Musa Publishing

Old Hack said:

I don't think anyone here is dismissing Musa, nor is Musa being criticised for its policy of e-first (I'll admit I thought Musa was an e-only publisher, so there you go), nor is anyone steering authors away from working with e-publishers. I'm surprised you got those impressions from this discussion, and if you are then you're either reading stuff which isn't really there into what's been said here, or you've made some rather unwise leaps of logic.

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I think I got that impression mostly from you, when you said:

Ever since people stepped into this thread and said that in e-publishing it's common for authors to work as editors, and that editing is done more quickly, and that continuity isn't as important as I've suggested (I'm paraphrasing here, having not read back: please forgive me if I've got that wrong; I don't intend to rewrite this thread or to claim things are not as they were, but I'm tired and short of time), I've been troubled.

It feels wrong to me to nod my head and say, "Ah--ok then! That explains it!" and to accept that it's fine for books to not be edited as deeply as I'm used to, or for the relationship between author and editor to be more casual than I've experienced. It feels dangerous to me. Like we're saying that authors who are published through e-presses don't deserve to be published well, and readers who read e-books don't deserve to get full value for their money.

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I'm sure it's all my fault and I'm just misreading or making rather unwise leaps, but when someone says that the accepted manner of business in e-publishing 'feels dangerous', it seems like that person is expressing a concern about the entire field of e-publishing.


In terms of the editing process that I'm used to from e-publishers, I've given it an approximation below. (I will say that if it would take you several days to come up with your version, I begin to understand the extended timelines in print publishing!) Anyway, rough idea, based on the timelines of my most recent book (one which was submitted to a publisher with whom I have a relationship, so things probably happened a bit faster at the offer/acceptance stage):

Late August: MS submitted. Accepted less than a week later, contract sent with acceptance, reviewed, and sent back (signed) later the same day. It was their standard contract.

Early October: first contact with editor #1. She's read the MS and has made global notes and specific notes for me to work through. We discuss these ideas, share suggestions, etc.

Late October: I submit a revised MS with changes as suggested. These were mid-intensity changes, I'd say. A few scenes added, some characterization smoothed out, etc.

Late October: She returns the MS with specific notes made (areas that she still thinks need more/less/something different, etc.)

Early November: That MS returned. They call that the end of the content editing phase.

Mid-November: MS back to me with more comments. Getting more detailed now. I'm also asked for blurb and cover information.

Mid-November: MS back to them with changes/comments made.

Late November: MS back to me. Details now, but we hash them through and I return the MS. I've submitted my blurb and cover information and am contacted by the head of the art department with a request to clarify a few points.

Early December: I'm notified that the MS has gone to copy editing. I review changes/suggestions from editor #2 and return.

Late December: I'm sent several mock-ups of potential cover art and asked for feedback, which I send and which is acted upon.

Early January: Draft blurb sent to me for review, we go back and forth a few times until it works for everyone. Cover art finalized.

Yesterday: Galley proofs sent to me. I have until Friday to return them. Book is due out late February or early March, I believe.

Things used to move faster with this publisher but as their release schedule has filled up they've extended timelines a little. When I started with them, there wouldn't have been that August-October gap between acceptance and first edits - it would have been a few weeks, probably.

This is all from the author's end, obviously, but in terms of timelines, maybe it helps?

Captcha said:

(I will say that if it would take you several days to come up with your version, I begin to understand the extended timelines in print publishing!)

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That's a pretty personal comment, and rather a low blow. How does Old Hack's allocation of the private time she spends on Absolute Write relate to the timelines of the publishing industry?

Address the argument, not the person, please. It's a part of RYFW.

Captcha said:

I don't think most books, from print or e-publishers, actually receive that much work time from the publishers. A significant amount of the schedule, I believe, is taken up with transitioning between departments, etc.

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I'm not sure where you get this impression, but the largest chunk of a trade press editor's time is taken with editing because they have to ensure a quality product. They do this because they've invested heavily in that book. They paid the author an advance, put the title in their catalog, and have their sales teams pitching the title for pre-sales.

Departments coordinate with each other on a constant basis, so there isn't a transitional period.

