Do you want someone pointing out mistakes in your published works?

NeuroFizz · Nov 16, 2011

I know from experience that typos caught and listed by the author in the page proof stage are not always corrected in the final print. Probably 99% of them are corrected, but some seem to slip through. If one of those books is scheduled for a second printing, you can bet either the author, the publisher, or both will have caught those mistakes.

Anyone who delights in finding errors in the activities of others is an asshat (excluding professional editors, of course).

shaldna · Nov 16, 2011

Ken said:
... there are always typos in novels, except in ones put out by publishers like Penguin. I guess they have the resources to meticulously go every book. I don't really mind the typos, unless they become too frequent. Then it's annoying.

No one is immune. Not even pengiun. If I could be bothered (which I can't) I'm sure I could find typos in each and every single Penguim published book in our home library (about 7000 books and counting).

Jamesaritchie said:
Factual mistakes, yes. Nitpicking errors like the ones you mention, no, I really don't have the time to read one more complaint. Ten minutes after the book is published, we ALL see every mistake in it, but what can you do?

I'd be willing to be you didn't catch them all. Getting a book to print without mistakes is tough, no many how many eyes go over it.

You all know how much I hate agreeing with JAR, but he is totally right about his.

NeuroFizz said:
I know from experience that typos caught and listed by the author in the page proof stage are not always corrected in the final print. Probably 99% of them are corrected, but some seem to slip through. If one of those books are scheduled for a second printing, you can bet either the author, the publisher, or both will have caught those mistakes.

This also. I go through my galleys over and over again. I'm not great at spelling and often my punctuation is scattershot, so I am super careful on proofing to try and correct anything that is wrong.

But stuff gets missed.

Mark G · Nov 16, 2011

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

Amarie, I can add your book to my queue if you like.

Which one?

NeuroFizz, I wouldn't say that I "delight" in finding errors, but I've gotten into the habit of looking for errors after reading and re-reading my MSs dozens of times. My brain has just started working that way. I don't speed-read, but I manage a book a week or so, going at snail pace. It doesn't help that my full-time job involves analyzing software design specs for issues. Too much analytical thinking maybe... hopefully that doesn't classify me as an asshat.

My goal of this thread is to gather feedback from authors who've already shipped a book to see whether my reader-feedback is useful and wanted, how it would be received, and who, if anyone cares. I understand now that authors may not want my feedback, especially if I don't add some value in some other aspect and sweeten the message with a healthy dose of genuine praise. Honestly, I would not bother giving feedback to an author whose book was so bad I had to stop reading after 3 chapters. I've hit a few of those, including a friend's Self-Pub'd book. What would be the point of contacting that author?

Phaeal, I think the reasons I'd volunteer the feedback are: for the love of the art and the profession, and a pure appreciation for the dedication it took to produce a story that I enjoy. I'm the proverbial "kid in a candy store", and every time I read a well crafted story I get a feeling not unlike the joy of Christmas morning.

I would hope that my correspondence with an author would inspire or reassure her that a thoughtful audience cares what she has to say. Since I care that the author is successful because I love the book, I wouldn't dare publicly post on Amazon that I found 25 typos... but that gives me an epiphany...

Why am I not writing detailed reviews on Amazon of the books I read and liked? *facepalm*

CheshireCat · Nov 16, 2011

Errors happen. Some are not, in fact, errors, but a stylistic choice by the author. Some are typos. (Lots are typos, actually.)

But why on earth you'd want to ruin an author's day by pointing out stuff she/he can't do a thing about baffles me.

Report them to the publisher if you must (In my experience, many still don't get corrected in subsequent print runs). But don't bother to send the author a note. Chances are, we've seen them, winced, beaten ourselves up about not having caught them, and done our best to let it go and move on.

As for "factual" errors, unless you're reading a non-fiction book, I'd hesitate to "correct" what you see as mistakes in history. Novelists are allowed a certain amount of literary license, and most of us take advantage of it. What you see as a "mistake" could well be the choice of an author to take a historical fact and tweak it to suit the story.

Bottom line: Typos happen, you don't always know that a "mistake" is actually a mistake, and once the book is in print most of us are stuck with what's there anyway.

