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Why I Won't Beta Read Your Novel

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cacoethes scribendi

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I’m completely new to this, so I really appreciate your post. I will shortly be looking for criticism of my novel and I will try to avoid leaving those who are kind enough to help me, feeling like they wasted their time.

To date, I have carried out only one critique of a short story on another forum. It took me several hours. I did it to start building my own beta-reading muscles, in the hope that the author would engage, even if she didn’t agree with my comments. Incidentally, I corrected some repeating foreign language errors, which are not a matter of opinion. In the end, I didn’t even receive a “thank you” message.

It’s utterly demoralising. I would have thought that those of us who are sensitive enough of our surroundings to feel inclined to write about them, would be aware of the kindness of others :)
 

tamara

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Total tangent:

"I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman 'Where's the self-help section?' She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose."
- George Carlin


Cacoethes, I now want to get a job at a bookstore so I can use this line.
 

Jess Haines

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I tend to look for original/interesting titles in SYW. It turns out to be a reasonable filter i.e. the more interesting titles tend to relate to pieces that do hold my attention, though it is not a perfect match of course. I now simply use titles as a first filter which really sifts it down to a couple of maybes. "Enjoy" would put me less off than a title that doesn't raise my interest...

I do this, too. I've found one lovely beta/crit partner who has been with me for quite a while by trolling through SYW. There are other people who I felt had talent and I have made an effort to "pay it forward" by critting their work or extending offers to beta.

My day job is for dealing with writing that doesn't interest me. If I am going to be spending an hour or more of my time considering your work and looking for ways to make it better, I want to be reading something that I already know will hold my attention. It may not be perfect, but if I think I might be able to assist and help you make it shine, I will do my best to help you get it in salable condition.

Already had plenty of experience with those who were not ready for the beta stage who either did not thank me, or they did but completely ignored my advice. I tend to be far more careful about which projects I offer to help on now.
 

Ton Lew Lepsnaci

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I worked with a great beta partner as well after trailing SYW and enjoyed the experience. I prefer to work on a word count crit-swap basis at this stage. I'm well used to taking crits and relish good ones. Good crits in any job make you grow. So bring them on :)
 
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Friendly Frog

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It’s utterly demoralising. I would have thought that those of us who are sensitive enough of our surroundings to feel inclined to write about them, would be aware of the kindness of others :)
I can understand how that might feel. I've been practising my own feeble beta-reading muscles here on the SYW-forum and while not everybody replies to the post (and sometimes there's really no need for it), I almost always get a nice 'thank you' message with a rep attached. It usually makes my day. :)
 

Maryn

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As it should. You gave of yourself and your time, and that merits gratitude even if the writer doesn't agree with anything you said.

So good for you! I wish my experiences had been so positive.

Maryn, gunshy
 

Ken

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... great thread. I am angered too when someone I critique doesn't treat me with due respect and thank me afterwards. My time is valuable. A lot more so than theirs. Who the heck do they think they are asking me to look over their stinking stuff and not saying thanks?
 

Karen Junker

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My time is valuable. A lot more so than theirs. Who the heck do they think they are asking me to look over their stinking stuff and not saying thanks?

Good point. I base my decisions on whether to read any given book on my projected life expectancy. I'm nearly 60 and I will not live long enough to read the published books on my TBR list. When I give up some of that time to read a manuscript (or even a first chapter) for someone, I feel a certain amount of loss. That is mitigated by a thank you.
 
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Resasi

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Some peoples work here I enjoy reading some, I don't.

If I had more time there are people who I would ask to Beta for just for the pleasure of a good read.
 

Friendly Frog

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So good for you! I wish my experiences had been so positive.
Thanks. But considering how few critiques I have been able to give so far as compared to others, I'm sure my sample is statistically insignificant.

My experiences with the general SYW have been positive, although I would have liked to see some more responses in the Sandbox. Very often you get no feedback back at all and are left wondering whether the suggestions or feedback you gave were of any use at all to the threadstarter.
 

