Only 1% is publishable?

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seun

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I went over AR's guidelines approximately three million times before subbing. I'd rather get a rejection because they don't like the book than because I didn't check the guidelines.
 

KathleenD

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I enjoy good advice wherever I get it, but how do lists like these help me? Is it supposed to motivate me or make me feel better about myself? You know, at least I'm not as bad as those people, or at least I hope not. Or was this list for blowing off steam?

No, it's not at all any kind of venting. It's exactly what it says it is - a list of reasons why viable slush is rare. (I've seen the author of that post vent. I can promise you, Slushkiller is not a case of her blowing off steam.)

"I'm not as bad as those people" isn't really a lasting motivation for me. For me it was more like... okay, so, I'd read lots of articles about just how many manuscripts arrive in a publisher's office every day. When I was fantasizing about writing fiction (or more accurately, fantasizing about having sold fiction and how glorious my life would be), I really, really thought I would be one little fish competing against hordes of better writers.

I also thought rejection would be personal (because fiction is personal for some of us), and an evaluation of my skills and fitness for the profession.

Those two things kept me on the sidelines for a long time, even while I was selling non-fic, and I never put myself out there. The dream was only possible as long as no one killed it. I wasn't thinking in those terms of course, but under all the bullshit and the delusion, that's what was lurking.

After I read Slushkiller, I had an understanding of the actual process of manuscript acquisition, a grasp on how few reasons for rejection would have anything to do with me, and the realization that I was already most of the way "there."
 

Eddyz Aquila

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The only person who can't smell bad writing is the person who wrote it.

That's a quite extreme view JAR, isn't it?

There's dozens of authors who are objective and cool headed and know how to make the distinction between bad writing and good, publishable quality.

This objectivity helps explain the route of almost all of the people who got published.
 

Torgo

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That's a quite extreme view JAR, isn't it?

There's dozens of authors who are objective and cool headed and know how to make the distinction between bad writing and good, publishable quality.

This objectivity helps explain the route of almost all of the people who got published.

Interesting. I do think people can criticise their own writing but think they are often poorer critics of their own work than they are of other people's. I think it's also true that someone who has actually finished and submitted something truly awful is likely to be totally oblivious to how bad it is (which explains the route of an awful lot of unsoliciteds.)
 
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JAR isn't saying no-one can judge their own writing - he's saying that the last person to realise a piece of writing is awful, is the person who wrote it.
 

Anne Lyle

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I'm with Scarlett (and JAR, for that matter) - the truly bad writer usually has little insight as to how suckitudinous their own writing actually is.

To quote Dr David Dunning of Cornell University:
When we're incompetent, we're not often in a position to recognize that incompetence. Often we make errors of omission because we're not aware of how we could have done a task in a better or a different way. But because we are unaware of these alternatives, we think instead that we've done just fine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
 

gothicangel

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Interesting. I do think people can criticise their own writing but think they are often poorer critics of their own work than they are of other people's. I think it's also true that someone who has actually finished and submitted something truly awful is likely to be totally oblivious to how bad it is (which explains the route of an awful lot of unsoliciteds.)

The other side is writers like myself who are hyper-critical. If I didn't have deadlines I would never hand anything at university. I always think it's crap, and I'm always proven wrong.

I always end up getting caught up in endless rewrites.
 

Wayne K

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JAR isn't saying no-one can judge their own writing - he's saying that the last person to realise a piece of writing is awful, is the person who wrote it.

I'm with Scarlett (and JAR, for that matter) - the truly bad writer usually has little insight as to how suckitudinous their own writing actually is.

To quote Dr David Dunning of Cornell University:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

This is why I have at least five beta readers on each project
 

kaitie

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I tend to be more critical of my work than my beta readers are, too. I definitely think it depends on the person.
 

Anne Lyle

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Halfway competent writers are often very critical of their own work - the point is that the bottom end of the slushpile don't fall into this category. They simply don't have the basic skills needed to realise that their writing is barely literate.

The study I quoted discovered that if you can boost someone's skills to the point where they can tell bad performance from good, their competence increases noticeably thereafter. But you need to get over that first obstacle or you are doomed.
 

Jamesaritchie

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That's a quite extreme view JAR, isn't it?

There's dozens of authors who are objective and cool headed and know how to make the distinction between bad writing and good, publishable quality.