4/5/2012: Full requested
5/25/2012: Contract offered
6/3/2012: Contract signed....
10/20/2012: First list of editor comments/suggestions received
10/29/2012: I responded to first round of comments (delay caused by my attendance at a conference)
11/3/2012: Submitted first revision
11/8/2012: Provided marketing and cover information
12/4/2012: Received 2nd round of edits
12/9/2012: Returned 2nd revision
12/9/2012: Began discussions on cover art, blurb, and excerpt
12/10/2012: Received 3rd round of edits
12/10/2012: First cover mock up
12/10/2012: 3rd round edits returned
12/11/2012: Discussion of cover art
12/12/2012: Cover art and blurb finalized
1/3/2013: Galleys received, errors forwarded to editor, who forwarded to Head Line Editor. HLE forwarded to galley formatter.
1/4/2013: Corrected galleys received. Further errors noted and corrected by formatter.
1/5/2013: Launch (one day past proposed January 4 launch).

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Wait a minute. You got your final galleys approved the day before your release? This jives with the updates I've seen from other Musa authors, but maybe this has been addressed as Capcha's editing schedule seems to be much less rushed.

safeandsilent said:

Wait a minute. You got your final galleys approved the day before your release? This jives with the updates I've seen from other Musa authors, but maybe this has been addressed as Capcha's editing schedule seems to be much less rushed.

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I should clarify that I have no experience with Musa - my timeline was with a different e-publisher; I was attempting to address the apparently nonexistent opinion that proper editing can't be done on a e-publisher's schedule. in general. I have no first-hand knowledge about Musa in particular.

Oh! Okay. Thank you.

Captcha said:

I think I got that impression mostly from you, when you said:

[quoted stuff]

I'm sure it's all my fault and I'm just misreading or making rather unwise leaps, but when someone says that the accepted manner of business in e-publishing 'feels dangerous', it seems like that person is expressing a concern about the entire field of e-publishing.

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I think you did misread what I wrote, but that might well be my fault for not being clear enough. I promise I wasn't dismissing any publishers or writers, or any particular branch of the publishing business: I was just expressing my concerns, in the hope of explaining what can go wrong and how anxious I feel for writers when I hear about what looks to me like corners are being cut.

Publishers can stand up for themselves--or, indeed, fail all on their own. If people want to go into publishing then they've got to accept that doing so comes with associated risks, just as any business will. Writers, however, often don't understand the implications they're confronted with and sometimes I worry for them, and try to explain what the problems and benefits might be.

That's what I was trying to do in this thread. My apologies if you read my comments to mean that your publisher, or Musa, were skimping or incompetent: I don't know enough about Musa or your publisher to be able to say whether this is the case or not. I do, however, know some stuff about how to publish quality books in an effective way, and I hope if you re-read my comments and this time assume I'm talking generally that you might be able to see that this time round.

In terms of the editing process that I'm used to from e-publishers, I've given it an approximation below.

<snipped>

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Thanks for that, Captcha.

I note that all you've included is the points at which you were involved in the publication process of your book. You've not considered how many people at your publisher were actively working on your book, who was in charge of chasing up what, who had to commission the various things required, who had to check that they were all done appropriately and that budgets were being adhered to and so on. That's the sort of stuff I thought you meant you wanted to see in a timeline, so perhaps you can see why it would be much more complicated and time-consuming for me to write such a thing. It wouldn't be a list: it would be a spreadsheet, and would require extensive checking and revision to get it right.

Chris P said:

I saved all my emails to and from Musa, and I corresponded with five people from initial submission to launch. The first was the person who requested the full and who offered the contract. There was brief correspondence with the signer of the contract (the second person), one or two emails with a third person regarding an address change when I moved to Uganda, and the fourth person was the editor I worked with on three rounds of edits.

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It's never quite as good if the person who edits your book isn't the person who signed it: they're unlikely to be as invested in the title, and so won't be so enthusiastic about it. But it happens, I know, even though I wish it didn't.

I talked directly with the cover designer (the fifth person) about cover art, blurb, and excerpt.

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I think I've misunderstood, but here it seems to me that your cover designer wrote the blurb and defined the excerpt (which I assume is the sample text which is downloadable on Amazon, etc). Surely that's an editor's job, in conjunction with the author and sales and marketing teams?

I do hope I've misunderstood that bit!

Important dates:

3/26/2012: Submitted query
4/5/2012: Full requested
5/25/2012: Contract offered
6/3/2012: Contract signed after clarification of terms
[The following delay was at my request. The contract offer was made THE DAY I arrived for Peace Corps training in Uganda, and between the training and bouncing around Uganda with who-knows what internet access for the next three months I didn't feel I had the time to devote to it. Musa was fine with this since a January 4, 2013 launch was projected]
10/7/2012: First communication with the editor

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This is where I stop and boggle.

