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traveo2343

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Hi all,
I have learned quite a bit in the last several years. More so then when I first began this venture. I will begin working on an After Action Report later this year which I am required to present to the board in order to close out the business on paper. If it is of interest, I may post it or highlights of it here, if anyone would find it useful.ra

Again, I hope to return to publishing at some point in my future. I still believe that fiction is an integral part of a well-balanced economy and that all of the ingenious thoughts and innovations we have today are courtesy of decades of literature. And I want to be apart of making that a reality.

There are a lot of things that I would change doing it over again, and some things I would keep the same. But for now, I will focus my time elsewhere.

When and if I ever do decide to go back into Publishing, I will let this community know. Give you the opportunity to contribute your thoughts and input.

I wish you all of the best.
 
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Perks

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I still believe that fiction is an integral part of a well balanced economy and that all of the ingenious thoughts and innovations we have today are courtesy of decades of literature. And I want to be apart of making that a reality.

That's a nice take on it. We have to imagine things before we can make them. All innovation, mechanical and moral, begins with someone making something up.

Good luck, Travis.
 

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Hi all,
Again, I hope to return to publishing at some point in my future. I still believe that fiction is an integral part of a well-balanced economy and that all of the ingenious thoughts and innovations we have today are courtesy of decades of literature. And I want to be apart of making that a reality.


I haven't read the full thread, but I think it's awesome that you gave it an honest effort on your own. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to start a company of any scope in such a competitive market. I too had a not-awesome experience with your venture eons back, but no business is perfect.

I hope your love for fiction does express itself in a positive way in the near future.

Best,
M
 

traveo2343

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Greetings AW,

It's been about 2 years since I closed Zharmae. Recently I have been considering getting back into book publication. As promised, I am reaching out here to get some feedback from the community and to answer any questions that might be posed. This would be under a new organization, Daven Borlen Publishers (www.davenborlen.com), DB was a project that I had been working on toward the end of Zharmae and never got off the ground. Please note that if you do visit the website it will not relate at all to what I am considering starting a new publishing house. I would like to reuse the Zharmae assets such as the social media accounts and name but I think that the name and brand have too negative an image in the publishing community so I am having to nix that idea. I was able to bury Zharmae with some dignity, so I need to let t rest.

Over the last two years I have focused on Whorde Worldbuilders (whorde.co) and my management consultancy with my husband Alyn Robert (alynrobert.com) as well as going back to school to complete my masters. From that experience, I have come across a niche that I am thinking I'd like to focus on in the book market. And while I am planning primarily to operate the new house very much like a book packager in the same manner as the Goosebumps series is produced, I do not want to discount the possibility that I might find myself working with authors again. From my experience and that of several agents and publisher colleagues, unless I have AW's support the venture is not likely to be successful.

With that being said what follows is the initial outline of what I am thinking. I would love any questions, comments, and especially your concerns:

- DB will produce franchise style content in a select few genres in a saga or collective world style.
- All work would be published under a single branded author name like R.L. Stine's Goosebumps series.
- We would produce work in eBook, Print, Audio, Comic, and Translation (Spanish, French, and Portugues).
- DB would own the franchise and work with writers under ghostwriting contracts (generally flat fee), would provide the story treatment, character profiles, etc. The writer would simply be tasked with writing the content.
- Beyond the content production process where I believe ghostwriting or work-for-hire projects are very well defined, I anticipate that we may work with Authors aking to a "showrunner" or "master storyteller" type of role. Where they are being paid to develop the overall story concept and help lead where the story goes.


At this point, I'd like to be clear that I have not signed any contracts with anyone, and am still very much in the ideation phase of this.

PS - I hope you guys think I am moderately reformed. ;-)
 

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Greetings AW,

It's been about 2 years since I closed Zharmae. Recently I have been considering getting back into book publication. As promised, I am reaching out here to get some feedback from the community and to answer any questions that might be posed. This would be under a new organization, Daven Borlen Publishers (www.davenborlen.com), DB was a project that I had been working on toward the end of Zharmae and never got off the ground. Please note that if you do visit the website it will not relate at all to what I am considering starting a new publishing house. I would like to reuse the Zharmae assets such as the social media accounts and name but I think that the name and brand have too negative an image in the publishing community so I am having to nix that idea. I was able to bury Zharmae with some dignity, so I need to let t rest.

