Young Adult & Middle Grade definitions?

Gavin23 · Sep 5, 2011

I think I'm writing a book for Young Adults, the protagonist is 17 and it seems to fit in with the general guidelines on young adult.

I was just wondering what is the general age considered as young adult? I'm 20. I am an adult, and would consider myself relatively young, so am I a young adult? What about when I'm 25??

Also, what age is MG aimed at? I'm guessing 15ish, but as I'm from the UK our school systems are different, we have no Middle Grade.

Finally.. What is the difference between Urban Fantasy and Fantasy?

Thanks for the help

romcomgirl · Sep 5, 2011

Since your character's 17, you are writing a young adult book.

But 20 isn't considered a young adult. By then, you are already an adult.

Middle Grade is from 8-12 years old.

Urban Fantasy has to take place in an urban setting. As for fantasy, it's very broad and there are many subsets of it, Urban Fantasy being one of them.

Marzipan · Sep 5, 2011

Head over to the YA section and read all of the stickies. That should give you a better idea. You could also post a few paragraphs of your WIP in the Share Your Work section for more feedback. Just because your character is a teenager does not always make your WIP Young Adult Fiction

Welcome to AW and good luck.

M. Scott · Sep 6, 2011

Roughly speaking, I'd say Middle-Grade titles aim for ages 8-12. These tend to be about 40k words.

Young Adult is a much broader category. In general, I'd say ages thirteen and up. However, these tend to have a much wider appeal to varied age groups. Is a forty-year-old going to pick up a Twilight knockoff? I'd hope not, but even Hunger Games is considered YA, and is widely read by adults.

For me, I tend to define the category by two things: length and content. In MG, keep it 30-40k and exclude strong language. Some violent content or sexual themes might leak in, but nothing detailed.

YA is another matter. I keep the main character a hair younger (below 18) and don't shy away from any themes. Some strong language is there, and any violent content is thoroughly explained.

Adult/commercial - Pretty much anything goes. If I want to get so detailed with gore that the reader vomits, I will.

Gavin23 · Sep 6, 2011

Thanks for all of your help. I find it difficult because I am admittedly quite childish in my reading, so I never know which age group a book is for

Celesta · Sep 6, 2011

YA is about 12-21 years old. It can contain romance, violence and things of that nature, but not explicitly as it is done in adult fiction.

MG fiction doesn't usually have those things at all or if it does only in a very fantasy-like or non-realistic way.

Gavin23 · Sep 7, 2011

Everybody seems to have slightly different opinions, so i'm guessing that like most everything, there are no absolute rules, more... guidelines

JohnAtPlotForge · Sep 7, 2011

Gavin23 said:
I think I'm writing a book for Young Adults, the protagonist is 17 and it seems to fit in with the general guidelines on young adult.

I was just wondering what is the general age considered as young adult? I'm 20. I am an adult, and would consider myself relatively young, so am I a young adult? What about when I'm 25??

Also, what age is MG aimed at? I'm guessing 15ish, but as I'm from the UK our school systems are different, we have no Middle Grade.

Finally.. What is the difference between Urban Fantasy and Fantasy?

Thanks for the help

Gavin,

Got to warn you, a 17 year old protag in a YA novel is going to be a tough sell. We've just been through that. Had a lot of positives on our FORESEEN concept, but the 17 year old YA - who happened to be a girl, was a show stopper. Yeah, you do hear that this is acceptable but in our experience, most YA agents are going to pass.

The reality is, there are very few books out there with protags between 17 and 25. Whether you agree with this or not there is a reason for it: Westerners this age are in college. They are busy and not reading all that much. You may counter by saying, younger kids would read it. And you'd be right. But most agents won't. Sad but true.

If there is any way you could change the age of your character to be younger it'd make your book a lot more appealing to most YA agents - regardless of what they might tell you. You should strongly consider this now, before you put a year into something that is going to be an extremely tough sell in the YA market.

That said, is there any way you could recast the book as SF or Fantasy. Or even paranormal? You didn't say anything about plot so it might be a non-starter, but if you can, your protag's age is much more acceptable in these genres.

Make sure you educate yourself about genre. I thought I had mine right in YA and marketed my work that way. Didn't get zip. I finally realized my writing was closer to SF. I started marketing it accordingly and got an offer for a three book deal within six weeks. I don't know if I'll take it as the deal isn't great, but it definitely shows that proper marketing goes a long way. I recently wrote a blog post on the subject of knowing your market. You might take a look at it. Know Your Literary Market.

I'd think long and hard about both of these points. If you're going YA, make the protag at least a year younger. If you want the protag older, see if you've got the right genre. YA isn't just about having a young character, it's about voice. Again, see the blog post.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

suki · Sep 7, 2011

YA and MG are marketing categories based on age of the target readership - not the actual readership. That means, the terms apply to books of all kinds of genres, but are defined for marketing and shelving purposes by the primary target audience.

The general rule is MG = target readers 8-12ish, and YA = target readers 12ish-18. Yes, there is overlap. And it's not perfect because it's really about market - ie, reader of any age, if you liked this book, you'll like this other book.

