Rejectomancy

Adam Israel

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Welcome back, Alex!

Hey there, everyone.
Did I mention how much I hate form Rs? I mean, they're fine if they reject your stuff outright, but if it makes the final round, or if they hold on to it for a long time, or if you have a prior relationship with the editors, a few words of what didn't work for them isn't too much to expect, is it?

I disagree on the part about prior relationship with editors. I'm friendly with several editors, but we've always kept a strict divide between personal and professional relationships. Asking for, or expecting, extra consideration crosses that line, IMO. There are enough people who try to friend up to editors (especially at conventions) in the hopes of getting an in that I do everything I can do avoid being one of those people.

It's always great to get a little bit of extra feedback from any editor, but at the end of the day it's just one person's opinion even if they are the one in a position to buy your story.
 

defcon6000

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Sorry about the R's everyone. :( :e2grouphu

Alex, can I ask what your form R from Unstuck said. Because I'm wondering if the one I got is higher tier, or if they've changed their form from the last time I subbed.
 

Marzioli

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Just saw five stories accepted at Stupefying. I'm a little worried at this point. I was told mine was fourth in the queue and would be accepted in a day or two, once the proper paperwork was pushed through. That was more than a week ago. But these new A's were as much as thirty days less than mine. Despite Duotrope's records, and assuming I read Stupefying's Facebook page correctly, that makes mine the oldest in their system. Hope they didn't change their mind.
 

O'Dandelo

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I'm betting it was a simple oversight, Marzioli. Fingers crossed for you though. That would be a serious bummer...do editors ever change their minds like that?
 

Marzioli

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I'm betting it was a simple oversight, Marzioli. Fingers crossed for you though. That would be a serious bummer...do editors ever change their minds like that?
Granted the details are significantly different, but in that interview you posted it mentioned Shock's editor accepting a piece with the plans of an extensive edit, only to have the writer rebel at every step. He ended up rejecting it, much to the writer's chagrin. (However, you won't catch me fighting an editor over planned edits. Not until I'm pulling in millions a year, backed by every accolade and award available, and having clear indication that the editor in question is a hack).
 

gettingby

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Another rejection today. Man, I thought it was a pretty good story, but now it has been shot down twice.
 

Marzioli

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Another rejection today. Man, I thought it was a pretty good story, but now it has been shot down twice.
Keep it up, my friend! Hopefully you'll fare better than I have, but I have several stories with over ten R's. And the one that might be accepted accumulated at least eight before it found a good home.
 

MeretSeger

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Another rejection today. Man, I thought it was a pretty good story, but now it has been shot down twice.

Keep going. sigh. I have one I really like that has 8 Rs. I may end up saving it so my heirs can sell a "previously unknown" story by me, heheh.
 

alexshvartsman

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I disagree on the part about prior relationship with editors. I'm friendly with several editors, but we've always kept a strict divide between personal and professional relationships. Asking for, or expecting, extra consideration crosses that line, IMO. There are enough people who try to friend up to editors (especially at conventions) in the hopes of getting an in that I do everything I can do avoid being one of those people.

It's always great to get a little bit of extra feedback from any editor, but at the end of the day it's just one person's opinion even if they are the one in a position to buy your story.

I would never expect "special consideration" from editors in terms of selecting my (weaker) story over somebody's stronger one. But a line or two of WHAT didn't work for the editors is, in my opinion, a very reasonable expectation in such a case, and is helpful to both parties because I might be able to submit a more appropriate story next time, thereby wasting less of the editor's time, too.

For example, I am almost always getting a little personal note with my DSF R's now, because I've been submitting to them forever, sold to them, and generally interact with them on Twitter and elsewhere. Their comments are laconic but super helpful.

There is also a matter of market. Smaller markets can't compete on pay or the amount of exposure they offer, so at the very least they should offer reasonably fast turnarounds and a bit of personal feedback to set themselves apart from the more established markets.

When I want my form R, I can always submit something to Clarkesworld :)
 

alexshvartsman

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Alex, can I ask what your form R from Unstuck said. Because I'm wondering if the one I got is higher tier, or if they've changed their form from the last time I subbed.

The one I received from Unstuck was:

Thank you for submitting "XXXXX." Although we're going to pass, we appreciate the chance to read it.

Best of luck with this, and with your other writing projects.

It did stick around there for 8 days, but seems like a low-tier form to me.
 

mhaynes

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Smaller markets can't compete on pay or the amount of exposure they offer, so at the very least they should offer reasonably fast turnarounds and a bit of personal feedback to set themselves apart from the more established markets.

I 100% agree about reasonably fast but I've got mixed feelings about the whole personal-R thing. Certainly if there's something they can tell you which might help you sell a story to them in the future ("Very well-written, but we don't publish much space opera." or whatever) then I can see where it helps both parties.

But by the time a story of mine has gotten to a token market or even penny-per-word markets I'm probably going to be very unlikely to make substantial changes to it for anything other than an explicit rewrite request. Why? Because that story has already burned through some/all of the pro-rate markets I would have thought appropriate for it, so there's little profit in revising it at that point. Better to spend time on a new story, I believe.