Oh -- and please, please don't send an author a note berating him or her about some personal issue of yours. I once had a lady spend three pages blasting me for having one of my characters smoking. Another lady practically called me the antichrist for having a male character get drunk (an important plot point, btw). And I won't even go into the number of notes I get self-righteously pointing out every four-letter word in the book (said book having obviously been read cover to cover by the "offended" reader).

Imagine sitting down to work all cheerful and in a good mood and finding something like that in your inbox.

Not cool.

Alwaysinspired · Nov 16, 2011

If something I've written has numerous mistakes and I have the ability to correct it, then I want to be informed. If it's just a few mistakes, then I don't sweat it. The one thing I do appreciate is to be told discreetly and certainly not in a public forum.

Jamesaritchie · Nov 16, 2011

If I get an historical date wrong, I want someone to point it out. If I were dumb enough to have a character use a revolver that has a safety, or a character who puts a suppressor on a revolver, I'd hope someone would point it out. I would make certain these were corrected in the next printing.

But even in such matters as these, readers are often the ones who get it wrong, and it's annoying to go into mild panic, spend an hour researching something you were sure you got right, only to learn you did, indeed, get it right, and the reader is wrong.

Al Stevens · Nov 16, 2011

A reader once sent me a copy of one of my books with dozens of postit notes highlighting things with which he disagreed, things he thought I got wrong, and a few typos. The last postit said, "I really like this book." It was helpful to me in writing the next edition.

NeuroFizz · Nov 16, 2011

Mark G said:
NeuroFizz, I wouldn't say that I "delight" in finding errors, but I've gotten into the habit of looking for errors after reading and re-reading my MSs dozens of times. My brain has just started working that way. I don't speed-read, but I manage a book a week or so, going at snail pace. It doesn't help that my full-time job involves analyzing software design specs for issues. Too much analytical thinking maybe... hopefully that doesn't classify me as an asshat.

Mark, I wasn't suggesting you were doing this or that you are an asshat. I didn't quote anyone in my post, and the comment was a general one. Someone, in one of the posts, mentioned a friend who did get a charge out of doing this, or at least that's what I read in it, so it was addressed to people like that friend.

gothicangel · Nov 16, 2011

CheshireCat said:
As for "factual" errors, unless you're reading a non-fiction book, I'd hesitate to "correct" what you see as mistakes in history. Novelists are allowed a certain amount of literary license, and most of us take advantage of it. What you see as a "mistake" could well be the choice of an author to take a historical fact and tweak it to suit the story.

I disagree. There's taking a bit of license [i.e Robyn Young suggesting Alexander III was murdered rather than dying from a riding accident] and there is setting a book in AD 180 claiming Hadrian's Wall is the furthest north the Romans are when they had outposts at Trimontium, Caromago etc and lowland tribes where practically a 'client kingdom' to Rome.

This can actually ruin a good story for some of us. Braveheart anyone?

CheshireCat · Nov 16, 2011

gothicangel said:
I disagree. There's taking a bit of license [i.e Robyn Young suggesting Alexander III was murdered rather than dying from a riding accident] and there is setting a book in AD 180 claiming Hadrian's Wall is the furthest north the Romans are when they had outposts at Trimontium, Caromago etc and lowland tribes where practically a 'client kingdom' to Rome.

This can actually ruin a good story for some of us. Braveheart anyone?

Yeah, but you're the exception. Seriously. Look, I'm not saying a writer should toss deliberate historical mistakes into a story just for the hell of it, but when you're writing FICTION the truth is that you're pretty much in an alternate timeline or world, and the facts and rules are those you choose.

Mind you, if you have a preface to your "historical novel" boasting of your research, then any errors are fair game. Historical facts, as a matter of fact, are changed in quite a few novels, and most readers don't even notice.

(Let's please not argue about readers getting their "history" from novels the way they get various "facts" from movies and TV shows, okay?)

Also, if you're writing a particular kind of book for which the readership is particularly knowledgeable and will call you on perceived mistakes, you'd be wise to know it. Like James's example of not using a silencer on a revolver or putting a safety on one, there are certain inaccuracies readers will jump on with both feet. Gleefully.

