what about...

Siri Kirpal · Sep 24, 2011

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Many agents say they don't take poetry. But what about books in other genres that contain poetry?

I'm working on a memoir that includes, among other things, an exchange of poems between me and a friend who committed suicide. I'm not ready to query yet, still have at least a year of work as far as I can guestimate, but I'd like to know what other authors have experienced and what agents have to say on this topic.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Undercover · Sep 25, 2011

If it's a memoir that contains some poetry, you would query for non-fiction and memoirs, because that's what it is on a whole. Just because it contains some poems in the text doesn't mean they won't accept it. If it was just a collection of poems and no story in connection with it then yeah, don't query them.

My one novel contained poems and my pub. accepted it as such, a novel. That's it. One thing I would advise you on is make sure the writing of your memoir flows along with these poems. I got reemed on that from a reviewer..."it sounded choppy" "didn't flow" and that sort of thing.

But like I said, since it's a memoir, you shouldn't have a problem querying agents that accept that even though they may mention no poetry.

Old Hack · Sep 25, 2011

The reason that agents don't usually represent poets isn't because they don't like the form: it's because poetry doesn't make enough money for them to earn a living from doing so. Poems usually sell one at a time, to literary journals; collections and anthologies are published very rarely, and then usually make very little money.

One thing about your question concerns me, Siri:

Siri Kirpal said:
I'm working on a memoir that includes, among other things, an exchange of poems between me and a friend who committed suicide.

If you intend to get this published then you'll need written confirmation from your friend's legal estate that you have permission to use his work. You cannot go ahead with publication without this explicit permission. Trade publishers won't even consider your book without it; and if you self-publish without it you'll be leaving yourself wide open to legal action. Please be careful.

Siri Kirpal · Sep 25, 2011

Lmc71775 said:
If it's a memoir that contains some poetry, you would query for non-fiction and memoirs, because that's what it is on a whole. Just because it contains some poems in the text doesn't mean they won't accept it. If it was just a collection of poems and no story in connection with it then yeah, don't query them.

My one novel contained poems and my pub. accepted it as such, a novel. That's it. One thing I would advise you on is make sure the writing of your memoir flows along with these poems. I got reemed on that from a reviewer..."it sounded choppy" "didn't flow" and that sort of thing.

But like I said, since it's a memoir, you shouldn't have a problem querying agents that accept that even though they may mention no poetry.

Thanks for the reply. That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Siri Kirpal · Sep 25, 2011

Old Hack said:
The reason that agents don't usually represent poets isn't because they don't like the form: it's because poetry doesn't make enough money for them to earn a living from doing so. Poems usually sell one at a time, to literary journals; collections and anthologies are published very rarely, and then usually make very little money.

One thing about your question concerns me, Siri:

If you intend to get this published then you'll need written confirmation from your friend's legal estate that you have permission to use his work. You cannot go ahead with publication without this explicit permission. Trade publishers won't even consider your book without it; and if you self-publish without it you'll be leaving yourself wide open to legal action. Please be careful.

Thanks for the concern. I'm aware of the legal issue. One of the poems is dedicated to me, and I've been told by a lawyer I can use it, since it counts as a gift. I do know that I'll need to talk to his widow about the rest.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Nuwanda · Sep 25, 2011

I'm glad you asked this! I was wondering that myself, my MS contains about four. A few have been published in other journals, and some agents say they don't take previously published work. Does this count, even though it was a one time publishing? Or is it slightly different since in my MS the poems are no longer stand alone?

Old Hack · Sep 25, 2011

Siri Kirpal said:
Thanks for the concern. I'm aware of the legal issue. One of the poems is dedicated to me, and I've been told by a lawyer I can use it, since it counts as a gift. I do know that I'll need to talk to his widow about the rest.

I don't think that poem will count as a gift, I'm afraid. You'll need written permission for that one too, before you start submitting.

Nuwanda · Sep 25, 2011

Old Hack said:
I don't think that poem will count as a gift, I'm afraid. You'll need written permission for that one too, before you start submitting.

Siri Kirpal, are the poems from your friend previously published, or were they just things passed back and forth between the two of you? Old Hack, would that make a difference? If Siri Kirpal acknowledges said friend as the writer, would that do? I'm asking this only if the answer is no for the poems being previously published...

Undercover · Sep 25, 2011

Old Hack said:
I don't think that poem will count as a gift, I'm afraid. You'll need written permission for that one too, before you start submitting.

