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Thread: 27th Dimension Publishing

  1. #1
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    27th Dimension Publishing

    Recovered from 7/7/11:

    Today, 03:56 AM
    Little Ming
    practical experience, FTW

    27th Dimension Publishing
    Saw a call for submissions on another forum. Here's the website:

    http://www.27thdimension.com/

    Any comments?
    Today, 03:59 AM
    veinglory
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    Terrible website, light on details, one author listed. I am guessing self-publisher in expansion mode.

    No wait, more than one author--but well hidden (by terrible website).
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  2. #2
    soup
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    So. I'm gonna shed a little light on these guys as there clearly isn't a ton of information on them.

    I submitted to them a little earlier today (first 3 chapters +final chapter, which I like a lot as a standard submission guideline, and a query) and I got an email back after just 3 or 4 hours.

    Now, please do keep in mind that my chapters are a lot longer than most and the total output of my partial sent to them was around 40,000 words. Yet they got back to me after 3-4 hours.... this is the email I received. Make sure to read over it carefully.:



    Mr. Garrett.

    Please be advised from the outset that your work Perish would only ever appear in ebook format--unless it sold very well. If this is alright with you, no, we are not yet accepting your work for publication.

    What I would need for you to do, in order for us to even consider it, would be to comb through your ms. and remove every dialogue tag and replace with either 'said' or 'replied.'

    Then, once you have done that, remove every adverb. These normally end in 'ly.'

    When you have done these two important tasks, hit us with something so powerful and philosophical right at the very beginning that we are hooked and can't put your work down. You have not yet done this, and this is very important, perhaps most especially if your book appears in ebook format, because potential readers will want to see the first few pages before they buy.

    In any case, congratulations on completing such a lengthy work, and whatever you decide to do, we wish you well in your writing career.

    Hoping to hear from you again,




    lolwut

    Not only do half of the sentences in this return email make little to no sense, but I was just told by an editor (yes, that is this guy's OFFICIAL title) to remove every adverb from my story. My 178,000 story. He just comes out of nowhere and assbackwards tells me to remove every adverb, like they are no longer valid forms of communication.

    Also, just for giggles, I'll have you know that my story is written in the present tense. He tells me to go and add words like "said" and "replied" (for what reason, I seriously don't even know), past tense words, into my present tense story.

    Again, lolwut



    I sent another email back essentially asking this guy to make himself clearer just to play along for a bit more. I'll update with whatever (and if ever) I get a response.

  3. #3
    Inconsequential. Also: short. TumbleHome's Avatar
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    Dalton- That is... um, confounding, to say the least. I have never heard of an editor talk anything remotely like that. At least you got some entertainment value out of it? Please do keep us updated!

  4. #4
    practical experience, FTW eternalised's Avatar
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    Well, that certainly doesn't sound good. I've never heard any editor give this kind of advice. :s I'm amazed at why an editor would even suggest such a thing.

    Their "about" page doesn't give a lot of information either about who works for them and what their experience is in the publishing industry.

  5. #5
    starting over Marian Perera's Avatar
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    What I would need for you to do, in order for us to even consider it, would be to comb through your ms. and remove every dialogue tag and replace with either 'said' or 'replied.'
    That is ridiculous. I don't like said-bookism, but some speech tags are necessary - it's difficult to tell from dialogue if someone is whispering or shouting. A blanket rule against anything other than "said" or "replied" (and why keep "replied"? Shouldn't it be obvious from the dialogue if someone is replying?) doesn't make sense.

    Then, once you have done that, remove every adverb. These normally end in 'ly.'
    "Of course I will," the author replied sarcastically. "Because no adverb could possibly contribute anything to a story."
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  6. #6
    Shakespearean Fool DreamWeaver's Avatar
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    The dialog tag and adverb advice are given quite often in writing clinics, but not generally quite so globally. Most writing advice *does* suggest you use "said" (or in your case, "says") for most of your dialog tags, and most writing advice advises getting rid of most -ly adverbs. This sounds like someone who has heard those strictures and has taken them as hard-and-fast rules rather than guidelines. That isn't a good sign that they have a lot of publishing experience.