There will always be readers out there who know more about a particular subject than you, the writer, do, because you did basic research-- and they majored in it in college or in life.

They will believe you're mistaken, and they will feel quite superior to you in their ability to "correct" you. I once had a nurse "correct" me on my "definition" of a psychological condition of one of the characters. The problem was, she didn't read the bit correctly and took what was said as "fact" when another character was merely offering a lay opinion. Which I had made clear.

How "accurate" you choose to be is up to you, the author, and depends on various factors from what sort of book you're writing to whether you decided to create your own world or alternate world or timeline -- or whatever. As long as the rules in your world are consistent within that world, you have the final say over what's right or wrong.

In my opinion, of course.

gothicangel · Nov 17, 2011

We're are obviously not going to agree here. But I do expect historical novels to have a high level of historical accuracy, most do. When they don't I expect the authors to say so in end notes

I work in the heritage sector, and hoping to begin a PhD in Roman History over the next few years. So, yeah, accuracy is important to me.

Why risk losing readers because you slipped up on the research [or were to lazy in the first place]?

NeuroFizz · Nov 17, 2011

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not happy with writing that just gets by. Since my work is a measure of my creativity and my knowledge, I want to strive for excellence in all aspects of that writing; the craft of writing, storytelling, accuracy of detail, etc. Of course, excellence is always out of reach, but by trying for it in each and every project, I expect to see continual improvement in all areas.

As the author of an historical (Phoenix), I would appreciate hearing about historical details that may be inaccurate or in debate. And while we can get away with some license through suspension of disbelief, we should all strive to get the small stuff (big historical stuff in historicals) absolutely correct. The best way to screw up a really good story is to have inaccuracies in the smaller details (like JAR mentioned about revolvers, for example). Those are easily within our research reach, particularly with the internet at our fingertips.

Our goal should not just be publication, but publication of projects that we are proud of, for our attempts to find excellence in the writing craft, in storytelling, and in accuracy of detail in the intracacies of the real world.

gothicangel · Nov 17, 2011

NeuroFizz said:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not happy with writing that just gets by. Since my work is a measure of my creativity and my knowledge, I want to strive for excellence in all aspects of that writing; the craft of writing, storytelling, accuracy of detail, etc. Of course, excellence is always out of reach, but by trying for it in each and every project, I expect to see continual improvement in all areas.

As the author of an historical (Phoenix), I would appreciate hearing about historical details that may be inaccurate or in debate. And while we can get away with some license through suspension of disbelief, we should all strive to get the small stuff (big historical stuff in historicals) absolutely correct. The best way to screw up a really good story is to have inaccuracies in the smaller details (like JAR mentioned about revolvers, for example). Those are easily within our research reach, particularly with the internet at our fingertips.

Our goal should not just be publication, but publication of projects that we are proud of, for our attempts to find excellence in the writing craft, in storytelling, and in accuracy of detail in the intracacies of the real world.

PorterStarrByrd · Nov 17, 2011

Print : I just count on the fact that there are a whole lot of people both more anal than I am (some with better knowledge of correct writing) who are MUCH more likely to contact the author, the publisher, and probably the world than I am.

e- : nearly ditto. My best hope is that authors will realize that, in way too many instances, the book was not nearly as ready for publishing as they thought it was. It might result in a better book the next time, if not editing of the one criticized.

Person utilization : It's called beta reading (coming and going) followed by professional editing.

There will still be typo's

areteus · Nov 17, 2011

I've put in some historical errors but I was aware of them and they were deliberate attempts to make the story work. My biggest was possibly having more of an established garrison of Romans in a particular area in a date when they were only just getting to conquering the North (I think Hadrians wall had been built then, mind...)