As a general rule, YA will have characters from 14-18, with 15-17 being the sweet spot. 17 is absolutely not too old for YA. College-age protagonists will usually be seen as too old for YA.

A lot more goes into whether a book is YA or Adult than the age of the characters, so if you have a 17 year old main character, it could be YA, or it could be adult.

MG will generally have characters under 14, and the age of the character will usually be 1-2 years older than the target age of the reader.

All of these are generallities, and there are few hard and fast rules. But, for debut novels, the "usual" parameters matter more.

JohnAtPlotForge said:
Gavin,

Got to warn you, a 17 year old protag in a YA novel is going to be a tough sell. We've just been through that. Had a lot of positives on our FORESEEN concept, but the 17 year old YA - who happened to be a girl, was a show stopper. Yeah, you do hear that this is acceptable but in our experience, most YA agents are going to pass.

The reality is, there are very few books out there with protags between 17 and 25. Whether you agree with this or not there is a reason for it: Westerners this age are in college. They are busy and not reading all that much. You may counter by saying, younger kids would read it. And you'd be right. But most agents won't. Sad but true.

If there is any way you could change the age of your character to be younger it'd make your book a lot more appealing to most YA agents - regardless of what they might tell you. You should strongly consider this now, before you put a year into something that is going to be an extremely tough sell in the YA market.

That said, is there any way you could recast the book as SF or Fantasy. Or even paranormal? You didn't say anything about plot so it might be a non-starter, but if you can, your protag's age is much more acceptable in these genres.

Make sure you educate yourself about genre. I thought I had mine right in YA and marketed my work that way. Didn't get zip. I finally realized my writing was closer to SF. I started marketing it accordingly and got an offer for a three book deal within six weeks. I don't know if I'll take it as the deal isn't great, but it definitely shows that proper marketing goes a long way. I recently wrote a blog post on the subject of knowing your market. You might take a look at it. Know Your Literary Market.

I'd think long and hard about both of these points. If you're going YA, make the protag at least a year younger. If you want the protag older, see if you've got the right genre. YA isn't just about having a young character, it's about voice. Again, see the blog post.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Actually, this is inaccurate. There are a great many YA novels out there with a 17 year old main character. 18 gets dicier, older than 18 much, much more difficult. 15-16 is the sweet spot for YA, but 17 is perfectly acceptable and there are many, many YAs with 17 year old main characters.

Now, whether your 17 year old main character and plot were a good fit for YA is a different story, and I can't say. But 17 year old main characters are very, very common in YA.

~suki

Marzipan · Sep 7, 2011

Gavin,

Got to warn you, a 17 year old protag in a YA novel is going to be a tough sell. We've just been through that. Had a lot of positives on our FORESEEN concept, but the 17 year old YA - who happened to be a girl, was a show stopper. Yeah, you do hear that this is acceptable but in our experience, most YA agents are going to pass.

The reality is, there are very few books out there with protags between 17 and 25. Whether you agree with this or not there is a reason for it: Westerners this age are in college. They are busy and not reading all that much. You may counter by saying, younger kids would read it. And you'd be right. But most agents won't. Sad but true.

If there is any way you could change the age of your character to be younger it'd make your book a lot more appealing to most YA agents - regardless of what they might tell you. You should strongly consider this now, before you put a year into something that is going to be an extremely tough sell in the YA market.

That said, is there any way you could recast the book as SF or Fantasy. Or even paranormal? You didn't say anything about plot so it might be a non-starter, but if you can, your protag's age is much more acceptable in these genres.

Make sure you educate yourself about genre. I thought I had mine right in YA and marketed my work that way. Didn't get zip. I finally realized my writing was closer to SF. I started marketing it accordingly and got an offer for a three book deal within six weeks. I don't know if I'll take it as the deal isn't great, but it definitely shows that proper marketing goes a long way. I recently wrote a blog post on the subject of knowing your market. You might take a look at it. Know Your Literary Market.

I'd think long and hard about both of these points. If you're going YA, make the protag at least a year younger. If you want the protag older, see if you've got the right genre. YA isn't just about having a young character, it's about voice. Again, see the blog post.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

What is your source on this statement? In the US most of high school seniors are 17. I can pick any random YA off the shelf at any book store and more than likely that book's MC is going to be 16 or 17. I'm not trying to be rude to you but I feel a little baffled by what you posted.

Gavin23 · Sep 8, 2011

Firstly thanks for you're comments, and also thank you for getting a bit of discussion going on this thread, which is what I wanted!

That said I don't quite agree with a few of you points.

JohnAtPlotForge said:
Got to warn you, a 17 year old protag in a YA novel is going to be a tough sell. We've just been through that. Had a lot of positives on our FORESEEN concept, but the 17 year old YA - who happened to be a girl, was a show stopper. Yeah, you do hear that this is acceptable but in our experience, most YA agents are going to pass.

In the Twilight series, arguably ONE of the biggest YA novels around at the moment, Bella Swan, the protagonist.. is a 17 year old girl? I understand that you may have had a different experience but I too have seen several books with a 17 year old.

