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Thread: Saga Books

  1. #1
    practical experience, FTW Toni1953's Avatar
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    Saga Books

    Has anyone heard anything good, bad, or indifferent about Saga Books iin Canada?

    From what I understand, they are a reputable POD publisher. Bruce Goldwell's Dragon Keepers is supposed to be coming out from them in 2006.

    Has anyone heard anything about them? Their website is rather small.

  2. #2
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Well, considering Mr. Godwell's current book is with Publish America, Sage would certainly be a step upward. But only a small step, IMHO, judging from said website.
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  3. #3
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    They aren't in the last issue of The Canadian Writer's Market. Sometimes POD publishers put themselves in those books to market themselves.

    Have you checked out Lulu? Not really sure what you're after and don't have any experience in the POD world, but have heard of Lulu.

  4. #4
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni1953
    Has anyone heard anything good, bad, or indifferent about Saga Books iin Canada?
    Have you, personally, ever read any of their books? Have you seen any of their books in a bookstore?

    I wouldn't dream of submitting to a house unless I'd read and liked a half-dozen or so of their books.

  5. #5
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Sage

    I'd research them more before signing. I queried them a year and a half ago, and after just the query they accepted. While that seems complimentary, it means they didn't take the time to see if the work was up to par or not. I could have had a chopped up wreck for all they know. This tells me they're more interested in having something . . . . anything . . . . to sell rather than quality pieces. If you're going to go POD, and are okay with it, try Mundania Press or Dandelion. They, at least, have good reputations with their authors despite the POD approach.
    ** Bear in mind, only big drawback to POD is reviewers typically stay away from reading works that are POD (which means little marketing available), and bookstores aren't going to carry you're work. It still gets it out there, though, which is better than nothing.

  6. #6
    Preditors & Editors Requiescat In Pace DaveKuzminski's Avatar
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    It might look like PA's contract

    SAGA BOOKS
    Saga Books
    164 Erin Woods Drive SE,
    Calgary, T2B 2S, Alberta, Canada

    Contract of Agreement

    AGREEMENT made this of 2005

    Between: hereinafter known as the Publisher

    And: hereinafter known as the Author

    Witnesseth:

    Whereas, the Author is Proprietor of a literary work at present known as: ___, which work the Publisher agrees to produce in book form on the terms and conditions specified hereinafter;

    1. The author grants and assigns to the Publisher during a period of 2 years from the date of signing of this agreement by both parties thereto the exclusive right to publish, sell or export, or cause to be published, sold or exported, the above work in book form in English in Canada and the United States of America and the exclusive right to arrange for the publication of the above work in book form in all foreign countries and/or to export copies to these territories and countries. The Author and the Publisher agree that this agreement is renewable upon the date of its expiration during an additional and successive period of two years on the same terms and conditions as specified hereinafter, provided that both parties to this agreement shall mutually ratify such renewal in writing at least 3 months prior to the date of expiration as here above set forth.

    2. The Publisher agrees to produce the said literary work in book form, at no cost or expense to the author, in such format, type and style of paper, jacket and binding as will make the volume attractive and substantial looking. It is specifically understood and agreed, furthermore, that the said volume will contain all manuscript pages as submitted by the Author (unless otherwise designated hereinafter), and will be printed on good quality paper with the bound size to be, approximately, 5 ˝ by 8 ˝ inches, or any other size as the market demands.

    3. The Publisher agrees to cause all copies of the said literary work to be printed as the market demands, and agrees, furthermore, to cause the copies so printed to be bound, from time to time, in sufficient quantities to supply purchasers of the said literary work therewith. The Publisher shall pay to the Author the following royalties: A royalty upon the regular edition sold in Canada and elsewhere of: 20 per cent of the sales price thereof on the first 500 copies sold. 25 per cent on the next 2,000 copies sold and 30 per cent on all copies sold in excess of 10,000.

    4. Copyright shall remain the sole property of the Author.

    5. The Author agrees that all the copies of the said literary work that may be used for review and/or publicity purposes, and all that the Publisher may deliver to the Author without receiving payment in money, and all that the Publisher may deliver to the Author at a discount from the regular retail price, shall not be subject to any payment to the Author.

    6. If the work is authored or owned by more than one person, the word Author, as used herein, shall be deemed to include all collaborators, authors, or owners who are parties hereto, jointly and severally, and all sums payable to the Author shall be divided equally between or among them and the Publisher shall render separate accounts and make separate payments to each of them unless herein otherwise provided.