This objectivity helps explain the route of almost all of the people who got published.

Those writers who are objective and cool headed and who know how to tell good writing from bad are in the one percent who get published, not in the group that never manages it.

Really bad writers are bad because they can't distinguish one from the other, at least not with their own writing. . Those who submit really, truly horrible writing simply have no sense at all of how bad their own writing really is. Really bad writing is plain to nearly everyone, except the person who wrote it.

Maybe you have to read a few slush piles to understand just how unbelievably bad most of the writing is. I'd say forty percent of what lands in slush piles is not just bad, it's illiterate. Another forty percent can't be called illiterate, but it's bad enough that it stand no chance at all of even being considered for publication. The bad jumps off the page, and subjectivity simply doesn't come into play.

You really have to get into the top three percent or so before you start seeing writing that shows any real quality, and with it, writers who obviously know the difference, but can't quite manage it themselves.

On the whole, the quality of writing is so bad that all you have to do to make it into the top ten percent is get the grammar and punctuation correct.

Most fiction shows a lack of understanding in every area. The fiction doesn't just have poor writing, it often has no story at all, no real characters, completely unrealistic dialogue, etc. It barely qualifies as fiction.

But the writers submit it with every expectation of selling it. What else can this mean except that those writers have no clue at all about the quality of their own writing?

The sad thing is that this same group of writers are also the ones who frequently mention how much their beta readers loved the story, or how they had the story professionally edited, or who send along dire warnings about what will happen if you steal their stories. They're also the ones to tend to handle rejection poorly, often by sending back the same sort of replies that make most of us laugh.

I don't think consciously trying to judge your own writing is ever a good idea. It can paralyze new writers, stop them from finishing and submitting anything. But an innate understanding is, I think, what separates those who can write well from those who cannot.

Anyway, my real point is that most of the writing in slush piles is not subjectively bad, it's just plain bad by anyone's standards, except those of whoever wrote it. It's objectively horrible.

The whole idea of subjectivity is a trap. When you start thinking it's subjective, you lose any real reason to improve. But good versus bad is not simply opinion. Bad really is bad. Only good versus good is subjective.
 

Anne Lyle

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But good versus bad is not simply opinion. Bad really is bad. Only good versus good is subjective.

Very true. Otherwise no published author would ever receive a rejection. Yet the very same manuscript can elicit wild enthusiasm from one agent/editor and "meh" from another.

That's why the kind of rejections you get are so important. Nothing but form rejections suggests you're not in that top 1% yet. Once you start getting personalised rejections, then you know you're on the right track.

"Bad" is only subjective in the sense that a book doesn't have to be great to be publishable, merely enjoyable by a sufficiently large percentage of the book-buying public. There are plenty of books out there that I consider excriable, but they have an audience so, whatever...
 
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Alexandermerow

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I Germany about 90000 new books are published every year. This is still a big number and seems to be more than 1%. But who really knows about all that statistics? Just write and wait what happens...
 

Jamesaritchie

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I Germany about 90000 new books are published every year. This is still a big number and seems to be more than 1%. But who really knows about all that statistics? Just write and wait what happens...

What kind of books, and who wrote them? One percent is not just high for a commercial publisher, it would be astronomical.

Let me clarify this a bit. The number of books published has nothing to do with it. Most of the books published are written by established pro writers who have proven they can write and sell. Some of these writers write several books per year, often under pseudonyms.

It's really about how many new writers write publishable books, so you have to look at how many writers actually submit novels, how many first novels published, and even how many novels these writers wrote before selling one, to get the real answer.

The one percent only applies to writers who have never before sold a novel, not to how many books get published overall.
 
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scope

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Really bad writing is plain to nearly everyone, except the person who wrote it.

Maybe you have to read a few slush piles to understand just how unbelievably bad most of the writing is. I'd say forty percent of what lands in slush piles is not just bad, it's illiterate. Another forty percent can't be called illiterate, but it's bad enough that it stand no chance at all of even being considered for publication. The bad jumps off the page, and subjectivity simply doesn't come into play.

You really have to get into the top three percent or so before you start seeing writing that shows any real quality, and with it, writers who obviously know the difference, but can't quite manage it themselves.

On the whole, the quality of writing is so bad that all you have to do to make it into the top ten percent is get the grammar and punctuation correct.


This is so true.
 
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