Editing on your book didn't get started until there was less than three months to go to publication date.

Have I got that wrong?

I understand that the delay was unfortunate and perhaps unavoidable because of your work, but still: three months to move a book from unedited to published? That's a heck of a race and if this is a full-length novel we're talking about, then that's a very risky thing for the publisher or the writer to agree to.

12/9/2012: Began discussions on cover art, blurb, and excerpt
12/10/2012: Received 3rd round of edits
12/10/2012: First cover mock up
12/10/2012: 3rd round edits returned
12/11/2012: Discussion of cover art
12/12/2012: Cover art and blurb finalized

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The day after discussions about cover art began, there was a mock-up of the cover available. The next day there was a discussion of that mock-up; and the day after, the cover art was finalised. That's very speedy.

I hope Musa pays its artists well for such fast work.

1/3/2013: Galleys received, errors forwarded to editor, who forwarded to Head Line Editor. HLE forwarded to galley formatter.
1/4/2013: Corrected galleys received. Further errors noted and corrected by formatter.
1/5/2013: Launch (one day past proposed January 4 launch).

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Did you get to see those galleys? I'm not sure if you did from this brief description but you should have.

What I note is that there was very little time to check for errors at this stage, and that there were several people involved, with notification of errors being forwarded up along the chain. There doesn't seem to have been the time for anyone to read the book through one last time, or for anyone to check that the errors they'd spotted had actually been remedied appropriately.

With publication so close--and already slipping, albeit by just one day--I would worry that those galleys weren't checked as thoroughly as they could have been. I'd be very uncomfortable with that. But I am, as I'm sure you realise, pedantic and prone to worry and perhaps everyone did an amazing job and your book is in great shape. I certainly hope so.

safeandsilent said:

Wait a minute. You got your final galleys approved the day before your release? This jives with the updates I've seen from other Musa authors, but maybe this has been addressed as Capcha's editing schedule seems to be much less rushed.

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Captcha said:

I should clarify that I have no experience with Musa - my timeline was with a different e-publisher; I was attempting to address the apparently nonexistent opinion that proper editing can't be done on a e-publisher's schedule. in general. I have no first-hand knowledge about Musa in particular.

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Captcha, if you'd go back a page you'd see that the publishing schedule safeandsilent was referring to was the one ChrisP posted, which I've referred to above.

She was referring to this bit

, but maybe this has been addressed as Capcha's editing schedule seems to be much less rushed.

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Captcha said:

My main point is that Musa is an e-first publisher. If they are dismissed simply for following an e-first pattern of publication, then every other e-first publisher is also being dismissed. Since there are some authors who are making a good living and being creatively fulfilled by their work with e-publishers, I don't think it's a good idea to steer authors away from the entire field.

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They aren't being "dismissed"; people are pointing out that there are some issues.

I do wish people would stop thinking of e-first publishing, e-only publishing or even publishing as something new and different.

It isn't new, and it's not all that different.

Nor do I see any attempt by anyone to steer authors away from "the entire field."

I figured I'd throw my $0.02 in. I do have contracts with Musa...and three other e-pubs. I'm not going to try to compare them here. They each have their own systems, but in every single one, my work has been scheduled for no later than nine months out from the contract date. With all, once edits start, they go fast. Round after round in a tight period. It can be exhausting, especially if you're a very productive writer.

Specific to Musa, however, the last three works they acquired from me have been assigned to the same content editor. They do attempt to keep you matched if you're simpatico. I like my editor. She gets "funk."

Another point, which I'm sure was brought up somewhere in this 51-page thread, is that you look at the accelerated timetable for releases for a digital pub and think "Wow, that's really fast!"

Compared to a traditional pub, probably. BUT, not every single story coming out is going to be a novel (or even novella-length work). There's obviously a different editorial time commitment to a 15,000-word novelette than there is to a epic novel that's going to need three or more passes just for content and structure. One can probably edit a short story or novelette in a day if it's pretty clean to start with. And if the writer does this full-time (like I do), chances are good they're going to send those revisions back in a week.

Then the next round.

And the next one.

That's typical of all the e-pubs I work with (disclaimer: I write romance which just skews shorter than other genre fiction to start with.). In a release week, the publisher may offer a $0.99 short story, a novelette, a couple of novellas, and one full-length novel--all with a different content editor. There'll be a head editor or editorial director overseeing the process to make sure traffic is flowing as it should on all the scheduled pieces.