    7. No payment shall be made to the Author on any copies of the said literary work that the Publisher may distribute for advertising and/or sales promotion purposes, that may be destroyed by fire and/or water or otherwise damaged or destroyed, or that may be lost in transit or in any other manner such damage, loss and/or destruction not being due to any negligence on the part of the Publisher.

    8. No payment shall be made to the Author for permission gratuitously given to others to publish extracts from the said literary work to benefit the sale thereof, but all compensation received by the Publisher for the publication of extraction therefrom, or for serial use after publication in book form, or for translations, or for abridgments, or as a book club selection shall be divided in the proportion of 50 % to the Author and 50 % to the Publisher. All compensation received by the Publisher for the dramatic or motion picture rights, or for the first serial rights prior to book publication, or for foreign, radio, dramatic, cheap edition, television and/or all other rights in the said literary work shall be similarly divided between the Author and the Publisher as hereabove set forth.

    9. The Publisher agrees to distribute, at his discretion, for purposes of publicity and/or review, promotional information pertaining to the said literary work.

    10. The Publisher agrees to deliver to the Author 2 copies (2 copies each, if more than one author) of the said literary work, on publication, without charge. Should the author wish to purchase additional copies of the said literary work directly from the Publisher, the Publisher agrees to supply the Author with such copies at a discount of 20% from the regular retail price per copy, if the Author orders up to 20 copies at a time, and at a discount of 30% from the regular retail price per copy, if the Author orders 21 copies or more at a time. The Author may dispose of these copies in any manner, and if re-sold, may retain all monies derived therefrom.

    11. The Publisher agrees to keep and maintain true and accurate records relating to the distribution of the copies of the said literary work including reports of all sales and collections therefrom.

    12. The Publisher agrees to render and forward to the Author, in the months of February and August next succeeding the date of publication of the said literary work, and thereafter semi-annual statements of account, along with any payments indicated, for so long as copies of the work subject to royalty are sold. With respect to copies, sold, the statement shall indicate the price of each copy sold. The statement shall indicate both the total royalties payable to Author on sales during the accounting period and the breakdown indicating the royalties attributable to specific kinds of sales. Author may, upon giving sufficient notice of no less than 7 days, examine Publishers record and accounts to the extent that such records and accounts are relevant to the Publication of the said literary work, which shall be done at Author’s expense.

    13. The Publisher shall furnish the Author with an electronic page proof of the work, which conforms to the completed manuscript as submitted by the Author. The Author agrees to return such proof to the Publisher with his (grammar and/or spelling/ and or “type” and/or non-substantial editing) corrections within (15) days or the receipt thereof by him. The cost of alterations in the page proof required by the Author, other than corrections of publishers errors, in excess to 15 (15 per cent) of the original cost of composition, shall be charged against the earning of the Author under this agreement; provided also, however, that the Publisher shall promptly furnish to the Author an itemized statement of such additional expenses, and shall make available at the Publishers office the corrected proof for inspection by the Author or his representatives.

    14. (A) If, in the Publishers opinion, the manuscript of the said literary work requires substantial editing, the Publisher agrees to provide such editorial service without cost or expense to the Author. It is specifically understood and agreed, however, that the Publisher shall make no major revisions, changes and/or alterations therein without first consulting the Author and receiving written permission to do so. (B) The Publisher reserves the right to delete, modify, and/or make such editorial changes and/or revision as they deem advisable in the event that the context, or implication, of any part of the said literary work would in Publishers opinion incite prejudice or defame any group, or any member thereof because of race, religion or nationality; or in the event that any part or parts of the said literary work may be considered, by the Publisher, to be against the public welfare.

    15. If the Author shall make any changes and/or alterations in the proofs of the said literary work as submitted by the Publisher after it has been set up in type (other than corrections of publishers errors), or if the Author shall add additional material thereto at any time after the signing of this agreement, the Publisher agrees to make such changes and/or alterations and to add additional material, only on condition that the said changes and/or alterations and inclusion of any new material shall be approved of by the Publisher as benefiting the said literary work, and on condition, furthermore, that the Author shall pay to the Publisher all the cost involved in so doing.