It's not that I don't appreciate the personal comments if they are provided, but I can't say it really bothers me if they're not either.

All of that said, if you want a market with the two criteria you mentioned (fast and personal), I will say that The Colored Lens is fantastic on both counts. I sent them several stories a while back and received very quick replies with personal comments.
 

Izz

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I would never expect "special consideration" from editors in terms of selecting my (weaker) story over somebody's stronger one. But a line or two of WHAT didn't work for the editors is, in my opinion, a very reasonable expectation in such a case, and is helpful to both parties because I might be able to submit a more appropriate story next time, thereby wasting less of the editor's time, too.

For example, I am almost always getting a little personal note with my DSF R's now, because I've been submitting to them forever, sold to them, and generally interact with them on Twitter and elsewhere. Their comments are laconic but super helpful.

There is also a matter of market. Smaller markets can't compete on pay or the amount of exposure they offer, so at the very least they should offer reasonably fast turnarounds and a bit of personal feedback to set themselves apart from the more established markets.

When I want my form R, I can always submit something to Clarkesworld :)
Heh--if you ever sit on the editor's side of the fence for a while you may end up feeling differently.
 

Marzioli

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Heh--if you ever sit on the editor's side of the fence for a while you may end up feeling differently.
I wouldn't feel differently! However, I would type the same personal message into every rejection since, let's face it, it's invariably true: "I liked the story concept but noted uneven prose." :D
 
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Polenth

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I wouldn't feel differently! However, I would type the same personal message into every rejection since, let's face it, it's invariably true: "I liked the story concept but noted uneven prose." :D

For people you know it should be: "I like you, but your story makes bunny cry." Keeps it informal and lets them know there's no hard feelings. After all, you mentioned bunnies.
 

Marzioli

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For people you know it should be: "I like you, but your story makes bunny cry." Keeps it informal and lets them know there's no hard feelings. After all, you mentioned bunnies.
And for the winter holiday, "This story ruined my Christmas."
 

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Sorry to hear about the R's, fingers crossed on all the subs still out there.

I'm mixed about personal rejections. As a writer, I like knowing why a story was rejected so I can better target submissions. I'm not looking for a crit, as I have a crit group for that, though comments are happily received.

The times I've sat on the editor's side (not on a SF market) and sent out rejections, I tried to give reasons why but in the end, I found myself writing comments only for stories where the writer showed enough command of the tools of fiction that my comments would be helpful *and* actionable.

For something that was clearly a newbie effort, I felt like "if they could write to a more polished standard than this right now, they wouldn't have submitted this effort," so they wouldn't find a few lines of comment helpful. I might have been wrong on that but as a way to parcel out my brainpower before submission meltdown hit, that's the compromise I came up with.

On the other hand, I just got a form reject from Analog...

So yeah, I like hearing why a story didn't suit the publication, but understand why it isn't practical. And, I suppose, without them, rejectomancy wouldn't be half the fun?

--GreenSquares
 

Polenth

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I'd rather get form rejections most of the time. I brace myself with some markets, as I know the comments will be bad. But there's no way around that really.
 

defcon6000

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The one I received from Unstuck was:



It did stick around there for 8 days, but seems like a low-tier form to me.
Thanks for sharing that, Alex. I guess mine was upper tier.

And 11-day R from Strange Horizon. Can't sub to them again till the 31st.

On personal R's verse form R's. I think I prefer the form, because I've received some rather snotty rejections. That doesn't mean I wouldn't mind a line or two that said what didn't work for them--it may not be the story, but rather, different personal preferences. Like one I received from 10Flash said they didn't care for 2nd-person PoV, so now I know not to submit stories like that to them.
 

Pemako

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I would love to get more personal Rs. The personal Rs I've gotten (except for the complimentary ones - LOL) have completely misunderstood the story, so I've done a bunch of rewriting to try to make things more clear. It's at least helpful to know where things are going astray - though a little frustrating (do slush readers have enough time to really do justice to the stories they have to plough through? Probably not.)
 
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Marzioli

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I got a nice rejection from Redstone. "We have decided to pass on your story, but I wanted to let you know that there is a lot here that we liked. Your story is very emotionally engaging, and well-done." It was very encouraging, especially after a string of difficult R's.
 
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Kitty27

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Sorry about the R's,guys and sending positive vibes to everyone still waiting on replies.

My full is still out. From my research,this agency either takes forever to respond OR the longer they hold onto your MS,the better the outcome.

While I wait,I'm querying my horror novel and have three more novels that will be ready to go by May.

My epic fantasy novel is nearly done and I've found an agent whose specifically interested in EF that is outside the traditional Western/Celtic stuff. EEEEEEEEEEEEEK!
 

gettingby

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I just got my first personal rejection. The editor wrote two paragraphs about my story. It seems like this one was close. I really wish he had just bought it, but he did say he would like to read something else from me in the future. I think I am going to try with my current WIP when it is done. At least I feel as though I am not completely missing the mark.
 

O'Dandelo

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That's a fantastic rejection, Marzioli!

Still no Shock Totem response for me. I think at this point crickets are definitely a good thing. Fingers crossed.