For a point of reference: the work Musa has acquired from me include a 7,000-word short, a 12,000-word novelette, a 35,000-word novella, and an 80,000-word novel. Obviously, the short went through the editorial process the fastest.

I do think people forget the wordcount range e-pubs can acquire. Not everything they take will have a future life in paperback. They can afford to promote diversity as far as length goes.

As far as writers doubling as editors in the same house? Yeah. That happens. A lot. Some houses forbid it. Others don't. It's up to the director's discretion. I only write, so I can't say how that works out for those editors in terms of time management.

This is all getting very, very far afield from Musa.

I'm considering moving the last several pages' worth of comments over to the e-publishing boards.

I'll fill in what details I can. My responses in italics. oh, crap, everything in a quote is in italics. How about blue then?

Old Hack said:

It's never quite as good if the person who edits your book isn't the person who signed it: they're unlikely to be as invested in the title, and so won't be so enthusiastic about it. But it happens, I know, even though I wish it didn't.

It happened here.

I think I've misunderstood, but here it seems to me that your cover designer wrote the blurb and defined the excerpt (which I assume is the sample text which is downloadable on Amazon, etc). Surely that's an editor's job, in conjunction with the author and sales and marketing teams?

I do hope I've misunderstood that bit!

Breathe deeply. You have misunderstood because I wasn't clear. Musa uses a "cover and marketing worksheet" which I provided to them on 11/8/2012. This worksheet included my suggestions for a blurb, logline, cover images, excerpt, and other stuff. This worksheet was coordinated with me and the editor. I was contacted by the cover designer on 12/9/2012, and I saw the first cover mock up the next day. The person on the first cover was way too young to be one of the main characters, and the designer used a different picture when I pointed this out.

This is where I stop and boggle.

Editing on your book didn't get started until there was less than three months to go to publication date.

Have I got that wrong?

No, you are correct. My first contact with the editor was on October 7.

I understand that the delay was unfortunate and perhaps unavoidable because of your work, but still: three months to move a book from unedited to published? That's a heck of a race and if this is a full-length novel we're talking about, then that's a very risky thing for the publisher or the writer to agree to.

It is 72,000 words in final version.

The day after discussions about cover art began, there was a mock-up of the cover available. The next day there was a discussion of that mock-up; and the day after, the cover art was finalised. That's very speedy.

Not as speedy as that; see my above comment. The discussions began about a month earlier, although the time from first cover to second cover was in one day.

I hope Musa pays its artists well for such fast work.



Did you get to see those galleys? I'm not sure if you did from this brief description but you should have.

Yes, I saw them. Musa uses an online document manager (called Delphi) that sends me updates to the project. The system sent me notification that the line edited manuscript was uploaded on December 29, and the galleys were uploaded on January 3. As mentioned in previous posts, there were a number of errors we corrected over the next couple days and the final galleys were approved on January 5 (in the US, it was already the 6th here).

What I note is that there was very little time to check for errors at this stage, and that there were several people involved, with notification of errors being forwarded up along the chain. There doesn't seem to have been the time for anyone to read the book through one last time, or for anyone to check that the errors they'd spotted had actually been remedied appropriately.

The bold text was my comment to Musa, which I reiterated here (I have said nothing here that I haven't already said to Musa directly, btw) a couple pages back. Specifically I suggested a fresh set of eyes give the book a final pass before the galleys are released to the author. But the book doesn't go out until I approve the galleys on the Delphi site, and some of the errors were not obvious. I only knew to look for some of them due to my past work as an editor/proofreader on scientific articles.

With publication so close--and already slipping, albeit by just one day--I would worry that those galleys weren't checked as thoroughly as they could have been. I'd be very uncomfortable with that. But I am, as I'm sure you realise, pedantic and prone to worry and perhaps everyone did an amazing job and your book is in great shape. I certainly hope so.

As mentioned, the errors in the galleys are the only way I've been disappointed so far. Feel free to follow the link in my sig, buy a copy, and see for yourself

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James D. Macdonald said:

Generally speaking, at print publishers, each book is individually designed as far as font, type size, margins, etc. etc.

Such things as how quote marks are used, or if they're used, are decided by the author, not the publisher (e.g. Cold Mountain by Charles Frazier; The Road by Cormac McCarthy).

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And so I learn a new thing today. (YAY! for learning) Thank you for clarifying, Uncle Jim. I appreciate it.

safeandsilent said:

Catadmin ... Perhaps you could help clear up some of my other concerns.