    16. The Author agrees to revise the work on request of the Publisher, if the Publisher considers it necessary in the best interests of the First and/or future Editions of the work. The provision of this agreement shall apply to each revision of the work by the Author as though that revision were the work being published for the first time under this agreement, except that the manuscript of the revised work shall be delivered in final form by the Author to the Publisher within a reasonable time after a request for revision; further, no initial payment shall be made in connection with such revision.

    17. Sales promotion, advertising and publicity shall be at the Publishers election and discretion as to the extent, scope and character thereof and all matters pertaining thereto. The Author agrees to actively participate in promoting the sales of the said literary work in his hometown area and elsewhere, by making himself available to media interviews, book readings and/or signings, and other public sales promotion appearances.

    18. The Author agrees that all matters dealing with the design and production of the said literary work shall be at the discretion of the Publisher.

    19. Whereas this agreement refers to a First Edition of the said literary work, as designated, the Publisher may produce as many editions thereof, consisting of as many copies as Publisher shall deem advisable, at any time after it ceases to produce copies of the First Edition. On all such subsequent editions that the Publisher may produce, the Author shall receive a return as specified in Provision #3 of this agreement of the sales price of every copy that may be sold and for which the Publisher shall receive payment in money.

    20. Author hereby agrees that the Publisher shall have the exclusive right for the duration of this Agreement to negotiate for the sale, lease, license or other disposition of the said literary work in all hard and/or soft cover or reprint editions in book form. Author furthermore agrees that the Publisher shall have the exclusive right for the duration of this Agreement to negotiate for the sale, lease, license or other disposition of the said literary work in the motion picture, dramatic, radio, television, and/or all other fields only if so instructed by the Author in writing. It is also agreed that the Publisher may engage an agent, or agents, to negotiate, or assist in negotiating, for such sale, lease, license or other disposition. Approval of all terms, provisions and conditions of any and all contracts in connection with any such sale, lease, license or other disposition shall be given by the Author upon the recommendation of the Publisher; and, for that purpose, the Author agrees to duly execute any and all contracts, assignments, instruments and approved papers submitted by the Publisher. All gross monies and compensation received in payment of such sale, lease, license or other disposition shall be collected and dispersed by the Publisher, and all contracts of such sale, lease, license or other disposition shall provide that such monies and compensations are to be paid to the Publisher; and the Publisher is authorized to receive, collect and disperse same and to endorse and deposit all cheques and/or draughts for such payment. All payments due from the Publisher to the Author hereunder shall be made within ninety (90) days from the receipt thereof by the Publisher, accompanied by statements of the amounts received and dispersed.

    21. In the event of the infringement, by others, of the copyright, or other rights, in the said literary work, the Publisher may, in its discretion, sue, or employ other remedies as it may deem expedient, and shall pay to the author fifty per cent of the net recovery.

    22. This agreement is entered into by both parties in good faith, with the mutual understanding that neither party has guaranteed, or is to guarantee, the sale of any specific number of copies of the said literary work, it being impossible to predict, before publication, what success any book may attain.

    23. The Author acknowledges that the Publisher has not made any prior pledges, promises, guarantees, inducements, of whatever nature, either in writing, by word of mouth, or in any form, that are not contained in the terms of this agreement.

    24. When in the judgment of the Publisher, the public demand for the work is no longer sufficient to warrant its continued manufacture, the Publisher may discontinue further manufacture and destroy any or all plates, books, sheets and electronic files without any liability in connection therewith to the Author. However, the Publisher agrees to notify the Author of such decision in writing and will offer to transfer to the Author the work and its rights in the copyrights thereon, the plates (if any), the bound copies and sheet stock (if any) on the following terms FOB point of shipment: at ˝ (half) their original cost, the bound stock at ˝ (half) the list price, and the sheet stock at cost of gathering, folding, sewing and preparing for shipment, all without royalties. In the latter event, unless the Author shall, within 30 days accept said offer and pay the amount set forth in said writing, the Publisher may dispose of the work, copyrights, plates, books, sheets and other property without further liability for royalties or otherwise.

    25. The Publisher agrees to produce the said literary work within 365 days from the date of the signing of this agreement by both parties thereto, provided Publisher is not hindered by causes beyond its own control, or by the Author. Should the Publisher fail to publish the literary work in that time, this agreement shall terminate forthwith and all rights shall revert to the author. However, the mandated publication date may be extended by mutual agreement between the Publisher and the Author.

    26. This agreement shall be binding on and inure to the benefit of, the executors, administrators, heirs and assigns of Author, and the successors and assigns of Publisher. No assignment by Author shall be binding on Publisher without the written consent of the Publisher; provided, however, that Author may assign or transfer any monies due or to become due to him, hereunder.