Over the last two years I have focused on Whorde Worldbuilders (whorde.co) and my management consultancy with my husband Alyn Robert (alynrobert.com) as well as going back to school to complete my masters.


You still have zero experience of working in publishing. You still no next to nothing about how to run a successful publishing house. If you're so determined to work in publishing, get a job with a trade publisher, or a good literary agency, and learn your trade. Because until you do that, you're just going to keep failing, and every time you fail you'll take another tranche of aspiring writers down with you.

From that experience, I have come across a niche that I am thinking I'd like to focus on in the book market. And while I am planning primarily to operate the new house very much like a book packager in the same manner as the Goosebumps series is produced,

I've worked at a book packager.

Goosebumps isn't a packaged product as far as I know, and Stine really exists. He's not a made-up person like Erin Hunter, for example. Can you provide more information about this, please? Because I'd hate to think you were basing your new business on a misconception.

I do not want to discount the possibility that I might find myself working with authors again. From my experience and that of several agents and publisher colleagues, unless I have AW's support the venture is not likely to be successful.

I was an editor for a small book packager years ago and I worked with lots of authors. All books need authors. I don't understand why you think packagers don't work with authors. Again, can you clarify?

With that being said what follows is the initial outline of what I am thinking. I would love any questions, comments, and especially your concerns:

- DB will produce franchise style content in a select few genres in a saga or collective world style.
- All work would be published under a single branded author name like R.L. Stine's Goosebumps series.
- We would produce work in eBook, Print, Audio, Comic, and Translation (Spanish, French, and Portugues).
- DB would own the franchise and work with writers under ghostwriting contracts (generally flat fee), would provide the story treatment, character profiles, etc. The writer would simply be tasked with writing the content.

Hang on. Three sentences ago, you said you were not going to work with writers again but here you are, asking writers to work for you. No wonder I'm confused.

- Beyond the content production process where I believe ghostwriting or work-for-hire projects are very well defined,

Work for hire and ghosting are two separate issues. They can't be used interchangeably like this. Please make sure you know the difference between the two before offering any more contracts.

I anticipate that we may work with Authors aking to a "showrunner" or "master storyteller" type of role. Where they are being paid to develop the overall story concept and help lead where the story goes.

Travis, when you set up Zharmae you didn't know what publishing entailed, and so you failed to make the income you needed, and ended up closing the company.

Now you're proposing to work as a packager. But you don't understand what packaging involves, and so you will fail at this too.

It's harder to make a book packager work, because you're adding an extra layer to the process. Packagers don't publish books. They produce books for publishers. So as well as those books having to pay all their publisher's costs, they have to pay their packager's costs, and turn a profit too. In packaging, costs and profits are cut to the bone. If you failed to make a profit at Zharmae, how are you going to make a profit at this new venture? It's not going to happen.

At this point, I'd like to be clear that I have not signed any contracts with anyone, and am still very much in the ideation phase of this.

PS - I hope you guys think I am moderately reformed. ;-)

My concerns are that you don't know what you're doing, you have no relevant experience, you seem to think that book packaging is somehow easier than publishing, and that you're suggesting that if we don't somehow approve your next venture it will be a failure, leaving all the blame on us.

Get a job at a publishing house, Travis. Work there for a decade. Then, when you come back and tell us about your new publishing venture, we'll be able to have more faith in you.
 

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PS - I hope you guys think I am moderately reformed. ;-)

In my case, you didn't respond to queries (post-contract) for many months, and I never got paid. Nothing you've said indicates either that you recognize these failings, or that you intend to change your approach. I wish you well, but personally, I wouldn't touch this enterprise.
 
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traveo2343

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In my case, you didn't respond to queries (post-contract) for many months, and I never got paid. Nothing you've said indicates either that you recognize these failings, nor that you intend to change your approach. I wish you well, but personally, I wouldn't touch this enterprise.

Evil,

Noted and thank you for the feedback. If you believe that you had a project with Zharmae that was contracted for payment and that we missed paying you as part of the terms of your contract, please email me at [email protected] and I can look into it. That being said we did an audit after everything was closed out in January 2017, and all payables were accounted for and made. if you worked with an agent, then you should contact your agent.
 
