What is the Point of Kindle/eBooks?

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Caitlin Black

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I don't know enough about ebooks to talk about DRM and file formats...

However, I am considering getting a Kindle soon. One thing that bothered me in this thread is that with Kindle, I can only buy books supported by Amazon... Not B&N or anything else.

So basically... What happens if I throw myself into a genre with reading abandon, hear about this great book, and then it's only available on B&N, not Amazon? And what if the print book isn't available in Australia?

I mention this because the main main reason I want an ereader is for AWers' books. A very large portion of them aren't available in Australia in print, which sucks, but what can I do about it? Download the ebooks, or order the print books online from America/UK/Canada I suppose.

Now, I do love print books, but I am aware of the advantages of an ereader, which is why I'm asking this question before I blindly go out and purchase a Kindle. (The Nook isn't even available in Australia, as far as I know.)

Thoughts?
 

kuwisdelu

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I don't know enough about ebooks to talk about DRM and file formats...

However, I am considering getting a Kindle soon. One thing that bothered me in this thread is that with Kindle, I can only buy books supported by Amazon... Not B&N or anything else.

So basically... What happens if I throw myself into a genre with reading abandon, hear about this great book, and then it's only available on B&N, not Amazon? And what if the print book isn't available in Australia?

I mention this because the main main reason I want an ereader is for AWers' books. A very large portion of them aren't available in Australia in print, which sucks, but what can I do about it? Download the ebooks, or order the print books online from America/UK/Canada I suppose.

Now, I do love print books, but I am aware of the advantages of an ereader, which is why I'm asking this question before I blindly go out and purchase a Kindle. (The Nook isn't even available in Australia, as far as I know.)

Thoughts?

If you don't mind reading on an LCD screen, you can try to find a cheap Android tablet on which you can download both the Kindle and Nook apps. An iPad would also work, of course, and would also give access to iBooks.

It's *possible* to buy the book from B&N and read it on a Kindle, but you'll have to remove the DRM and convert it to .mobi format, which may to may not be a trivial task depending on your tech-savviness.
 

Caitlin Black

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Android tablet with apps, huh?

Don't know anything about them. Isn't Android what the Smart Phones use? I've never used that...

Basically, the big points for me are access to the largest number of books (whatever course I need to take) plus a decent screen and an actual keyboard on the bottom of it.

A salesperson showed me how to get the digital keyboard up on the basic Kindle, and it looked so awkward to type on! Like, arrow left, right, up, down, just to get to the right letter, then enter, then more arrowing...

No thanks. I want a physical keyboard please.

Do these Android tablets come with keyboards on the bottom of them?
 

Al Stevens

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You can strip the DRM. There are programs available to do that.
 

kuwisdelu

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Android tablet with apps, huh?

Don't know anything about them. Isn't Android what the Smart Phones use? I've never used that...

Like iOS, Android is an operating system for both smartphones and tablets. There are plenty of tablets these days that use Android, though the often-asked question is whether they measure up to the iPad. The typical answer is "no," but there are some that are cheaper and do offer a good experience nonetheless (and most will include access to both the Amazon Kindle and B&N Nook apps that will offer you access to both bookstores).

Basically, the big points for me are access to the largest number of books (whatever course I need to take) plus a decent screen and an actual keyboard on the bottom of it.

A salesperson showed me how to get the digital keyboard up on the basic Kindle, and it looked so awkward to type on! Like, arrow left, right, up, down, just to get to the right letter, then enter, then more arrowing...

No thanks. I want a physical keyboard please.

That is the lowest-end Kindle, which doesn't have a touchscreen and virtual keyboard. Virtual keyboards via touch screens can be pretty decent, at least for basic entry. And on the iPad, for example, it is nearly the size of an ordinary keyboard, allowing touch typing.

Do you want a keyboard to better enable you to look up and read ebooks more easily, or for a browsing/writing/tablet experience? If it's the former, the touchscreen Kindle or Nook should be fine for your use. If it's the latter, you will want the Fire, Nook Tablet, or another Android tablet, or an iPad. I don't believe the Fire has Bluetooth, and I'm not sure about the Nook Tablet, but most other Android tablets and certainly the iPad support Bluetooth keyboards for typing on a full-size keyboard whenever you like. I wouldn't recommend a tablet smaller 9-10" for touchscreen writing though.