JohnAtPlotForge said:
The reality is, there are very few books out there with protags between 17 and 25. Whether you agree with this or not there is a reason for it: Westerners this age are in college. They are busy and not reading all that much. You may counter by saying, younger kids would read it. And you'd be right. But most agents won't. Sad but true.

I think saying that everyone between 17 and 25 in college and not reading much is slightly simplistic. Yes a lot of people are in college and may be out partying a lot, but if they like to read.. they will still read. I am a perfect example of this, (i'm 20 by the way.)

I'm also from the UK, and i'm not sure what you do in America, but over here we don't go to University until 18-19.

It is a fantasy style book, but I think it would appeal much more to younger readers than adults, so with all due respect, I hope that your comments are very untrue!

That being said, thank you all the same for you comments, and congratulations on your offers on your book

Gavin23 · Sep 8, 2011

suki said:
YA and MG are marketing categories based on age of the target readership - not the actual readership. That means, the terms apply to books of all kinds of genres, but are defined for marketing and shelving purposes by the primary target audience.

The general rule is MG = target readers 8-12ish, and YA = target readers 12ish-18. Yes, there is overlap. And it's not perfect because it's really about market - ie, reader of any age, if you liked this book, you'll like this other book.

As a general rule, YA will have characters from 14-18, with 15-17 being the sweet spot. 17 is absolutely not too old for YA. College-age protagonists will usually be seen as too old for YA.

A lot more goes into whether a book is YA or Adult than the age of the characters, so if you have a 17 year old main character, it could be YA, or it could be adult.

MG will generally have characters under 14, and the age of the character will usually be 1-2 years older than the target age of the reader.

All of these are generallities, and there are few hard and fast rules. But, for debut novels, the "usual" parameters matter more.

This is exactly what I was looking for, Thanks

Allaboutwords13 · Sep 8, 2011

I'm 25 and I still class myself as a young adult. It's not really how old you are, it's how you feel. Some people take YA age rule too seriously. I mean, I post a lot in the Teens Writing For Teens thread. There's nothing to say I can't.

JohnAtPlotForge · Sep 8, 2011

Gavin23 said:
It is a fantasy style book, but I think it would appeal much more to younger readers than adults, so with all due respect, I hope that your comments are very untrue!

I'd think long and hard about where I targeted this book, and do NOT think that because Twilight is fantasy and is generally regarded as YA, that your book will get the same treatment. There are a ton of SF/Fantasy with young main characters. A much higher percentage than YA stories that are Fantasy. Don't quote Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, and Twilight. These are anomalies. Vampires are a special case that will one of these days run it's course.

And don't forget about Paranormal and Urban Paranormal. Whether you are writing YA or not isn't the issue here, and I'm not saying you are or that you aren't. I don't care. I'm only stressing that as an unpublished writer you need to dispense with self-categorizations and target the market where you have the greatest chance of success. If you go out looking for specific information that backs up your notions you can be guaranteed of finding it. More difficult is to critically asses your work and decide where it should go in spite of where you want it to go. I would see you avoid the delays that my preconceived notions caused me.

Someone said YA is about more than age. I can't agree more. YA is about 'voice' far more than it is about age of the protag. If you love YA and read a ton of it, then your book may fit there and I wish you all success in getting it placed.

Sage · Sep 8, 2011

Please come on over to the YA forum and read and join the threads over there. In particular this one deals specifically with YA vs. MG vs. adult: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164605

A 17-year-old protag fits perfectly fine into YA. Things such as voice and theme can also determine whether it's YA or an adult novel with a teen protagonist.

suki · Sep 9, 2011

Allaboutwords13 said:
I'm 25 and I still class myself as a young adult. It's not really how old you are, it's how you feel. Some people take YA age rule too seriously. I mean, I post a lot in the Teens Writing For Teens thread. There's nothing to say I can't.

Yes, but YA as a marketing category is about the target readership for books.

We're not talking about who reads YA - or who considers themself a "young adult" - we are talking about what books are classified as YA. Big difference

~suki

Inkblot · Oct 9, 2011

Just to confuse the issue even more, I read that the Pullman Trilogy (The Golden Compass, etc.) -- which featured a 9 year old protagonist (initially) -- was classified in some bookstores as YA, some as adult fantasy, and some as both.

Young Adult & Middle Grade definitions?

Gavin23

Dum Spiro, Spero.

romcomgirl

Marzipan

M. Scott

2024 will be my year!

Gavin23

Dum Spiro, Spero.

Celesta

loves writing :)

Gavin23

Dum Spiro, Spero.

JohnAtPlotForge

Ask me about plot. I'm the best.

suki

Opinionated

Marzipan

Gavin23

Dum Spiro, Spero.

Gavin23

Dum Spiro, Spero.

Allaboutwords13

You Snooze, You Lose!

JohnAtPlotForge

Ask me about plot. I'm the best.

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

suki

Opinionated

Inkblot

New kid, be gentle!