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I can try. Please understand that all my answers come from the lens of my own experience.

safeandsilent said:

It's laudable that Musa interns are used for "real" work, and I've noted Mscelina's previous comments on how educational the Musa internship is. Can I ask how much real work?

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I might be misunderstanding your question, but ... We don't give "make work" or "busy work". Everything the interns do is real work. They share the day-to-day Musa workload.

safeandsilent said:

Of Musa's staff, what percentage are unpaid interns who will be moving on in six months?

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Unfortunately, I'm not the person who can answer this question. I don't keep track of the total number of Musa interns, and I'm not the person who decides whether or not to hire them full time. Sorry.

safeandsilent said:

And what type of real work is being passed along to unpaid interns?

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I cannot answer for other imprints, but for Penumbra / Urania, it breaks down like this:

Depending on the intern's goals, she may learn to line edit, content edit, book design, magazine layout, book cover design, write articles, write book reviews & blogs, learn marketing skills, network with other industry professionals, etc.

Penumbra eMag offers 2 intern-run issues per year, meaning that one of the interns gets to be Guest Editor In Chief while other interns do the layout, design, article writing, etc. for the magazine. Everything is overseen by the EIC to make sure the magazine is up to Musa standards. During the performance of these duties, interns are given regular feedback so they can learn and improve their skills.

safeandsilent said:

What positions are considered to be paid positions in the company, not internships? Of those positions, can you comment on the turnover rate? In your department, how much of the staff started there when Musa opened? How many have been there for over a year? Six months? How many were moved into your department from other departments?

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I believe Celina already answered the question of paid staff somewhere else in this thread. I simply don't have any of the relevant information to give a more specific answer. I know I get paid (and on time!) each month for both my books and my Musa work.

As far as turnover goes... Yes, there has been some turnover, but I don't have the numbers, nor would it be my place to share them without the permission of Directors. My current duties focus my attention to very specific places within and outside of the company.

safeandsilent said:

What is a publication coordinator? What level staff does that make you within the company? What experience did you need to get that job?

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I'm an odd duck within the publishing world. I don't really have a "level" at Musa, nor do I have an official pidgeon-hole that would be equivalent to any position I know of in other publishing companies.

My job consists of being Celina's assistant, of handling author-editor relationships (in so far as making sure communication is still happening), coordinating special events (like the What Honor Requires special call), finding new markets for Urania and Penumbra eMag, build the Urania and Penumbra eMag brands so they can be considered official SFWA qualifying market (which includes increasing subscription numbers, finding markets willing to advertise in the magazine, building the magazine's reputation in the specfic world), increasing the size of Urania's novel and novella library (i.e., finding books suitable to Urania's theme and vision that Musa would be proud to publish), and things like that.

As far as experience level goes? I have previous writing and publishing experience with other independent publishers (since 2004). I've worked with several editors (as an author). I'm a member of three professional writing organizations with a focus on speculative fiction. I've written for licensed properties (Shadowrun & Transformers). I have 20+ years of customer service and retail / salesperson experience from RL jobs. And I did a Musa internship as a line editor trainee, a marketing trainee, and a fiction magazine trainee / guest editor in chief.

I never actually asked Celina why she offered me the job. I suspect, though, that the reasons include the fact that I worked my butt off during the internship, didn't play any diva "treat me special" cards, and proved that I could solve problems without being micromanged. I do know that she and I get along fairly well, which is crucial in any employer-employee relationship.

It's entirely possible, however, that this all happened because I emailed her mind control chocolates after World Fantasy. Or maybe it was the whipped cream incident ... Oh, sorry. I'm not supposed to talk about that one. @=)

Does this help answer your questions?

It does, thank you

Catadmin said:

I have 20+ years of customer service and retail / salesperson experience from RL jobs.

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I just realized what a poor choice of phrasing on my part this sentence is.

When I said "RL jobs" what I meant was non-virtual / offline day jobs. I did not mean to indicate that working for an epublisher is not a real life job, because it is. And it's very hard work at that. I apologize to anyone who works a digital job (of any variety) that I may have offended with that statement.

Do Musa interns receive pay or college credit, or is this a purely volunteer effort?

Medievalist said:

Do Musa interns receive pay or college credit, or is this a purely volunteer effort?

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Internships are unpaid, but do offer those looking to get their feet wet a chance to learn. The hope is that at the end of the 6 month internship that a person will have some real world training and a reference they can use later on. For some Authors it is the chance to learn more about the publishing business.