Do these Android tablets come with keyboards on the bottom of them?

See above. Few tablets these days will come with a physical keyboard, but any tablet will come with virtual keyboard that's far better than what was demoed to you with the low-end Kindle. Whether that's enough for you is a far different question, but a true virtual keyboard (especially a larger-size one like on an iPad or any other 9-10" tablet) is a far, far cry from what you tried out.

Okay... I was under the impression that most of them will have DRM though?

Amazon, B&N, and Apple all have DRM on their ebooks, yes. That's not so much their own fault as much as the fault of the publishers with whom they've made agreements. There are many sources of DRM-less ebooks, but they may not offer the books in which you're interested (which is often my own case).

Seeing as Apple is largely responsible for the music industry giving up DRM, I'm hoping that down the road, they will attempt to force the publishing industry's hand with ebooks as well. However, as things currently are, they have far less influence than they did with music. Amazon is a large force, and I have very little faith that they will strong-arm the industry into DRM-less ebooks. I hope to be proven wrong, of course, but those are my current feelings.

In the long run, DRM is not sustainable, and I hope the industry will realize that. It is evil and undesirable in the market. I can only hope that becomes obvious to them eventually, but I expect that Amazon, B&N, or Apple will have to force their hands before they accept it.
 

Caitlin Black

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Hmm, okay.

Well, I can rule out an iPad. From what I've seen of them, they're too big for me (for portability and use), the way I imagine I'll use a tablet. Plus, too expensive.
 

STKlingaman

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the point?

For some large corporation to make money.
Push out the small independent publishers.

I love the idea of a paperback. Read it, love it
pass it on to a friend. If you don't love it, you
can still pass it on, donate it to a library or school
or sell it in a yard sale for .50 cents.


... but what the heck.
things change, not always for the better though.
 
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Becky Black

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the point?

For some large corporation to make money.
Push out the small independent publishers.

...

Sorry, I think you're totally wrong there. It's small presses who are embracing ebooks, specialising in them and leading the way. And in many cases booming as a result. It's mostly the big publishers who are unable to figure out what to do about ebooks - with a few notable exceptions, like Mills & Boon, romance publishers in the UK.

Now the small independent book shops as opposed to huge corporate retailers like Amazon, that's a different story. But that would be happening if ebooks didn't exist at all, so you can't blame ebooks for that either. They're just a new and additonal factor in that process.
 
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*headdesk*

Jesus, do I have to spell everything out?

People were complaining about Kindles not reading epub format.

Well...don't buy books in epub format, then. Buy them in .prc, .mobi or .pdf.

Or do what I did with all my Sony-compatible files. Just convert them all. All 400+ of them.
 

Becky Black

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Basically, the big points for me are access to the largest number of books (whatever course I need to take) plus a decent screen and an actual keyboard on the bottom of it.

I've got the Kindle with the keyboard (they call it the Kindle Keyboard now - imaginative these Amazon dudes, aren't they?) and it is definitely better if you want to make notes and do a lot of searching of the Kindle store from the device. There's a on screen bit for accessing various symbols and even just for that it's a PITA, so for all input it would be a 'mare. Sounds like you definitely want the keyboard one.

Amazon certainly have a huge range - including loads of free classics, and often freebie promotions on newer books.

Basically a good test to see if it's worth your while getting an ereader, take the last ten books you bought/or ten unbought books from your To Read list (assuming they're the type you'd buy as ebooks anyway!) and go and see if they're available in a wide range of formats from a wide range of retailers. If you could have easily obtained most or all of the books at a decent price from various sources and in various formats, then you can assume that the books you want are generally going to be available to you and your ereader.

Having a particular device doesn't mean you're stuck with buying from the retailer of that device. You should be able to buy the book in the format for it at other retailers or direct from the publisher's site.

There are also programs for converting from one format to another. I hear people rave about Calibre, though I haven't had to do that stuff myself, so I couldn't comment on that.
 