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traveo2343

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You still have zero experience of working in publishing. You still no next to nothing about how to run a successful publishing house. If you're so determined to work in publishing, get a job with a trade publisher, or a good literary agency, and learn your trade. Because until you do that, you're just going to keep failing, and every time you fail you'll take another tranche of aspiring writers down with you.



I've worked at a book packager.

Goosebumps isn't a packaged product as far as I know, and Stine really exists. He's not a made-up person like Erin Hunter, for example. Can you provide more information about this, please? Because I'd hate to think you were basing your new business on a misconception.



I was an editor for a small book packager years ago and I worked with lots of authors. All books need authors. I don't understand why you think packagers don't work with authors. Again, can you clarify?



Hang on. Three sentences ago, you said you were not going to work with writers again but here you are, asking writers to work for you. No wonder I'm confused.



Work for hire and ghosting are two separate issues. They can't be used interchangeably like this. Please make sure you know the difference between the two before offering any more contracts.



Travis, when you set up Zharmae you didn't know what publishing entailed, and so you failed to make the income you needed, and ended up closing the company.

Now you're proposing to work as a packager. But you don't understand what packaging involves, and so you will fail at this too.

It's harder to make a book packager work, because you're adding an extra layer to the process. Packagers don't publish books. They produce books for publishers. So as well as those books having to pay all their publisher's costs, they have to pay their packager's costs, and turn a profit too. In packaging, costs and profits are cut to the bone. If you failed to make a profit at Zharmae, how are you going to make a profit at this new venture? It's not going to happen.



My concerns are that you don't know what you're doing, you have no relevant experience, you seem to think that book packaging is somehow easier than publishing, and that you're suggesting that if we don't somehow approve your next venture it will be a failure, leaving all the blame on us.

Get a job at a publishing house, Travis. Work there for a decade. Then, when you come back and tell us about your new publishing venture, we'll be able to have more faith in you.

Hi Old Hack,

I'm sorry, I may not have been clear, I have been successfully running Whorde since closing Zharmae. Whorde does provide contract-based ghostwriting and packaging services to clients, primarily larger book publishers, film production studios, and authors. Which is how I came across the concept that I presented.

From the research, I have conducted it was my understanding that Goosebumps is entirely ghostwritten at present. I realise that Stine is a real person, however, I don't know if that necessarily negates the ghostwriting aspect. But I'll accept what you say, I'm not looking to argue, I very well may be misinformed.

I realize and fully accept my shortcomings with Zharmae. But I also acknowledge my skills and where I have been successful.

But I would love to hear any serious, constructive feedback on the details I listed here:

- DB will produce franchise style content in a select few genres in a saga or collective world style.
- All work would be published under a single branded author name like R.L. Stine's Goosebumps series.
- We would produce work in eBook, Print, Audio, Comic, and Translation (Spanish, French, and Portugues).
- DB would own the franchise and work with writers under ghostwriting contracts (generally flat fee), would provide the story treatment, character profiles, etc. The writer would simply be tasked with writing the content.
- Beyond the content production process where I believe ghostwriting or work-for-hire projects are very well defined, I anticipate that we may work with Authors akin to a "showrunner" or "master storyteller" type of role. Where they are being paid to develop the overall story concept and help lead where the story goes.


@AW Admin - Thank you.
 
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mrsmig

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Travis, the very thinly veiled accusation that Zharmae failed because AW didn't give it a stamp of approval really gravels me.

YOUR BUSINESS FAILED BECAUSE YOU HAD A BAD BUSINESS MODEL, and you stuck to that model despite warnings from this website that it wouldn't work. Then you bailed out and left your authors danging and unpaid. (Evil Overlord, I'm sorry this happened to you, and Travis' lame response must feel like insult added to injury.)

Sorry, Travis - but if I saw your name associated with a business - any business - I would back away.
 

traveo2343

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Travis, the very thinly veiled accusation that Zharmae failed because AW didn't give it a stamp of approval really gravels me.

YOUR BUSINESS FAILED BECAUSE YOU HAD A BAD BUSINESS MODEL, and you stuck to that model despite warnings from this website that it wouldn't work. Then you bailed out and left your authors danging and unpaid. (Evil Overlord, I'm sorry this happened to you, and Travis' lame response must feel like insult added to injury.)

Sorry, Travis - but if I saw your name associated with a business - any business - I would back away.