    27. The Author covenants and represents that the said literary work has not hitherto been published in book form; that it contains no matter that, when published will be libellous or otherwise unlawful, or which will infringe upon any proprietary interest at common law or statutory copyright; that the Author is the sole proprietor of the said literary work and has full power to make this grant and agreement, and that the said work is free of any lien, claim, charge or debt of any kind, and that the Author and his legal successes and/or representatives will hold harmless and keep indemnified the Publisher from all manner of claims, proceeding and expenses, which may be taken or incurred on the ground that said work is subject to any such lien, claim, charge, or debt, or that it is such violation, or that it contains anything libellous or illegal.

    28. The provisions of this agreement shall apply to and bind the heirs, executors, administrators and assigns of the Author, and the successors and assigns of the Publisher.

    29. All unresolved disputes and controversies of any kind in nature within the scope of this agreement (whether arising from fraud, mistake, question of the existence, validity, construction, performance, non-performance, operation or breech) shall be submitted to an arbitrator. An arbitrator and the decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties to the proceeding, subject only to the right of judicial relief as prescribed by law.

    30. Any written notice required under any of the provisions of this agreement shall be deemed to have been properly served by delivery in person or by mailing same to the parties hereto at their addresses as of the date set forth above, except as the addresses may be changed by notice in writing, provided, however, that notices of termination shall be sent by registered mail.

    31. A waiver of any breech of this agreement or any of the terms or conditions by either party hereto, shall not be deemed a waiver of any repetition of such breech or in any way affect any other terms or conditions hereof; no waiver shall be valid or binding unless it shall be in writing, and signed by the parties.

    32. The Author will upon furnishing the Publisher with said literary work in its final version, as an electronic file will receive two copies of the said literary work.

    IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto set their hands and seal the day first above written.

    ____________________________________ ___________________________________

    For Saga Books Author

    ____________________________________ ___________________________________

    Witness Witness
    Last edited by CaoPaux; 06-03-2008 at 09:00 PM. Reason: reformatted to conserve space

  7. #7
    banned as an incurable tosspot
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    Dave, I can't comment on the contract but I live in Calgary. The address shown is a private house on a housing estate. I didn't think those houses were rated for a home business.

    Just a thought.

  8. #8
    I really do look like this. azbikergirl's Avatar
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    By the time I got to #13, I was coughing so hard, I had to quit reading.
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  9. #9
    Dipsomaniac on the floor! tab's Avatar
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    http://www.sagabooks.net/ Doesn't the Heavenly Trinkets site look familiar? I think the person who runs it used to have a PA book. Am I mistaken?

  10. #10
    Empirical Storm Trooper MadScientistMatt's Avatar
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    Wow, this looks like a clear-cut case of contract plagiarism.

  11. #11
    2 WIP? A glutton for punishment astonwest's Avatar
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    Two points:
    -I notice the royalty percentages are better than PA.

    -I also notice that the term of contract is 2 years from the date of signing.
    One has to wonder what the turnaround time is between signing and book release. If it takes a year to produce the book (highly unlikely), your book is under contract for only a year more.

    Not saying that it's a good contract, just pointing those two things out...

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  12. #12
    I heart Malamutes! :-) JerseyGirl1962's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tab
    http://www.sagabooks.net/ Doesn't the Heavenly Trinkets site look familiar? I think the person who runs it used to have a PA book. Am I mistaken?
    I scrolled to the bottom of the page - there are links to PA and Author's Den.

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  13. #13
    Naked Futon Guy allenparker's Avatar
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    prices

    the price of the books seems to be $5.00 less than PA's.

    Allen

  14. #14
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Much more on the website, now: http://www.sagabooks.net/
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  15. #15
    banned as an incurable tosspot
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    From what I've read, book stores tend to stay away from POD-published books so you may not find any on their shelves.

    Does Saga list on Amazon or Barnes & Noble?

  16. #16
    practical experience, FTW Toni1953's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmy
    From what I've read, book stores tend to stay away from POD-published books so you may not find any on their shelves.

    Does Saga list on Amazon or Barnes & Noble?