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There are also programs for converting from one format to another. I hear people rave about Calibre, though I haven't had to do that stuff myself, so I couldn't comment on that.

It's a very easy to use program.
 

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I do a lot of reading on my iPad. It's not as good as a Kindle or other E-ink readers (I'm interested in Kobo and Nook...) because it's a proper computery screen and is completely useless if the light hits it directly (grrr!) but it's really convenient when I'm commuting, it's early morning so I don't know what my name is, let alone what I want to read on the train.

iPad lets me highlight, bookmark, write notes about things... Things I wouldn't do to a paper book! I love that about it. I can highlight a particularly good bit of text and quickly refer back to it when I want. Oh and if I don't know a word or the precise meaning, tap on it and tada! dictionary!

I do love paper books but now I only buy them when I've already read the ebook and loved it so much I want the paper version to hold and kiss and nibble on...
I live in a tiny studio too and already have too many boxes of books, I need to stop acquiring them...
 

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I don't know if anyone has touched on this yet, but my biggest question about e-books is (if books do eventually become digital only and the physical book goes the way of the Dodo bird) how in the world is an author supposed to do a book signing?
 

Becky Black

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There is this thing called a "Kindlegraph". But obviously that's not quite the same. I do like my signed books (mostly Pratchetts.)

Maybe in the future we'll see more author readings and Q&A sessions rather than signings. Maybe authors will prefer this since that's less RSI-inducing!
 

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I don't know if anyone has touched on this yet, but my biggest question about e-books is (if books do eventually become digital only and the physical book goes the way of the Dodo bird) how in the world is an author supposed to do a book signing?


Same way some people give away their books? You have a book card (i.e. a card with promotional art, a blurb, and a code which you can use to download the book) which the author can sign, it's the same idea as the ones they use for iTunes.

Some of them are already quite beautiful.
 

jr7110

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Same way some people give away their books? You have a book card (i.e. a card with promotional art, a blurb, and a code which you can use to download the book) which the author can sign, it's the same idea as the ones they use for iTunes.

Some of them are already quite beautiful.

That is a great idea - I was wondering more about the absence of brick and mortar stores because if there are no bookstores, there will be no physical venues for a book tour where the signings could take place, even with a book card.
 

Al Stevens

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That is a great idea - I was wondering more about the absence of brick and mortar stores because if there are no bookstores, there will be no physical venues for a book tour where the signings could take place, even with a book card.
Rent a kiosk for a day in the mall.
How about an autograph app? Depends on how sensitive the touch screens are. Or will be.
 

FranOnTheEdge

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Wow! I just posted the question a day ago, and already 4 pages! That's amazing! It seems then that this is a subject that's interesting to many of us.
I'm glad, I was hoping someone would know more than I did about it - it looks like everyone does. Lol!
And it's fascinating to see what people think of them, such a lot of interesting information, it's great!
Those of you who use eBooks (of whatever format) have made me look on them with different eyes, I am more hopeful, less dismissive at least.
I don't have enough money to just dash out and buy one, but I will at least be open to looking at them, seeing what they are like in reality – instead of dismissing them because of the advert.
If it's true that you get lots of books free with them when you first buy the machine – can you choose what you get? Or is that a set thing, like Shakespeare, Dickens, Trollope, dictionaries and thesaurus?

I would hate to get an American English dictionary and not an British English one, (being British myself) although I wouldn't mind both. That would be useful. In MS Word you get both, and I have a few paperback and hardback ones too. I would prefer a Roget's over some other kind of thesaurus, but again don't mind others as well.

Obviously the free fiction would be only classics that are out of copywrite – yes? No?

On the difference between Kindle and other eBook forms, it is a pity that the betamax wars look set to continue in this fashion, and a shame that compatibility doesn't go both ways, did someone say there was a way to get around this? Something about stripping out Digital Rights Management – I think? Is that legal? I think someone said that it's okay if you do it for yourself, but not if you then pass the stripped books on to others?
Is the difference then just the titles that each format has available? (as well as the difference between the actual machines?)