Thank you, again, I fully acknowledge the shortcomings with Zharmae. Also, to my knowledge, there are no unpaid authors, artists, or contractors remaining with Zharmae, and anyone who believes they were not paid should email me directly so that I can look into it. All payments owed to authors and artists were paid in December 2016 with an audit to verify in January 2017.

I was not attempting to suggest that Zharmae failed because AW did not give a stamp of approval, and I apologize if that is how it was interpreted. More so that I have watched this forum for years and understand that having AW member's general support is worthwhile. This means presenting an information and taking the feedback into consideration. I also fully recognize that anything I do in the publishing industry would be very well scrutinized by AW. You want to protect writers.
 
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mrsmig

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Interested in hearing Evil Overlord's response to this, particularly after you went back and edited your previous "Noted and thank you" post so it would look like you were actually responsive.
 

traveo2343

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Interested in hearing Evil Overlord's response to this, particularly after you went back and edited your previous "Noted and thank you" post so it would look like you were actually responsive.

One - I thought about it, and I don't have anything to hide at this point.

Two - Evil may not have had my correct email.
 

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Hi Old Hack,

I'm sorry, I may not have been clear, I have been successfully running Whorde since closing Zharmae. Whorde does provide contract-based ghostwriting and packaging services to clients, primarily larger book publishers, film production studios, and authors. Which is how I came across the concept that I presented.

How are you defining "successfully running" in the above paragraph? Hundreds of thousands in revenue? Millions? I checked out your site and it's a little thin on examples, there aren't any testimonials, and you're running unrelated keyword ads on the site (not something I see "successful" businesses doing).

Also, how did things go for the authors who went over to Incorgnito as part of the winding down of Zharmae?
 

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Hi Old Hack,

I'm sorry, I may not have been clear, I have been successfully running Whorde since closing Zharmae. Whorde does provide contract-based ghostwriting and packaging services to clients, primarily larger book publishers, film production studios, and authors. Which is how I came across the concept that I presented.

How has that gone for you? Have any of the books you've packaged sold through, or hit the best-seller lists, or anything notable? Who have you packaged for?

I note on your website you state your prices:

Packaged Services

Below is short listing of our most popular client packages. Please contact us to learn more and begin your engagement with us.
Content Packages

  • Whorde Developed Single Title – $4,000 (add on art & design for $500)
  • Custom Developed Single Title – $5,000 (add on art & design for $500)
  • Whorde Developed 3 Title Series – $9,000 (includes art & design)
  • Custom Developed 3 Title Series – $12,000 (includes art & design)
  • TV Half Season Tie-in Series (13 Titles) – $104,000
  • TV Full Season Tie-in Series (24 Titles) – $180,000
Editorial Packages

  • Manuscript CPR (copy edit, proofreading, and review) – $2,000
  • Conceptual Edits – $1,500 first pass, $300 per additional pass.
  • Book Reviews (4 or 5 Star) – $100
I have a few issues with that price list.

For example, you're offering to develop a single title for $5k, with art and design an extra $500: but if you're packaging books then you should be delivering printed copies, fully done, to the company you're packaging the title for. I'm not sure your understanding of book packaging matches mine.

And another thing: you're offering "Manuscript CPR" to include a copy edit, proofreading and review: are you charging for writing reviews of books you've edited? That's a huge conflict of interests if you are. Charging money for a guaranteed good review is pretty shonky: it makes a mockery of all reviews you provide.

From the research, I have conducted it was my understanding that Goosebumps is entirely ghostwritten at present. I realise that Stine is a real person, however, I don't know if that necessarily negates the ghostwriting aspect. But I'll accept what you say, I'm not looking to argue, I very well may be misinformed.

I haven't had time to look at Goosebumps, but I suspect Stine wrote all of the books in the early days and that more recently some of the writing has been farmed out.

I realize and fully accept my shortcomings with Zharmae. But I also acknowledge my skills and where I have been successful.

But I would love to hear any serious, constructive feedback on the details I listed here:

- DB will produce franchise style content in a select few genres in a saga or collective world style.
- All work would be published under a single branded author name like R.L. Stine's Goosebumps series.


What is "franchise style content"? What is "
a saga or collective world style"? Yes, I can make a guess at what you mean but if you can't articulate your ideas clearly you're going to struggle in this business.