Maryn

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May I offer a suggestion on the Sandbox non-response? How about coming up with a very brief teaser line which is also a link to the Sandbox thread? Silly example: When frogs rain from the skies, Julian must decide whether to make them his minions or his dinner--or something else. Help me brainstorm!

I bet you'd at least get more views.

Maryn, who hasn't been as helpful as she might be
 

ScribesShade

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.
 

Fallen

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.

Seriously? I mean, you're deadly serious here?

Edit:

I mean, really serious, huh?

Double edit:

Oh boy....
 
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Bulletproof

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.
NOOOOOOOO! Poor Maryn! How will she ever recover????
 

CassandraW

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.


ScribesShade...

This is not exactly the way to make friends around here, especially when you're only 9 posts in. :)


(Pssst...especially since Maryn is a moderator.)
 

Maryn

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.
That's an interesting approach. I usually don't critique using a ten-foot pole. How does that method work, exactly?
I prefer using a ten-foot Masai, since they're more common. Of course, they have to master English first, but it's totally worth the delay, especially if you teach several at once.

It's perfectly all right if someone doesn't like me. Mom warned me that no matter what I did, that was going to happen. What matters is whether, at the end of the day, I like me, and mostly I do.

Maryn, not a fan of the cliche but good with the hyphenated compound adjective
 

Wicked

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Whoa. Somebody rein in the horses.

I've always liked this thread, in the truth hurts kind of way. Not only is it a reminder of basic courtesy, but it also goes into things that wouldn't occur to some newbies that have never suffered through 80,000 words of slush.

In all fairness, ScribesShade, if you lash out at a hypothetical list of possibilities that has nothing to do with you personally, what do you do when you get negative feedback on your work?
That doesn't exactly inspire confidence for the beta readers who might be interested in working with you.
 

Fallen

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In all fairness, ScribesShade, if you lash out at a hypothetical list of possibilities that has nothing to do with you personally, what do you do when you get negative feedback on your work?
That doesn't exactly inspire confidence for the beta readers who might be interested in working with you.

Well said, Wicked.
 

Amadan

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.


Wow, dude. Did it occur to you that posting just for the purpose of trashing someone you've got a beef with might alienate more than just the person you're trashing? I mean, I'm sure lots of people will be really eager to critique you now, you being so gracious and pleasant and all.

Amadan, who is always gracious and pleasant (and totally ganking Maryn's style here :p)
 

Snowstorm

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.

You're not paying attention if you believe Maryn is a negative, ungiving person. She speaks the reality. Perhaps you're not ready to hear it.
 

bearilou

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.

So...what exactly are you saying, ScribesShade? Are you taking offense that Maryn has her own set of criteria she uses to determine if she critiques or not?

It's not that uncommon for clueless new writers to try to guilt and emotionally blackmail those who have been around longer to take a look at their WiP and seems to me her list is saying 'I don't really owe you 1) to read and critique; and 2) an explanation of why I won't'.

I find that those are really the crux of why people get their panties in a twist about anything and pretty much proves they rely on guilt and emotional manipulation to get their way, getting angry at people when they don't get their way using them (i.e. they don't work).
 

LAgrunion

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Actually Maryn, after reading your original post in this thread I am 100% certain I wouldn't want you touching my novel with a 10-foot pole.

As I believe you put it in that post: "I don't like you. This can happen even if I've never interacted with you. I've observed you here at AW, and I didn't like what I saw. Bummer, huh? This is what your mom meant when she said, "What goes around, comes around."

Cheers.

That's a rather mean thing to say about Maryn.

Her original post was honest and refreshingly blunt, and not directed at anyone personally. I have found her comments to be helpful contributions to this board.

Yours, however, is directed at her personally. Totally uncalled for.

I'm about to embark on a rewrite of my MS. When I'm done, I may put up a solicitation for beta swaps here. And I would consider it a privilege to have Maryn critique my stuff if she offers.
 
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