I think if you are making a claim of historicity (i.e. you have set a date for your work and are claiming it is the real world and not some parallel universe...) then you have to expect a certain degree of criticism from historians and even amateur history buffs like me. Nit picking is an historian's favourite pastime (I know, I live with one but never tell her I said this... she'll kill me...). We were doing it last night to the low budget film we were watching... wondering why knights fresh from the crusades were wandering around Welsh castles which were clearly built in the 14th century and which had also clearly been ruined for centuries... oh, and the boat they used was clearly a modern yaught

ChaosTitan · Nov 17, 2011

I'm still amused by the message I got from someone who won a copy of an ARC of Trance, which clearly said on the cover "Uncorrected Proofs," letting me know about a spelling error on page six...

It's odd that readers will take the time and energy to send an email yelling at you for what you got wrong, but so few take that time to compliment what they liked. Then again, I'm from the "tell them what they did right, give them your feedback on what they did wrong, then end on a positive note" school of providing feedback to folks. It works better from a small business standpoint, I think.

Susan Coffin · Nov 17, 2011

I don't know, sometimes errors happen. I have been reading a series by an author that I really enjoy. She is published by one of the best and writes such great stories. However, I have noticed typographical errors in the books. I just don't think it's worth pointing out.

I had an error in one of my published stories, but never said anything about it. It just seemed silly to do so.

Everybody is human and makes mistakes.

ETA: as for errors with details and facts, those absolutely need to be correct. If not, you loose your credibility as writer. Typos or grammar is more likely the editor, but research is our job.

gothicangel · Nov 17, 2011

areteus said:
I've put in some historical errors but I was aware of them and they were deliberate attempts to make the story work. My biggest was possibly having more of an established garrison of Romans in a particular area in a date when they were only just getting to conquering the North (I think Hadrians wall had been built then, mind...)

I think if you are making a claim of historicity (i.e. you have set a date for your work and are claiming it is the real world and not some parallel universe...) then you have to expect a certain degree of criticism from historians and even amateur history buffs like me. Nit picking is an historian's favourite pastime (I know, I live with one but never tell her I said this... she'll kill me...). We were doing it last night to the low budget film we were watching... wondering why knights fresh from the crusades were wandering around Welsh castles which were clearly built in the 14th century and which had also clearly been ruined for centuries... oh, and the boat they used was clearly a modern yaught

I think we've discussed this before, haven't we? I agree whole hearedly with NeuroFizz that we should aim for the highest standards in every aspect of writing fiction. Though accidents do happen, and history/archaeology advance [as I discovered recently when archaeologists unearthed two new Roman forts near Falkirk, which messed up my WIP for a while.]

I had the misfortune of walking in on the film Arthur last night. I had to take a lie down in a dark room over that one.

Sunnyside · Nov 17, 2011

It happens, whether we like it or not. After my first book was published, I got a phone message from someone I hadn't heard from in years who called "just to let [me] know" that he had found a typo. Que sera, sera, smart guy.

Now, had there been an actual mistake, I appreciate having those pointed out. Fortunately, I haven't had that happen. Bill O'Reilly, however, has just discovered what happens when readers who know a bit of history catch errors -- however small --- in your book. You'll hear about it.

Historians and Experts In Their Field, in particular LOVE to point out mistakes, however minor or trivial they may be. I remember reading a letter in a magazine from someone who berated the editors for having the nerve to say that a day was 24 hours long, when it's actually 23 hours, 59 minutes and some-odd seconds. That's the kind of stuff that makes you want to punch someone. Hard.

Toothpaste · Nov 17, 2011

I'm one of those authors who doesn't want to be told if there is an error in her work. There is nothing I can do about it, and it really makes me consider the motivation of the person telling me. After all, they also know I can't do anything about the problem, so are they just telling me to make me embarrassed? To show how superior they are to me? It's not really helpful after all.

The only rare thing I could possibly be okay with is an error that might reoccur in later works and could be prevented from being made again. But honestly, spelling/grammar errors? Likely I already know about them and am mad they got in there, and often they aren't even because of me, they happen later on in the process by others.

areteus · Nov 17, 2011

gothicangel said:
I think we've discussed this before, haven't we? I agree whole hearedly with NeuroFizz that we should aim for the highest standards in every aspect of writing fiction. Though accidents do happen, and history/archaeology advance [as I discovered recently when archaeologists unearthed two new Roman forts near Falkirk, which messed up my WIP for a while.]

