New document format that might tip the scales

veinglory

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standards.png
 

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Since .PDFs can contain QuickTime moves, HTML 5, JavaScript and Flash, this really isn't new nor is it a .PDF killer.
 
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Al Stevens

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This could signal the future of technical textbooks. It would also have to properly render traditional webpages. Probably does.

The big challenge in using something like this would be the content. New author skills required for effective use of animation. And more effort required than for a typical text and static graphics/video page.

It would definitely need good authoring tools.

Next step, the holodeck.
 

movieman

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Since .PDFs can contain QuickTime moves, HTML 5, JavaScript and Flash, this really isn't new nor is it a .PDF killer.

Since those 'features' have been a huge source of malware infections via PDF files ('what? how did viewing a PDF file exploit a security hole in the Flash viewer?'), I have no desire to have an even less locked-down document format on my computers.
 

Al Stevens

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I see it more as a medium for e-readers than for Windows-based, malware targeted PCs.
 

Deleted member 42

Since those 'features' have been a huge source of malware infections via PDF files ('what? how did viewing a PDF file exploit a security hole in the Flash viewer?'), I have no desire to have an even less locked-down document format on my computers.

Not on a Mac.

That said, for my part, Flash itself verges on malware.
 

Gale Haut

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Can someone explain to me why people resist simply creating these documents in html and then, I don't know, have people view them using a browser. And that goes for ebooks as well, and ebook readers with all their stupid file types. The hypertext markup language was created for hypertext/interactive documents, was it not?
 

kuwisdelu

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Can someone explain to me why people resist simply creating these documents in html and then, I don't know, have people view them using a browser. And that goes for ebooks as well, and ebook readers with all their stupid file types. The hypertext markup language was created for hypertext/interactive documents, was it not?

Well for ebooks, most of the ebook formats out there are basically HTML and CSS, just a specific standard of them.

For PDF's... well, sometimes static is a good thing. When the formatting is important, you want a PDF, because it means all of it will be preserved, whatever the original file format was.
 

Gale Haut

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But you can design static layouts in html and people have the ability to use the zoom function on a browser. The only major con I can really think of has to do with font limitations. Or am I missing something?
 

Deleted member 42

Scrolling is not an ideal way to read large amounts of text; it's doable, but it's not great.

With a well-designed ereader, and a well-designed book, you can do amazing things.

Like link text to audio or video performances of, say, a Shakespeare play. Include glossed words, and notes. Include essays about the history, and performance practice. Allow your reader to compare the same scene in three or four different video performances. Take notes, and associate annotations a reader makes with specific passages, and allow them to be easily exported and shared . . . link to original sources, etc. etc.
 

Gale Haut

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Hmm... I see. Well, if these ebook files are just variations of html, is it possible for one to markup an ebook in epub format?

(thanks for all the patience with my stupidity, btw)
 

Al Stevens

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Hmm... I see. Well, if these ebook files are just variations of html, is it possible for one to markup an ebook in epub format?
Statically, yes. The e-reader would have to have a reading application that allowed changes to be made interactively. And have the changes survive the session.
 

Gale Haut

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Oh. I thought he meant just open it in a text editor and edit the code directly.

That is what I meant. Sorry I wasn't clear.

So do you just write the code in a text editor as if it's a web page and then how do you export it into the ebook format? I haven't found anything useful online describing how this is done. :/

Maybe if you have a tut link or something that would be easier on everyone. :)
 

kuwisdelu

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That is what I meant. Sorry I wasn't clear.

So do you just write the code in a text editor as if it's a web page and then how do you export it into the ebook format? I haven't found anything useful online describing how this is done. :/

Maybe if you have a tut link or something that would be easier on everyone. :)

You can always read the Wikipedia page, or just try opening a .epub in your favorite text editor. I don't have any experience with markup languages myself, so I've never done it.
 

Deleted member 42

That is what I meant. Sorry I wasn't clear.

So do you just write the code in a text editor as if it's a web page and then how do you export it into the ebook format? I haven't found anything useful online describing how this is done. :/

Maybe if you have a tut link or something that would be easier on everyone. :)

If you know HTML and CSS even a little bit, the easiest way I know to figure out ePub is to download a free DRMless ePub book (there are lots around; Baen has them, for instance) and then use the free Firefox plug in from here:

http://www.epubread.com/en/

The plugin (once you drag and drop an epub file on the browser so you can read it in a browser) "explodes" the compressed ePub file, so you can see the variou XML/TXT/HTML/CSS etc. files.

You'll need to do some minor spelunking, depending on your OS, to see where the ePub files are placed by the plugin.

Open the files for a particular ePub in a text editor.

And yes, it's possible with reasonable expertise to hand-code an ePub. But Stanza, Calibre, Pages, and Scrivener for Mac all do a decent job.
 

Deleted member 42

Different readers have different expectations/restrictions/abilities for ePub files, so to some extent, we're still making ePubs for a specific reader.

But that's changing very rapidly.
 

kuwisdelu

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TextWrangler opens .epubs fine. Speaking of which, just bought BBEdit. It wasn't always that cheap, was it? I'll have to explore later.
 

Gale Haut

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I know that InDesign has an extension for exporting files into ebook files, but I've never attempted that and have no idea what kind of result one should expect. I would feel more comfortable working directly with the code.
 

Deleted member 42

TextWrangler opens .epubs fine. Speaking of which, just bought BBEdit. It wasn't always that cheap, was it? I'll have to explore later.

No; it's a special. The .edu discount is nifty though.

And the App store hasn't upgraded to BBEdit 10 yet, but I am salivating.

It's the one app I use the most, more than email, more than a Web browser.
 

kuwisdelu

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I know that InDesign has an extension for exporting files into ebook files, but I've never attempted that and have no idea what kind of result one should expect. I would feel more comfortable working directly with the code.

Something Medi has suggested before that I think is a good idea is to use an export tool to generate the .epub for you first, and then go in and make the changes to the code to tune it to your liking.
 

Deleted member 42

I know that InDesign has an extension for exporting files into ebook files, but I've never attempted that and have no idea what kind of result one should expect. I would feel more comfortable working directly with the code.

InDesign on a Mac does it as a native export.

If you've got InDesign, it lets you do easy tests regarding inserting media, messing with Styles, etc. and seeing what readers support what features in ePub.

So far, none of the readers are supporting the full potential of the file format.