    I don't think it has anything to do with tense--they probably send out this requirement to everyone who submits to them. It's possible they only read the first few paragraphs of your submission before hitting the "send form reply" button.
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    I would hazard these folks lack much editing experience because they're basically telling authors to write by the numbers (as opposed to paint by the numbers). Writers break the "rules" all the time, and they do it quite effectively. Sometimes a descriptive dialog tag works. It boils down to balance, and how the words flow on the page.

    The email from the editor makes me wonder if English it their first language.

  8. #8
    Special Snowflake? No. Hailstone RedRajah's Avatar
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    Technically, "reply" ends in "ly" too...

  9. #9
    Ships full of vampires are hell. AW Moderator amergina's Avatar
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    While I have no intention of submitting to them (why would I chance a press I've never heard of?) I read their submission guidelines. It seems they only want novels under 100,000 words.

    (Dalton), was this in the submission guidelines when you submitted your 178,000-word novel?

    Their rely was snarky and full of bad advice when carried to an absolute, certainly. It doesn't come off as professional.

    But 178K is not very close to 100K. So I'm not sure why you bothered submitting in the first place...
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  10. #10
    Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. kaitie's Avatar
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    Honestly, my take on reading it wasn't that you should 100% follow the rules, but that the person reading it felt that your book probably had an excessive number of odd dialogue tags and adverbs, which is the mark of a beginning writer and something that we often advise people to watch out for when they start writing because it's such a common problem.

    My read on it isn't that he's trying to say "Follow these rules or else," but that he felt that your work wasn't ready and was (in somewhat sarcastic fashion) trying to give you tips on what it would take to bring it up to a more professional level.

    It's not the nicest reply in the world, but I do have to admit that I'd take a good hard look at the writing and see if he might not have a point.


  11. #11
    Writer is as Writer does Terie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaitie View Post
    Honestly, my take on reading it wasn't that you should 100% follow the rules, but that the person reading it felt that your book probably had an excessive number of odd dialogue tags and adverbs, which is the mark of a beginning writer and something that we often advise people to watch out for when they start writing because it's such a common problem.

    My read on it isn't that he's trying to say "Follow these rules or else," but that he felt that your work wasn't ready and was (in somewhat sarcastic fashion) trying to give you tips on what it would take to bring it up to a more professional level.
    I disagree, Kaitie. The letter is very explicit and didactic in tone.

    What I would need for you to do, in order for us to even consider it, would be to comb through your ms. and remove every dialogue tag and replace with either 'said' or 'replied.'

    Then, once you have done that, remove every adverb. These normally end in 'ly.'
    (bolding mine)

    This isn't general advice. It has the tone, to me, of being a form letter, not helpful advice.

    I would also point out that acquisitions editors don't discuss this level of detail in the initial response to a query. Editing of dailogue tags and adverbs is something that occurs well into the editing process after a book is contracted. If the house was really interested in the book, any pre-contract discussions would be about things like the story arc, character development, and so on, not minor details like dialogue tags and adverbs.

    To me, this sounds like an editor who doesn't actually know anything about editing or the book acquisitions process.

    And, well, I can't help but notice the use of 'alright', which no professional editor would use in formal business correspondence.
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  12. #12
    Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. kaitie's Avatar
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    Alright, I might be wrong. It was just the way it sounded to me when I read it. Which I suppose is why we should be so careful with type--there's no way to really determine intention of tone so word choice matters.


  13. #13
    soup
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    Well, I got another email back from him today. Here's how he replied. His name is Skadi meic Beorh btw, so this combined with the fact that he uses very broken English leads me to believe that he is not a native speaker and this is a secondary language to him. Which is.... strange, to say the least. As he is acting as chief editor.

    Anyway:

    "Mr. Garrett.

    Perhaps you don't fully understand how editor's view mss. What I have asked you to do is standard. We thank you for your submission. Good luck placing your work elsewhere.
    "



    I'm thinking of sending him an email back saying "I have edited the two prior emails you have sent me with proper grammar, comma fixes, and added a shit ton of adverbs to make it sound more sexy. Please take this fixes into consideration to help better yourself as an editor. Your job."

    But this would be counterproductive, so I suppose I won't.



    Apparently the 27th Dimension is a mirror universe where editors turn fully edited works into first drafts?

  14. #14
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    "how editor's view mss"?

    Bullet dodged
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  15. #15
    Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. kaitie's Avatar
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    No kidding.


  16. #16
    Fighting off ninja plot bunnies saphirablue84's Avatar
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    Um...wow! I'm friends with a couple of editors and never have they given me this type of advice. Indeed, bullet dodged.

