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Musa Publishing

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By comparison, my debut erotic romance came out a year ago from Loose Id, and sold 125 copies the first month - from LI's site. Sales have risen and fallen since, but the overall sales have made me really happy. LI sent out review copies. They have a big web community, strong advertising presence in genre and industry magazines, they've been around long enough to appear stable, and (at least for me) haven't been overly dramatic in the editorial or accounting departments. Just being in the LI catalog gave me some legitimacy. I have done minor giveaways, weekly online promotion on a 12K-member romance reader group, and a few blog hops.

LI was one of seven e-pubs that I queried. Mainstream publishers were out, because of graphic content. Two pubs made an offer, and LI's offer came first and sounded better.
(For honesty's sake, Musa rejected on content).

Would Musa be a good small press for authors with specific expectations, and the savvy to do their own promo? Possibly. They have some good editors and cover artists. Some of their authors seem to sell really well. But if my debut had sold under 50 copies in a year, I would not send another mms.
 

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Ah. That explains a great deal. So the only readers to see the ads are those who follow this particular publisher. The trick with that, though, is that it relies on readers even knowing the publisher exists to go find the list of authors.

This is such an important point, Cathy.

It's all very well for authors to use Twitter and Facebook to promote their own work: but their tweets and posts will probably only be seen by people who have already followed or liked them. They're in a closed loop, and that really restricts their reach and the effectiveness of any promotional work they do online.

When publishers also restrict their marketing and promotional efforts to a similarly closed loop, they're not going to be effective. And they're not going to sell many copies as a result.

If Musa depends on Twitter and Facebook to promote its own books, then it is promoting its work to those who already know about it--and they are going to be its own writers. Which isn't a particularly effective way of working.

I'm quite active on Twitter, and buy a lot (a LOT!) of books through the recommendations I receive there. Many of those books come from people I don't follow and haven't heard of, because their publishers are so good at promoting them there.

I have seen books from other e-publishers mentioned on Twitter, but I can't recall ever having seen a Musa book mentioned there.

I worry about a company that is now well beyond a start-up in terms of age (this thread was started in 8/11) that's still acting like a start-up.

When Musa first started I was concerned that it would struggle to publish books effectively because of the huge numbers of books on its publication schedule. I was told by its principal, in no uncertain terms, that I didn't understand how e-publishing works and I was finding problems where no problems existed. I so hoped to be proved wrong.
 

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When Musa first started I was concerned that it would struggle to publish books effectively because of the huge numbers of books on its publication schedule. I was told by its principal, in no uncertain terms, that I didn't understand how e-publishing works and I was finding problems where no problems existed. I so hoped to be proved wrong.

This has been my concern as well. Too much, too fast. Such a shame.

- Victoria
 

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My SF novel The Radiance came out in February of 2012, and quickly sank beneath the waves. I never saw any publicity concerning it, but as my family and I were going through some issues at the time, frankly I wasn't paying that much attention. All I know is I wasn't promoting it much, and from the results, they weren't either.

That said, I think to date it's old less than twenty copies. When the rights finally revert I may try self-pubbing it.

Or I may just leave the damned thing in its grave.
 

Jamiekswriter

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Yeah, I'm a little concerned about my release next week. But I'm giving it my best shot, promo-wise. I'm doing 25 stop blog tour, giving away Matroyska earrings to commenters, and a Russian coin. I'm reading in Manhattan this Friday and I'm going to pimp the book there. I'm going to run a contest on my blog giving away a European charm bracelet with a nesting doll charm. I've got my street team who are going to help me promote the release via social media and solicit honest goodreads and amazon reviews. I'm giving away a raffle basket at our RWA writing convention in a few weeks and will be handing out swag to over 100 participants. So keep your fingers crossed for me. I'll report back how it worked. But I'm going to register the Amazon URL at Novelrank.com on the 13th so I can obsessively check my Amazon numbers when I'm not obsessively checking my Delphi numbers on Musa. :D I'd love the company in crazyland. LOL.
 

seun

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Good on you, Jamie. I really hope all that equals massive sales for you. At the risk of sounding like I'm being negative, my worry is while you're doing all that, you don't have time to write. I'd also ask what Musa is doing for you at the same time as your own promo.
 

Fae Sutherland

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I don't know that we can compare erotic M/M short story sales to horror short story sales in an epub market? Samhain sells horror scifi, fantasy, and romance. I almost never see the horror shorts, novellas or novels on the Samhain best seller lists except the ones that are being offered free.

I agree that erotic vs horror isn't a fair comparison, but we've heard plenty of stories in this thread of ALL genres selling as poorly as Haunted october's books. It's not just a horror short that isn't selling anything, it's across the board. That's my point. It's not just her. It's the vast, vast majority of their list selling so poorly. That's how you know it's a publisher problem, not a problem with the books themselves.