You don't have distribution, so you aren't placed to sell enough copies to make this work.

- We would produce work in eBook, Print, Audio, Comic, and Translation (Spanish, French, and Portugues).


And now you're going to need distribution in other territories, and to understand the foreign and translation market as well as the US market, but you still haven't got a proper grasp of the US market. Travis, you're making the same mistakes again.


- DB would own the franchise and work with writers under ghostwriting contracts (generally flat fee), would provide the story treatment, character profiles, etc. The writer would simply be tasked with writing the content.
- Beyond the content production process where I believe ghostwriting or work-for-hire projects are very well defined, I anticipate that we may work with Authors akin to a "showrunner" or "master storyteller" type of role. Where they are being paid to develop the overall story concept and help lead where the story goes.

I hope it goes well for you, but I see so many holes in your plans.

As I said in my earlier post, if you want to work in publishing get a job in publishing and learn the business first. Because right now, you don't know what you're getting wrong and have little chance of making a success at this.
 
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traveo2343

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How are you defining "successfully running" in the above paragraph? Hundreds of thousands in revenue? Millions? I checked out your site and it's a little thin on examples, there aren't any testimonials, and you're running unrelated keyword ads on the site (not something I see "successful" businesses doing).

Also, how did things go for the authors who went over to Incorgnito as part of the winding down of Zharmae?

Hello Round Two,

I define successful as profitable. Whorde has delivered an average of 1-2 projects per week, and the projects with ongoing clients typically run $4,500. Some clients have ongoing agreements that discount that price to $3,500. I haven't had a need to pick up new clients for Whorde in over a year, about 80% of the work is with studios who have had us sign confidentiality agreements for the projects.

I honestly have no idea how Incorgnito is doing or how the authors there are fairing. After Michael took over the contracts and purchased the associated assets, I stopped tracking those authors. I don't own any portion of that company, and have had no business dealings with Michael since Zharmae was closed. Why do you ask?
 

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How has that gone for you? Have any of the books you've packaged sold through, or hit the best-seller lists, or anything notable? Who have you packaged for?

I note on your website you state your prices:


I have a few issues with that price list.

For example, you're offering to develop a single title for $5k, with art and design an extra $500: but if you're packaging books then you should be delivering printed copies, fully done, to the company you're packaging the title for. I'm not sure your understanding of book packaging matches mine.

And another thing: you're offering "Manuscript CPR" to include a copy edit, proofreading and review: are you charging for writing reviews of books you've edited? That's a huge conflict of interests if you are. Charging money for a guaranteed good review is pretty shonky: it makes a mockery of all reviews you provide.



I haven't had time to look at Goosebumps, but I suspect Stine wrote all of the books in the early days and that more recently some of the writing has been farmed out.



What is "franchise style content"? What is "
a saga or collective world style"? Yes, I can make a guess at what you mean but if you can't articulate your ideas clearly you're going to struggle in this business.

You don't have distribution, so you aren't placed to sell enough copies to make this work.



And now you're going to need distribution in other territories, and to understand the foreign and translation market as well as the US market, but you still haven't got a proper grasp of the US market. Travis, you're making the same mistakes again.




I hope it goes well for you, but I see so many holes in your plans.

As I said in my earlier post, if you want to work in publishing get a job in publishing and learn the business first. Because right now, you don't know what you're getting wrong and have little chance of making a success at this.

Hi Old Hack,

Packaging may be a stretch as you typically define it, we generally provide print/eBook ready content, and if requested to manage printing (most clients already have print agreements in place and don't request this) I generally work to connect them with Thompson-Shore. As I noted, it has at least been profitable. I farm out reviews to established book bloggers with the caveat that I can't guarantee a positive review to the client. We ask reviewers either not to post reviews they can't honestly give a 4 or 5-star review too, or that they delay posting until at least 90 days after publication.

By franchise style, I am meaning that we would research the market and create a branded targeted set of characters, world, etc, and develop and extended saga (7+ books) allowing for the continued world development of the series and characters and enabling greater marketing efficiency by being able to provide continued marketing focus to a narrow brand. An older example might by the Gor Saga by John Norman, in terms of a continuous series all with similar settings (not necessarily the chauvinism).