I had the misfortune of walking in on the film Arthur last night. I had to take a lie down in a dark room over that one.

yes, we have.

And I am going to split off another thread from this about history specifically... I think it deserves its own discussion.

Al Stevens · Nov 17, 2011

"Publishing is writing with your pants off."

squibnocket · Nov 17, 2011

As someone who writes non-fiction (craft books), I do appreciate when an error is pointed out by a reader because those mistakes can affect the outcome of a project. I can then make notes to my readers on my website and get the error corrected should the book go into another printing.

*How* someone tells me about an error is another issue.

Most people have been super nice about the mistakes. Others? Not so much.

Mark G · Nov 17, 2011

I'm learning a lot from this thread, and I appreciate all the responses.

One of the most important tidbits was that the author could produce an error-free draft and errors could get introduced by the publisher. I had no idea that they'd actually edit the content we gave them.

Another important thing I've learned is that the author may have no way to do anything about the errors. I had thought about the fact that the author might already be aware of an error I found, but I had thought that they might want to use my feedback to pressure a publisher to fix something. She might be able to use my email in talking to the publisher/editor and say "See! People are finding this! You need to fix it!"

Toothpaste, I think the motivations aren't necessarily selfish. In my case, I'm not trying to impress the author that I was able to find these things; I was trying to help. In my ignorance, I thought that maybe these things were missed. I thought that pointing things out would enable the author to polish the work to perfection, and I thought that they'd want to do that because they took pride in their work. I hadn't counted on the possibility that my feedback would hurt their pride. When that occurred to me, I was inspired to start this thread.

So, I wonder about directing my future feedback, or if I should give it. One of my wife's favorite phrases is "feedback is a gift", and that's how I was viewing it. I cared enough about the book and the success of the author to say something.

I have sent feedback to 2 authors before, one to the author of a fiction series I love (Jennifer Estep, "Elemental Assassin" series - it's really fun)... but her last book had some typos. It wasn't in dialog, and I'm smart enough to know when a typo is intentional for non-dialog in the character's voice. I made sure to mention that I loved the book, and I was looking forward to her next - due out soon.

The other was a while back, and it was to the author of a NY Times Bestseller series involving vampires... one character pulled out a "Glock" that she referred to as a "revolver" (Glock has never made a revolver - they make semi-auto only). I recall the email I sent praising the series and that I had read all her books and thought they were great - and that there was just this one thing...

So for those who said that they don't want to know about errors: Would you feel the same way if the note was effusive with praise?

As an aspiring writer myself, is contacting an editor/publisher and pointing out errors counter-productive to eventually getting published?

Torgo · Nov 17, 2011

Mark G said:
Another important thing I've learned is that the author may have no way to do anything about the errors. I had thought about the fact that the author might already be aware of an error I found, but I had thought that they might want to use my feedback to pressure a publisher to fix something. She might be able to use my email in talking to the publisher/editor and say "See! People are finding this! You need to fix it!"

Sure, but the publisher's just as motivated as the author to fix things, and reprint corrections are part of the workflow for most companies. There shouldn't be any need for extra pressure.

The other was a while back, and it was to the author of a NY Times Bestseller series involving vampires... one character pulled out a "Glock" that she referred to as a "revolver" (Glock has never made a revolver - they make semi-auto only). I recall the email I sent praising the series and that I had read all her books and thought they were great - and that there was just this one thing...

I don't think authors really want to know about typos, but if you sent a tactful letter pointing out failures of research like this, I think that's fine. I know authors do get and often appreciate letters like that, especially about firearms. Typos and layout issues, you can bring to the attention of the publisher.

As an aspiring writer myself, is contacting an editor/publisher and pointing out errors counter-productive to eventually getting published?

Not in the least, unless you're a dick about it. Most likely nobody would ever make the connection.

Do you want someone pointing out mistakes in your published works?

How do you feel about receiving error reports after your book is published?

I love the feedback.

I can use the feedback to hassle my editor.

I get frustrated by it.

I like pie.

There's nothing I can do about it.

I can fix it for the next run / online edition.

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The grad students did it

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