I don't understand. You say that you know your EC sales were "very small beans" compared to NY publishing, but then your last paragraph makes it sound like you think people choose e-publishing over NY publishing. Can you clarify why you think people would choose to publish their work through a publisher they know will get them lower sales? (I'm assuming that all of the issues I mentioned in my original post mean that the author isn't really choosing, since NY wouldn't want their work).

See, I don't assume that all those things you mentioned means it's not still a choice for authors to not go the NY route.

Myself, for example. For the last 6 years I CHOSE to write what I loved, M/M romance, despite the fact that NY won't touch it. I could have CHOSEN to write something more mainstream and make more money, but I wanted to write the things that moved me, that mattered to me. That is a choice I made, to take less money and epublish the things I wanted to write rather than write something NY would want. I know plenty of authors who, for various reasons, chose to do things their way rather than conforming to NY. That's still a choice. I think you're saying that just because NY doesn't want, say M/M books or shorts or whatever other content they refuse to consider, that they've by default 'rejected' that work so it's not the author's choice anymore. I greatly disagree but I don't think that's a conversation for this thread. :)
 

Jamiekswriter

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Oh thanks Seun! Me too!!

I've got plenty of time to write, though. I write from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. most nights. I'm on deadline, though, with a book due on 9/15 (Entangled) and another due on 11/1 (Random House) so I'm writing from 8 p.m. to midnight. And all day on the weekends. (My husband *hates* me :D -- actually he's very supportive thank goodness). I do the social media stuff and blog tour posts etc. on my lunch hour at work and at odd times of the day when I've got a moment.

But you raise a good point. I'm not sure what Musa is doing promo-wise -- if anything. I'd like to think on the backend they're sending my books out to review sites. But no one has ever contacted me and said they were doing so. I'll ego google myself in the coming weeks to see if anyone picked me up that I didn't arrange and let you guys know.

I know they were worried about review sites pirating the work at one point, but I don't know if they solved the situation or if it was just a one time thing.

I know they don't offer their books on Netgalley because they told me it was cost prohibitive.

Regarding other promos, I'm pretty sure I'll be on the Musa social media sites the day I release and I can probably post on their blog during that week. Although I haven't scheduled that yet. (mental note to do that).

They also allow you to purchase a print run for marketing purposes (like if you were going to submit to the RITAs and needed a print copy or if you do a Goodreads promotion and need a hard copy.) I may or may not do that depending on the cost and the minimum amount I need to buy. I can't resell them, because that's against my contract so I'll have to decide if the print run will have a good ROI.

But that's the long and short of what Musa provides for marketing and promotion. As far as I know, anyway. They could be doing more, but if they are it's not for my project. I know the Roger Rabbit book is getting a huge push, but that's because it's Roger Rabbit.

I guess here's what they provided me and why I chose to go with Musa:

1. A great cover. Kelly Shorten is incredible.
2. Great editing. I learned a few things from my editor, Daenariea, that helped my writing.
3. They're going to format it for all the venues.

These three things alone are why I wouldn't want to self-publish. I don't want to deal with any of that. That would take time from my writing. But that's just me and YMMV.

4. Quick acceptance turnaround. Quick contract turnaround.
5. The contract terms were *excellent*. The only quibble was no advance, but I knew that going in.
6. Musa Delphi author portal just made everything so much easier and like I said, I'm going to be refreshing that sales tab every hour :D
7. I like Celina and her crew professionally and think they work very hard, are honest, and are driven to succeed.

Sales and Marketing are definitely their weak areas though.
 
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Old Hack

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Yeah, I'm a little concerned about my release next week. But I'm giving it my best shot, promo-wise. I'm doing 25 stop blog tour, giving away Matroyska earrings to commenters, and a Russian coin. I'm reading in Manhattan this Friday and I'm going to pimp the book there. I'm going to run a contest on my blog giving away a European charm bracelet with a nesting doll charm. I've got my street team who are going to help me promote the release via social media and solicit honest goodreads and amazon reviews. I'm giving away a raffle basket at our RWA writing convention in a few weeks and will be handing out swag to over 100 participants. So keep your fingers crossed for me. I'll report back how it worked. But I'm going to register the Amazon URL at Novelrank.com on the 13th so I can obsessively check my Amazon numbers when I'm not obsessively checking my Delphi numbers on Musa. :D I'd love the company in crazyland. LOL.

Jamie, I hope Musa is at least covering the cost of all those things you're giving away. It sounds terribly expensive to me and, given the sorts of sales we've seen reported here, I'm concerned that you won't earn any significant portion of that cost back in royalties on sales made.