I also notice people saying that they love the ability eBooks give them to just buy whatever they feel like and be reading it in seconds... sounds okay but doesn't that cost an absolute fortune?
Even second hand I only buy a book very, very occasionally. And I have to sneak it into the flat and hope he won't notice – but that's another entirely different issue. Lol.

And that's a very interesting question about book signing....

Another question:
My first book shows the impression of a missing page in a diary – I'd prefer to see such things, than try to keep them in my head while reading on...

So, do eReaders still give you cover art? And illustrations? A diagram of the murder scene? A family tree showing why a killer might have bumped off so many family members? A timetable of the alibis and suspects??? The ability to see what the torn, partially readable letter the dead girl had in her pocket actually looks like?
 

ShadowFox

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Obviously the free fiction would be only classics that are out of copywrite – yes? No?

No, actually not, (assuming you are American). If you have Amazon prime, they offer a lending library with 5,000 modern books.

Even if not, there are a lot of publishing companies that offer books for free for a short period, in order to promote new releases.

So... of course, you can get pretty much any classic book for free, but you can get a lot of modern books free.

I think kindle comes with a dictionary to look up words in the book.


Something about stripping out Digital Rights Management – I think? Is that legal? I think someone said that it's okay if you do it for yourself, but not if you then pass the stripped books on to others?

It depends which jurisdiction you are in. It is legal within the UK to get around DRM for your own private use. Not sure about the American situation.

You can google how to do it.



Is the difference then just the titles that each format has available? (as well as the difference between the actual machines?)

Different formats can do different things, this is particularly important in the next generation, where you are formatting for magazines. For books, it doesn't make much difference.


I also notice people saying that they love the ability eBooks give them to just buy whatever they feel like and be reading it in seconds... sounds okay but doesn't that cost an absolute fortune?

It depends. There are an awful lot of very cheep books available, but if you are buying bestsellers it can soon add up.

So, do eReaders still give you cover art? And illustrations? A diagram of the murder scene? A family tree showing why a killer might have bumped off so many family members? A timetable of the alibis and suspects??? The ability to see what the torn, partially readable letter the dead girl had in her pocket actually looks like?

We're at the earliest stages of the revolution. Cover art exists, of course, and so does basic black and white art on most devices. Colour devices are coming.

Look forward five years, and I can imagine a time coming where it costs no more to stuff a book full of colour images than it does to have one plain text.
 
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Becky Black

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If it's true that you get lots of books free with them when you first buy the machine – can you choose what you get? Or is that a set thing, like Shakespeare, Dickens, Trollope, dictionaries and thesaurus?

I would hate to get an American English dictionary and not an British English one, (being British myself) although I wouldn't mind both. That would be useful. In MS Word you get both, and I have a few paperback and hardback ones too. I would prefer a Roget's over some other kind of thesaurus, but again don't mind others as well.

With the Kindle you have the dictionaries preloaded and get both and American and British English one. You can set which one to use as the default in the settings.

You don't have other free books preloaded (at least not when I got mine, about a year ago now.) You just go and get whichever ones you want from Amazon or elsewhere. Amazon doesn't presume to preload what they think you should have. And going and downloading some free ones is a good way to get to know how figure it all out without accidentally spending money!

Obviously the free fiction would be only classics that are out of copywrite – yes? No?

I also notice people saying that they love the ability eBooks give them to just buy whatever they feel like and be reading it in seconds... sounds okay but doesn't that cost an absolute fortune?

Even second hand I only buy a book very, very occasionally. And I have to sneak it into the flat and hope he won't notice – but that's another entirely different issue. Lol.

Most of the free books are out of copyright classics, but they also have modern books free, sometimes as temporary special offers, sometimes on a permanent basis. You could easily read for a year without ever buying a book - and that's just from Amazon. There are other sources of free (legally free!) books out there.

And it certainly can be very easy to go nuts buying books... :D I keep a record on a spreadsheet so I don't get a shock when my credit card bill shows up.

Another question:
My first book shows the impression of a missing page in a diary – I'd prefer to see such things, than try to keep them in my head while reading on...