For more information you can check out http://musapublishing.blogspot.com/p/musa-internship-program.html

Happy Writing

Dominique Eastwick said:

Internships are unpaid. But do offer those looking to get their feet wet a chance to learn. The hope is that at the end of the 6 month internship that a person will have some real world training and a reference they can use later on. For some Authors it is the chance to learn more about the publishing business.

For more information you can check out http://musapublishing.blogspot.com/p/musa-internship-program.html

Happy Writing

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That isn't an internship. That's exploitation. Real internships either earn college credit—which indicates a level of professionalism and expertise on the part of the publisher offering the internship—or they're paid.

In some cases—for instance, an internship I supervised with a university press—interns receive college credit, including an evaluation, and at the end also an honorarium. Students also attended several publishing conferences, where they were able to meet other professionals and apply for jobs.

I'm dismayed in the extreme.

Is that an industry-standard thing? Six-month full-time unpaid job?

Dominique Eastwick said:

Internships are unpaid, but do offer those looking to get their feet wet a chance to learn. The hope is that at the end of the 6 month internship that a person will have some real world training and a reference they can use later on. For some Authors it is the chance to learn more about the publishing business.

For more information you can check out http://musapublishing.blogspot.com/p/musa-internship-program.html

Happy Writing

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If interns are doing "real work", to borrow a phrase, and editing two issues of Penumbra per year pretty much alone, they're producing real income for Musa at little cost to Musa.

And Musa's interns do this work for no financial reward for six months? Wow.

To put that into perspective, a friend's daughter had an internship at a major publisher in London: it lasted six weeks and she was paid £40 per week plus her travelling expenses and a small allowance for lunch; and my neice had a three week internship at a literary agency for which she was paid enough to cover her expenses and buy herself a few bits and pieces.

Musa might be wise to rethink its policy on running unpaid internships, particularly for such a long period of time; and especially when they make money directly from the interns' efforts (I'm thinking of Penumbra here).

It's really nice that some people can afford to work for half a year without financial reward, but people who aren't in such a fortunate financial position are excluded from accepting unpaid internships: so running such internships is more and more frequently seen as elitism, and a form of discrimination against the poor.

There was a big kerfuffle over unpaid internships in publishing a year or two back, and as a result many are now paid and the ones which are unpaid often pay expenses and provide other solid, quantifiable benefits, in an attempt to avoid claims that they're exploitative.

Even if Musa isn't troubled by the suggestion that they're being elitist in this case, they might want to consider their financial position here.

There was a ruling a couple of years ago where an unpaid intern sued an NY publisher for minimum wage for the period she'd worked for them, and won. She was awarded full pay for the entire period of her internship and, I think, other benefits, and when she won her case, other interns made claims which publishers paid out on, rather than go to court. This set a precident and as a result, many publishers and literary agencies in both London and NY stopped using interns entirely, while others introduced minimum wage.

Will Musa be able to survive if one of its interns makes a claim against it and cites these other cases? It's a serious issue which really should be looked at.

Amadan said:

Is that an industry-standard thing? Six-month full-time unpaid job?

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No, it most certainly isn't.

Medievalist said:

That isn't an internship. That's exploitation. Real internships either earn college credit—which indicates a level of professionalism and expertise on the part of the publisher offering the internship—or they're paid.

In some cases—for instance, an internship I supervised with a university press—interns receive college credit, including an evaluation, and at the end also an honorarium. Students also attended several publishing conferences, where they were able to meet other professionals and apply for jobs.

I'm dismayed in the extreme.

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Agreed.

If Musa really thinks this is acceptable, Musa either hasn't really thought this through, or thinks it's appropriate to make money out of unpaid workers.

Amadan said:

Is that an industry-standard thing? Six-month full-time unpaid job?

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No. It's not. It's typically 20 hours a week, max, for a semester or a quarter. So that would be 10 or 15 weeks.

You'll notice they typically are tied to college terms, as in fall, winter, spring and summer.

They also involve the student in the office in direct contact with authors, editors, designers, etc. at least part of the time.

Here are some typical publishing internships:

Tor-Forge MacMillan

Anderson Literary Agency Internship

Bloomsbury Publishing Marketing Internship

Cambridge University Press Summer Internship This one is just a summer one, and they are expected to work fulltime for June and July.

Macmillan Fall Internship

There are lots of others.

I've just asked my Twitter feed how the people there feel about a six month unpaid internship. The link should show the direct responses. Most of the people who have responded are professional writers or publishing professionals.