I would have to agree with OH here. I don't know what kind of lawyer you went to, but I wouldn't go by that. Sure it may be a gift, but you did not write it. Publishing something you didn't write without the written consent of the author (or in this case author's legal estate executor) can and will result in a huge mess escpecially if your book does well. They will want their cut of it.

Just be careful what you want to put in this memoir. I would also talk to the widow about everything and anything you think may cause her to dispute your book. IF anything record the conversation. "just for the record"

Old Hack · Sep 25, 2011

Nuwanda said:
Siri Kirpal, are the poems from your friend previously published, or were they just things passed back and forth between the two of you? Old Hack, would that make a difference? If Siri Kirpal acknowledges said friend as the writer, would that do? I'm asking this only if the answer is no for the poems being previously published...

It wouldn't matter if the poems were previously published or not, or if Mr Kirpal acknowledged the author properly: he still doesn't appear to have proper permission to publish them, and so long as that's the case he would be in breach of copyright if he went ahead and published them. Which is why a publisher is going to expect him to get written permission from the copyright holder prior to publication. There might well be fees involved in obtaining that permission and it is usual for the author--in this case, Mr Kirpal--to pay all those fees, or to cover all legal fees incurred if permission isn't obtained and legal action results.

Nuwanda · Sep 25, 2011

Thanks for clearing that up!

Siri Kirpal · Sep 25, 2011

Old Hack said:
It wouldn't matter if the poems were previously published or not, or if Mr Kirpal acknowledged the author properly: he still doesn't appear to have proper permission to publish them, and so long as that's the case he would be in breach of copyright if he went ahead and published them. Which is why a publisher is going to expect him to get written permission from the copyright holder prior to publication. There might well be fees involved in obtaining that permission and it is usual for the author--in this case, Mr Kirpal--to pay all those fees, or to cover all legal fees incurred if permission isn't obtained and legal action results.

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name")

Bless you. I'm a she, not a he.

I'll be contacting the widow for all of them once I know exactly what's going in and what's staying out. And yes, before contacting agents/publishers.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Siri Kirpal · Sep 25, 2011

Nuwanda said:
I'm glad you asked this! I was wondering that myself, my MS contains about four. A few have been published in other journals, and some agents say they don't take previously published work. Does this count, even though it was a one time publishing? Or is it slightly different since in my MS the poems are no longer stand alone?

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name")

When agents say they don't take previously published work, I don't think that includes short sections in periodicals. That's usually a plus. But as with me having to get the permission from the estate, you'll need to get permissions from the periodicals, or whatever it was.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Nuwanda · Sep 25, 2011

True enough! I recently pulled out 'such and such poems previously published' from my current query letter. I think I'm going to keep it that way depending on who I'm sending to, just to be on the safe side just because it can be read the wrong way...I think...ugh! So much to consider!!

Thanks for the advice, I think in both our cases it shouldn't be too difficult to get it all straightened out.

Siri Kirpal · Sep 25, 2011

Nuwanda said:
True enough! I recently pulled out 'such and such poems previously published' from my current query letter. I think I'm going to keep it that way depending on who I'm sending to, just to be on the safe side just because it can be read the wrong way...I think...ugh! So much to consider!!

Thanks for the advice, I think in both our cases it shouldn't be too difficult to get it all straightened out.

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name")

Good luck with the queries and agent hunt! May your book(s) find a good home (and perferably a whole lot of homes!).

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Nuwanda · Sep 25, 2011

The same to you. Keep me updated so I can make sure to display yours at work once it comes through!

Old Hack · Sep 26, 2011

Nuwanda, you'll need to check your contracts for the pieces you've already had published to make sure that you still have the rights to use them elsewhere. Some publications take all rights, and will only return them to you for payment. It's not good.

Nuwanda · Sep 26, 2011

Done and done

Both are First Publication rights to the journals with all other rights reverting back to the author. I had remembered the editors saying that, but it's always good just to double check. I'll make sure that I do the same with any future stuff.

Siri Kirpal · Sep 26, 2011

Nuwanda said:
The same to you. Keep me updated so I can make sure to display yours at work once it comes through!

Sat Nam!

Thanks! I'll try to remember. If you like, you could send me a private message with your email address. I think I'll start making a list of people to contact when the day arrives.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

what about...

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Such a nasty woman

Siri Kirpal

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Siri Kirpal

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Such a nasty woman

Nuwanda

Undercover

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Siri Kirpal

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Siri Kirpal

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Nuwanda

Siri Kirpal

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Nuwanda

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Such a nasty woman

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Siri Kirpal

Swan in Process