  17. #17
    but appreciated anyway... Unimportant's Avatar
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    I can see an editor sending a provisional acceptance, saying that they would contract the work but that part of the necessary editing process would include the author getting rid of book saidisms and adverbs, which the editor thought were used to excess.

    I can see an editor sending a revise-and-resubmit request, saying that the book was good but the beginning didn't have enough of a powerful, philosophic impact to grab his attention.

    I can see an editor sending a rejection, saying that 170K words was just too long.

    But the response that the OP got was, IMO, rather odd. It seems to be a revise-and-resubmit request, but the feedback seemed to be a mixture of unclear handwaving and unreasonable demands. Personally, I'd just thank the editor for his time and move on. There are heaps of other markets out there.

  18. #18
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    This is a guy who thinks "alright" is a word. Anything that isn't "yes" is "no."

    Submit your work to the next market on your list.
    Last edited by James D. Macdonald; 03-05-2012 at 05:28 AM.

  19. #19
    Write faster! FASTER! G. Applejack's Avatar
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    I was morbidly curious enough to search out a book by Skadi meic Beorh, and I came up with The Highwayman's Tale.

    A quick skim shows something interesting on page 3. Bolding is mine.

    "So I hear," I whispered, hoping she hadn't heard me.

    So there you are. As the others have said, I would suggest querying elsewhere.

  20. #20
    Wilde about Oscar aliceshortcake's Avatar
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    I blame The Who's 1965 hit 'The Kids are Alright'. Alright seems to be well on its way to becoming accepted in British English.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by veinglory View Post
    "how editor's view mss"?

    Bullet dodged
    This combined with the "alright" leads me to believe this guy should NOT be an editor. Editors are people and they can make mistakes, but those are just painful to my eyes.

  22. #22
    Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. kaitie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceshortcake View Post
    I blame The Who's 1965 hit 'The Kids are Alright'. Alright seems to be well on its way to becoming accepted in British English.
    My dictionary accepts it as a word and actually seeing it as two drives me crazy (it's not pronounced as two most of the time when I say it). I wouldn't use it for a formal paper, but for novel writing (or other informal situations) I actually prefer it. I wonder if this is one of those things that's somewhat generational. I've often seen "alright" to the point that it distracts me when I see "all right" in writing.

    I might be odd.


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    Quote Originally Posted by (Dalton) View Post
    I'm thinking of sending him an email back saying "I have edited the two prior emails you have sent me with proper grammar, comma fixes, and added a shit ton of adverbs to make it sound more sexy. Please take this fixes into consideration to help better yourself as an editor. Your job."
    NO. You do not write the editor back with the intent of sticking a fork in his eye. You act like a professional and move on.

  24. #24
    soup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unimportant View Post
    I can see an editor sending a provisional acceptance, saying that they would contract the work but that part of the necessary editing process would include the author getting rid of book saidisms and adverbs, which the editor thought were used to excess.

    I can see an editor sending a revise-and-resubmit request, saying that the book was good but the beginning didn't have enough of a powerful, philosophic impact to grab his attention.

    I can see an editor sending a rejection, saying that 170K words was just too long.

    But the response that the OP got was, IMO, rather odd. It seems to be a revise-and-resubmit request, but the feedback seemed to be a mixture of unclear handwaving and unreasonable demands. Personally, I'd just thank the editor for his time and move on. There are heaps of other markets out there.

    This is the conclusion I have come to.



    Quote Originally Posted by priceless1 View Post
    NO. You do not write the editor back with the intent of sticking a fork in his eye. You act like a professional and move on.
    Hence the reason why I didn't. Just thought it'd be funny to fantasize. That said, if I ever did meet this man in real life, I would probably find it hard not to put a fork in his eye.

  25. #25
    Wilde about Oscar aliceshortcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaitie View Post
    My dictionary accepts it as a word and actually seeing it as two drives me crazy (it's not pronounced as two most of the time when I say it). I wouldn't use it for a formal paper, but for novel writing (or other informal situations) I actually prefer it. I wonder if this is one of those things that's somewhat generational. I've often seen "alright" to the point that it distracts me when I see "all right" in writing.

    I might be odd.
    You're not odd. I'm so accustomed to seeing alright it seem more natural than all right.

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