I wish you the best of luck with it, though.

I agree that erotic vs horror isn't a fair comparison, but we've heard plenty of stories in this thread of ALL genres selling as poorly as Haunted october's books. It's not just a horror short that isn't selling anything, it's across the board. That's my point. It's not just her. It's the vast, vast majority of their list selling so poorly. That's how you know it's a publisher problem, not a problem with the books themselves.

Agreed.
 

Old Hack

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I know they were worried about review sites pirating the work at one point, but I don't know if they solved the situation or if it was just a one time thing.

Then they were sending books out to the wrong review sites.

I know they don't offer their books on Netgalley because they told me it was cost prohibitive.

The publishers I've worked with maintain their own detailed mailing lists for review copies. They might also use Netgalley, but the cost of sending out review copies is part of doing business as a publisher: it's cost-effective when it's done right, not prohibitive, because it generates sales.

Regarding other promos, I'm pretty sure I'll be on the Musa social media sites the day I release and I can probably post on their blog during that week. Although I haven't scheduled that yet. (mental note to do that).

They tweet about you on release day and that's pretty much all the effort they make to sell your books? That's nowhere near enough.

They also allow you to purchase a print run for marketing purposes (like if you were going to submit to the RITAs and needed a print copy or if you do a Goodreads promotion and need a hard copy.) I may or may not do that depending on the cost and the minimum amount I need to buy. I can't resell them, because that's against my contract so I'll have to decide if the print run will have a good ROI.

Again, this is so wrong that I'm not sure I've understood this right. They allow their writers to buy print copies in order to use them for promotional purposes? That's so way out of line that I'm flabbergasted. Publishers should send out review copies, and writers should not have to pay anything to make sure this gets done. It's one of the many things they're meant to do in return for keeping the lion's share of the book's purchase-price.
 

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Hi Old Hack.

No, they're not going to reimburse me for my giveaways. Of course, I never thought to ask. I've never heard of any publisher reimbursing for swag. Maybe a big 6 would provide postcards and bookmarks to a high named author, but I'm not at that level yet. (yet :D)

(The swag's not that expensive. I'm a jewelry maker too so I get my supplies at cost. The biggest cost was my postcards from Vistaprint, but I had a Groupon. And the raffle basket, but I'm donating that to my RWA chapter to make money for them. I would have done a raffle basket anyway, this just coincides nicely with my release.)
 
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Jamiekswriter

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Again, this is so wrong that I'm not sure I've understood this right. They allow their writers to buy print copies in order to use them for promotional purposes? That's so way out of line that I'm flabbergasted. Publishers should send out review copies, and writers should not have to pay anything to make sure this gets done. It's one of the many things they're meant to do in return for keeping the lion's share of the book's purchase-price.

I can see where you're coming from, but remember Musa doesn't do print sales. They don't have a print run. They're ebook only. No one will be purchasing the print books.

The print copies, as I understand it, are made available as a courtesy to the authors who need them for contest entries, Goodreads who only allows a print book for their contests, etc. (or Christmas presents I guess). Musa formats the covers and the text for the print run and the authors -- if they need/want it place the order.

The next print run is in October. I can fill in more details later.
 
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Old Hack

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Good publishers tend to help their authors with the cost of promotional activities regardless of the authors' reputations and publishing history. It has very little to do with how successful the author is, but a lot to do with how professional the publisher is.
 

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Hi Old Hack.

No, they're not going to reimburse me for my giveaways. Of course, I never thought to ask. I've never heard of any publisher reimbursing for swag. Maybe a big 6 would provide postcards and bookmarks to a high named author, but I'm not at that level yet. (yet :D)

Both Carina and EC will provide free convention/book signing swag such as cover flats for signings, bookmarks and postcards. They'll both also print copies of books for contests like the Rita at zero cost to the author (any author, not just 'high named' ones). Because big contests like that are good for business, they want their authors to enter.

ETA: I will clarify that I'm not entirely sure EC still does this, they did the last time I pubbed with them, which was 2010, so things may have changed.
 

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Both Carina and EC will provide free convention/book signing swag such as cover flats for signings, bookmarks and postcards. They'll both also print copies of books for contests like the Rita at zero cost to the author (any author, not just 'high named' ones). Because big contests like that are good for business, they want their authors to enter.
QUOTE]

Wow! I had no idea. Thank you for posting this.
 

Old Hack

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I can see where you're coming from, but remember Musa doesn't do print sales. They don't have a print run. They're ebook only. No one will be purchasing the print books.

The print copies, as I understand it, are made available as a courtesy to the authors who need them for contest entries, Goodreads who only allows a print book for their contests, etc. (or Christmas presents I guess). Musa formats the covers and the text for the print run and the authors -- if they need/want it place the order.