So, do eReaders still give you cover art? And illustrations? A diagram of the murder scene? A family tree showing why a killer might have bumped off so many family members? A timetable of the alibis and suspects??? The ability to see what the torn, partially readable letter the dead girl had in her pocket actually looks like?

That's all still definitely in flux. You get the cover art with a Kindle book, but on the Kindle itself it's obviously not in colour. Illustrations likewise are tricky. Any book that has a lot of art or photographs I'd still buy in print, because the ebook just can't compete with that yet.
 

DancingMaenid

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I have the Kindle app for my Android tablet, and that's really convenient for being able to read my books on the go. I like the actual reading experience better on the Kindle, though, and the Kindle's battery life is much better (seriously, I love that I can go weeks without charging my Kindle).

My 2nd gen Kindle does have folders ("collections"). There is only one level. You cannot create sub-folders. However, I think you can add a book to multiple collections - so it's more of a tag than a folder.

The only bad thing is, I think you can only create and manage collections through a wi-fi connection. I've never connected my Kindle to wi-fi, so I haven't been able to do anything with them. Maybe I'll give it a try, though.

If it's true that you get lots of books free with them when you first buy the machine – can you choose what you get? Or is that a set thing, like Shakespeare, Dickens, Trollope, dictionaries and thesaurus?

You don't get any pre-loaded on the Kindle. That may be different for other e-readers. My Acer tablet with Android actually came with a couple free ebooks (but I'm sure I could delete them if I wanted).

But it's pretty easy to find free content in the Kindle store.

You do get two dictionaries. I have the OED as my default, but there's an American one, too. No thesaurus. I haven't looked into whether you can download one.

Obviously the free fiction would be only classics that are out of copywrite – yes? No?

Not necessarily. A lot of free ebooks are classics, and that's mainly what I've gotten.

There's a lot of other free stuff, but it is limited. I'd say most of it is from unknown writers, and a lot is romance. So if you're a romance or erotica fan, you could find some gems. And sometimes Amazon offers free books as a promotion.

There's other stuff, too, but you have to be a little careful because a lot of free books are actually free samples of longer books. It's not always clear from the product description, so I usually read the user reviews. Of course, since it's free, the only real cost is maybe some inconvenience if a sample isn't what you wanted.

Is the difference then just the titles that each format has available? (as well as the difference between the actual machines?)

Pretty much, I think. Though, I find that a lot if not most ebooks are offered in multiple formats. But you may not be able to buy all formats from every site. For example, if I want to buy an ebook in Kindle format, I usually need to wait until the publisher puts the book on Amazon.

The machines themselves can be a little limiting. I love my Kindle, but I do get a little frustrated at times because while it can read things like PDFs, it takes more effort and isn't as smooth or an experience as it is with mobi files.

I also notice people saying that they love the ability eBooks give them to just buy whatever they feel like and be reading it in seconds... sounds okay but doesn't that cost an absolute fortune?

Depends on how many books you buy. Personally, I don't buy that many, and I don't usually buy stuff that I wouldn't have strongly considered buying in paper form, anyway. A lot of the books I have on my Kindle are free, too.

I think you do have to watch how much you spend with digital stuff, because it is easier to spend and impulse buy. I find that more with stuff like music on iTunes, though. I haven't had the problem with ebooks.

So, do eReaders still give you cover art? And illustrations? A diagram of the murder scene? A family tree showing why a killer might have bumped off so many family members? A timetable of the alibis and suspects??? The ability to see what the torn, partially readable letter the dead girl had in her pocket actually looks like?

I think it depends. My Kindle does have cover art, but it's not as prominent and visible as it would be with a physical book. And this is an area where not all e-readers are equal. I haven't gotten any Kindle books that feature illustrations or tables, and I'd be a little hesitant to do so. Also, my Kindle doesn't have color.

But the Nook Color was marketed as something you could use to look at picture books and whatnot, and I think the iPad has also been considered good for more visual books. But it depends on the device and also how the book was converted.

Personally, this is one area where I see e-readers as being a tool but not a replacement. If a book featured illustrations, I would probably buy a paper copy.
 
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