    The books are listed on the Amazon and B&N websites; I havne't looked in the actual stores but I would also tend to doubt it.
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  17. #17
    the Bruin of Tomorrow™ Atomic Bear's Avatar
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    This is probably my own nit-picking. I wish they had stronger book covers. The Dragon Keeper one is nice and professional, but the rest seem to feel very weak. Some of the books you can't even read the titles since the lettering color matches the value of the art too much. The reader should never have to struggle to read the title of the book.
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  18. #18
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    Saga's contract isn't bad (and they get points for making it available on their website), with a reasonable term (two years from release date) and a termination-at-will clause. However, their covers are ugly and unprofessional-looking (according to the contract, the publisher is responsible for cover art, but the website urges authors to provide their own art, which suggests a publisher that's operating on less than a shoestring budget) and the book prices are POD-high.

    There's no indication that Saga is anything but well-intentioned, but it clearly has little ability to market and distribute its books. It's been said before but it's worth saying again: in terms of sales, exposure, and professional credit, publishing with a micro-press like Saga is little different from vanity POD-ing.

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  19. #19
    banned as an incurable tosspot
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    Question About A Publisher

    I sent my first 3 chapters in as per their guidelines and within a few days I was asked to sign a contract.

    The only thing out of order with it is:

    Section VIII page two of contract: Cover Art and Back Blurb: Publisher shall provide cover art. Any specialized artwork may carry a charge to the author.
    Author will be asked to produce proposed back blurb text and suggestions for cover art. If Author wishes to provide his/her own cover art, this is acceptable but publisher reserves the right to make any necessary corrections. If Author engages an artist other than him/herself to produce an alternative cover, Author must present documentation that he/she has permission to reproduce the proposed cover art from the copyright owner, or warrants that the cover art is in the public domain. If Author provides his/her own cover art, he/she is responsible for formatting it in an appropriate graphics format of suitable reproduction quality. Publisher will give credit in the published Work to the cover artist. Publisher has final approval of any cover art and back blurb material.
    Editing also is free.

    The publisher is independent Saga Books.

    I am willing to give them a go BUT I would attach a revised contract page
    stating the author will not be held responsible for any monies due to cover or any other matter.

    Has anyone here heard of them or gone with them? I'm looking at it as a way to get my name out there.
    Thanks

  20. #20
    Writer is as Writer does Terie's Avatar
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    The thread in Bewares, Recommendations, and Background Checks is here, although the most recent posts are six years old.
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  21. #21
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, but we can't give you specific legal advice on your contract: you should consult your literary agent, or a specialist IP lawyer. Some writers' organisations offer contract-checking services for their members, which you might want to investigate.

    I'll merge this with the existing Saga thread.

  22. #22
    banned as an incurable tosspot
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    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
    Have you, personally, ever read any of their books? Have you seen any of their books in a bookstore?

    I wouldn't dream of submitting to a house unless I'd read and liked a half-dozen or so of their books.
    They only do ebook until 100 copies are sold, then they say they go t paperback.

  23. #23
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    If they only issue a print edition once 100 copies of the electronic edition have been sold, then if you look at how many print editions they sell you'll get an idea of their books' average sales. I bet you could find this out with a little clever Amazon searching.

    However, your response didn't address Jim's point, which had to do with their bookshop presence. I know that sales are moving more and more online: but 40% of online sales are made following selection in a physical bookshop, so it's still important. If their books never make it to bookshop shelves (and remember that "available from" is not the same as "stocked in") then you'll be losing that 40% of sales: they just won't exist.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    If they only issue a print edition once 100 copies of the electronic edition have been sold, then if you look at how many print editions they sell you'll get an idea of their books' average sales. I bet you could find this out with a little clever Amazon searching.

    However, your response didn't address Jim's point, which had to do with their bookshop presence. I know that sales are moving more and more online: but 40% of online sales are made following selection in a physical bookshop, so it's still important. If their books never make it to bookshop shelves (and remember that "available from" is not the same as "stocked in") then you'll be losing that 40% of sales: they just won't exist.
    I don't know who Jim is or what his question was. Furthermore, you didn't ask one. Did you?

  25. #25
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cathy McDowell View Post
    I don't know who Jim is or what his question was. Furthermore, you didn't ask one. Did you?
    Jim is the person you quoted in your previous post:

    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
    Have you, personally, ever read any of their books? Have you seen any of their books in a bookstore?

    I wouldn't dream of submitting to a house unless I'd read and liked a half-dozen or so of their books.
    He actually asked two questions, as you can see. And no, I didn't ask a question: I wasn't aware I was expected to. Ha!

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