The next print run is in October. I can fill in more details later.

It doesn't matter whether Musa does print-runs or not: if print copies are required for these various promotions, then Musa should be covering the cost of them.

Writers get paid royalties for the books they sell; if they're going to do all the promotion too, that's bad enough; but if they have to shell out what little cash they have to buy copies of their own books in order to promote their own books, then that's wrong. Such costs should be covered by the publisher's costs, as set out in the P&L forecasts. If publishers can't or won't cover these costs, then the publisher isn't doing its job.
 

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Writers get paid royalties for the books they sell; if they're going to do all the promotion too, that's bad enough; but if they have to shell out what little cash they have to buy copies of their own books in order to promote their own books, then that's wrong. Such costs should be covered by the publisher's costs, as set out in the P&L forecasts. If publishers can't or won't cover these costs, then the publisher isn't doing its job.

Thank you for taking the time to post this, Old Hack. This is all very interesting to me.

I don't think an author *has* to buy copies of their own books to promote it. No one *has* to do a GR promo or enter the RITA. I've had a lot of success with GR giveaways so it's something I'm considering.

I get a copy of my book in all the e-formats and I can offer promotions/giveaways based on them.

And thank you for your kind words about my release. It's going to be a fun ride. You can bet I'll be reporting back!
 

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Exactly how does this work for authors? And for Musa? Are you allowed to do with those promo copies whatever you want? Can you sell them anywhere, to anyone? Does Musa make any profit or royalties off your promo print books? The whole promo print run strikes me as vanity press-ish.
 

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As far as I can recall, the author can sell them at signings, but not online. But I'd have to check the contract to be sure. It's the same sort of discount as my other e-publishers who provide author copies, except it's a print run instead of POD...? I've never had hard copies via a print run before, just POD trade paperbacks, so I'd have to see a physical copy before determining if they're better quality or not.
 

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Yeah, the where you can and can't sell them was complicated. If you sell them online, like through your website or anything it violates the Musa contract since it's a competing version of their product. But you can sell them at promotional stuff in person so long as it's not through a POS system of a bookstore, or something? I don't know if I'm remembering that right. But I do know you use them as giveaways, review copies, book signings, and gifts.

The copyeditor and content editor still get their cut of royalties when the author orders the books, I don't know what that cut is but lord knows they deserve it. Otherwise Musa doesn't actually profit off the promo books at all, despite the work they put into doing all the formatting stuff to put it in print.

I actually had the same thought as snOOpy when I read about the promo print program, plus the books are expensive. Like not individually, but you have to order a lot of them at once. Still, they don't force it on the authors, I've never been pressured to order the promo books, and I do actually kind of like that it's an option. Do any other e-only publishers even offer promo print copies as an option?
 

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I don't understand. You say that you know your EC sales were "very small beans" compared to NY publishing, but then your last paragraph makes it sound like you think people choose e-publishing over NY publishing. Can you clarify why you think people would choose to publish their work through a publisher they know will get them lower sales? (I'm assuming that all of the issues I mentioned in my original post mean that the author isn't really choosing, since NY wouldn't want their work).

(And I agree with those who say you really can't compare erotica to horror in terms of online sales. I'm not saying Musa is doing a good job, but for whatever reasons, horror is a harder sell online).
I chose it because it seemed like it would be a lot faster! I chose to write with the epub market in mind, write erotic romance, and aim for the best epubs because it seemed a more realistic goal than NY. I was intimidated by the stories of how long agents and NY take. :Shrug:
Maybe it is something I will try down the track. I It seems like there are so many digital first opportunities now as well though.
 
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Haunted_October

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I chose epub for the short story and novella because it seemed to be the best choice for getting my name out there in the horror genre. My full-length novels I would prefer to be NY, and I'm querying agents now.
 

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Yeah, the where you can and can't sell them was complicated. If you sell them online, like through your website or anything it violates the Musa contract since it's a competing version of their product.

But if the author already bought them:
They also allow you to purchase a print run for marketing purposes...

...then how is it a competing product? The publisher already made the sale (unfortunately, to the author).

The publisher has already been paid for that copy. Why should the author be restricted in trying to also get paid for it?
 
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plus the books are expensive. Like not individually, but you have to order a lot of them at once. Still, they don't force it on the authors, I've never been pressured to order the promo books, and I do actually kind of like that it's an option. Do any other e-only publishers even offer promo print copies as an option?

If you don't mind, how many do you have to order at a time?

I'm only asking because this seems like one of the times that would be perfectly served by a POD run rather than a print run. (As I understand it print runs decrease in cost as the number of books printed increases. POD remains constant in cost. Unless I've gotten it wrong.)
 
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