I love that book, and I like the way the title bounces off the tongue. And Minnow is just the best name ever.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 23, 2015

I don't mind it as an abstraction for a title. It's just there are so dang many, and the crappy ones overshadow the ones I think are actually decent.

I do really hate that second template in becca's post, though.

Fuchsia Groan · Jul 23, 2015

SO many "you and me" titles. Also, there's definitely a trend of titles with the word "end" in them.

Becca C. said:
ETA: The exception to my dislike of these titles is THE SACRED LIES OF MINNOW BLY. Partially because I love that book, and I like the way the title bounces off the tongue. And Minnow is just the best name ever.

It is! Though I was waiting throughout for an explanation of why they named her Minnow or whether it was just a nickname that stuck. (It is adorable, but more on a kid than a 45-year-old.

)

I'm still noticing creative takes on SF among the '16 debuts — often from smaller publishers like Flux and Sky Pony. Excited to read those books!

Becca C. · Jul 23, 2015

I think Minnow could age well. I could see it suiting a gentle, soft-spoken 45-year-old mom as well as it would suit a little kid or an angsty teen

Could always shorten it to Minn or Minnie as well!

triceretops · Jul 23, 2015

I really asked for it when I named a book, Diane Nine and the Fusion Machine.

"Hey, Chris, that's the name of a literary agent, donch know? Also, it sounds YA SF, when clearly it's an adult espionage thriller. Sorry."

Wanna talk about fail on all counts? I felt like packin' it in.

Niiicola · Sep 11, 2015

OK, I'm calling the next trend: TITLES WITH STARS IN THEM.

(says the girl with "starlight" in her MS title, somewhat shamefacedly)

jtrylch13 · Sep 11, 2015

Niicola - You are so right! And it is frustrating because my title is THEY CHOSE THE STARS. Every time I see another "star" title I just grrrr in frustration. No! That's my thing!

Sage · Sep 11, 2015

I purposefully didn't bump this thread before, but I've seen a lot of attention given to pirate novels lately.

And good news for anyone waiting on dystopia to come back, the #1 requested book in Pitch To Publication was a dystopia. The agents didn't seem to have a problem with it at all.

triceretops · Sep 11, 2015

Niiicola said:
OK, I'm calling the next trend: TITLES WITH STARS IN THEM.

(says the girl with "starlight" in her MS title, somewhat shamefacedly)

Tri-Guilty...Planet Janitor; Custodian of the Stars

KateSmash · Sep 11, 2015

Niiicola said:
OK, I'm calling the next trend: TITLES WITH STARS IN THEM.

(says the girl with "starlight" in her MS title, somewhat shamefacedly)

Fudge buckets. New WIP (total redo of a trunked) is called 'Starless'.

Whatever, dudes. I get a good title like once a decade. I'm riding this title through trend and back.

Sage · Sep 11, 2015

Is it that it's big in published books or big in the slushpiles? The first is good news because it means that it's what agents and editors are thinking of as selling. If you're not seeing it in some sort of slushy context (QLH, contests, etc.), don't worry about it.

Cyia · Sep 11, 2015

Niiicola said:
OK, I'm calling the next trend: TITLES WITH STARS IN THEM.

(says the girl with "starlight" in her MS title, somewhat shamefacedly)

I saw this and had to laugh. *points to last book in sigline.* :tongue

The next big thing

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