From a marketing perspective, the LGBT and Minority market, along with the domestic Spanish market are greatly underserved. From a distribution perspective, I think we'd be primarily focused on eBook sales, I've worked with Ingram before, so I understand their requirements for placement. I've already reached out and they are willing to support this venture. We would not be targeting markets outside the US, Canada, and Brazil, and I have a few contacts in Brazil that would work with me in that market.


I mean, if I pay for somone's time does it really matter what I do with the content?
 
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Round Two

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Hello Round Two,

I define successful as profitable. Whorde has delivered an average of 1-2 projects per week, and the projects with ongoing clients typically run $4,500. Some clients have ongoing agreements that discount that price to $3,500. I haven't had a need to pick up new clients for Whorde in over a year, about 80% of the work is with studios who have had us sign confidentiality agreements for the projects.

Well, I confess, I don't understand your model or why it's working, but it sounds like you're doing well for yourself. Perhaps I'm the fool.

I honestly have no idea how Incorgnito is doing or how the authors there are fairing. After Michael took over the contracts and purchased the associated assets, I stopped tracking those authors. I don't own any portion of that company, and have had no business dealings with Michael since Zharmae was closed. Why do you ask?

I figured you'd keep some attention in that direction as they were your authors. Michael, as you may remember had a fairly <i>strong</i> reaction to some of the feedback he was given and he seemed awfully confident in his ability to do well by his authors (including the former Zharmae). Not knowing anything besides what's on his website it looks like results may have fallen short of aspirations. Curious if you had any insight, but it sounds like you don't.
 

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Well, I confess, I don't understand your model or why it's working, but it sounds like you're doing well for yourself. Perhaps I'm the fool.



I figured you'd keep some attention in that direction as they were your authors. Michael, as you may remember had a fairly <i>strong</i> reaction to some of the feedback he was given and he seemed awfully confident in his ability to do well by his authors (including the former Zharmae). Not knowing anything besides what's on his website it looks like results may have fallen short of aspirations. Curious if you had any insight, but it sounds like you don't.

Whorde managed to hit the right tone with the right people. I had a decent break with that one.

I wish Michael and my former authors well.
 

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Whorde managed to hit the right tone with the right people. I had a decent break with that one.

Has it, though? Has it?

I just had a look at Whorde's FB page and it only has one review -- yours. You gave it 5 stars in August 2015. 595 people like the page and it has 573 follows. The posts don't have very many likes. The company's name is a homophone for whored, which is...well...I have no opinion.
 

Evil Overlord

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My experience with Zharmae is noted in previous posts in this very thread.

We signed a contract. I didn't hear anything for a year, and received no payment. I followed up. I finally got a response (from the same e-mail address as before) when I wrote to rescind the contract.

My material was never used, so the only thing I lost was time. But that's enough for me.
 

Round Two

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Has it, though? Has it?

I just had a look at Whorde's FB page and it only has one review -- yours. You gave it 5 stars in August 2015. 595 people like the page and it has 573 follows. The posts don't have very many likes. The company's name is a homophone for whored, which is...well...I have no opinion.

Not much of a footprint at all on Google. Facebook is sparse.

Also think the name choice is....
 

Round Two

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Whorde managed to hit the right tone with the right people. I had a decent break with that one.

I wish Michael and my former authors well.

Have Whorde projects been turned into movies? Books that are for sale commercially? I'm not asking you for specific project names. But, generally speaking, has any of the content you've created made money?
 

Polenth

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From a marketing perspective, the LGBT and Minority market, along with the domestic Spanish market are greatly underserved.

I wondered if this might be your niche, as you were aiming that way with Zharmae. That was part of the problem, because you were attracting authors from groups who struggle to break into publishing, but had things set up so that they'd stay struggling. People kept telling you the problems and you ignored it. You did it with a smile, which was enough to make people believe you were listening on a quick glance at the thread, but you never changed. You saw an underserved market and ended up exploiting people within it.

It seems unlikely that you're going to shower your writers with money and act on any feedback given to make the business fair. You had years to do that before and never did. But what is likely is that people will glance at this thread, see you've said you're committed to change, and not realise the history. So I'm laying out the history. I don't want to see any more authors harmed because you know how to act like you're listening.

If you are really wanting to change this time, my advice is to write this series you have planned yourself. If it's successful, you will have the money to hire people to work on it. If it's not, you're the only one who took a risk.