Just finished No Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthy. WTF?

Prawn

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:roll: Dearie me.....

Whatever Prawn.

Oh! So you didn't flounce, you just said you did. That must be better, somehow.



And for you, ScarletPeaches, let me look up disparage in the dictionary....

Wally Lamb shits on McCarthy from a very great height. He shits on him then wipes his arse on The Road, 'cause he's Wally Lamb and that's how he rolls, yo.

That pretty much covers it!

Lamb's book is now on my list of things to read.

What is missing is the masterpiece of PA fiction that surpasses The Road.

If there is one, I'll read that, too.
 
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I would have thought the image of Lamb taking a dump on a Pulitzer prize winner from a 'very great height' was ridiculous enough to make it clear I was expressing my opinion which boils down to "I don't like McCarthy's work. I love Lamb's."

McCarthy isn't God, and he doesn't deserve fanboys. Not even Lamb does. No writer does.
 

Dandroid

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McCarthy isn't God, and he doesn't deserve fanboys. Not even Lamb does. No writer does.

i agree...except that i always pictured margaret atwood having a clutch of young men about her ready to serve/receive abuse...

she'd deserve it.
 

Michael Wolfe

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What is missing is the masterpiece of PA fiction that surpasses The Road.

A book that's on my reading list that I'm really interested in is "A canticle for Leibowitz". I can't say how it compares to The Road, since I haven't read it yet, but I've heard good things about it, fwiw.
 

Dandroid

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A book that's on my reading list that I'm really interested in is "A canticle for Leibowitz". I can't say how it compares to The Road, since I haven't read it yet, but I've heard good things about it, fwiw.

leibowitz def a classic...closer to oryx and crake than cm....on the beach would be closer to cm for a direct comparison...
 

Prawn

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I liked Canticle well enough. It was more detached, less visceral than The Road, but maybe that had to do with the immediacy of the story in The Road which takes place over the course of a few days or weeks, whereas Canticle took place over years and years.
P
 

Amadan

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Post-Apocalyptic stories better than The Road:

The Gone-Away World, by Nick Harkaway.
Far North, by Marcel Theroux.
Parable of the Sower, by Octavia Butler.

(I'd also include Stephen King's The Stand and Justin Cronin's The Passage personally, but they're much more flawed in terms of literary quality -- but still a hell of a lot more enjoyable than The Road, and I even cared about King's characters more than I cared about McCarthy's father and his mewling son.)
 

Soccer Mom

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Just a reminder to keep things civil in here. Don't make me put anyone in the naughty corner.
 

mirandashell

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Can I just do a quick 'nyer nyer ner ner'? Just for the fun of it? I want to see how far Prawn can spit his dummy. He nearly got the world record last time.

:tongue:D
 
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That won't help! Play nicely, people.

We don't want Dick to get angry.
RichardArmitage378.jpg
 

Prawn

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Post-Apocalyptic stories better than The Road:

The Gone-Away World, by Nick Harkaway.
Far North, by Marcel Theroux.
Parable of the Sower, by Octavia Butler.

(I'd also include Stephen King's The Stand and Justin Cronin's The Passage personally, but they're much more flawed in terms of literary quality -- but still a hell of a lot more enjoyable than The Road, and I even cared about King's characters more than I cared about McCarthy's father and his mewling son.)

At last! Someone with some actual recommendations!

Thanks. I will add the first two to my list. I have read Octavia Butler already.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were better plot-wise, because that is CM's weak spot.
 

Ninjas Love Nixon

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What bothered me most about The Road was that it felt like a continuous stream of deus ex bolted onto a 'man versus nature' scenario that denied the possibility of antagonism and investment. The relationship between father and son also lacked any hint of complexity, which, for me, reinforced the pointlessness of it all: The 'how' of the entire journey was reduced to a single note, which moved from intriguing, to repetitive, to infuriating.

All the McCarthy books I've read are about the end of the world in some shape or form, and maybe making the metaphor literal took all the magic away. I don't know. I just couldn't believe that the man who wrote Blood Meridian (in which almost nothing happens as well, but god damn does it not happen in the most visceral, affecting, and transcendant way) could write something as turgid as The Road.

The punctuation tics never really bothered me, I'm just hoping his next book is another BM, or Suttree, or Border Trilogy, and not another prize winner by inertia.
 
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AVS

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I'm a big McCarthy fan; especially of Blood Meridian, a hypnotic but beautiful and terrible nightmare.

The Road sets out to be a nightmare, and fair play to it, it is. I don't think it's his best work, or even close to it. In my view the Pulitzer feels like the equivalent of an Oscar for lifetime achievement.

Certainly it left a few genre authors (and readers) gnashing their teeth in rage and in my view righteous frustration in their various, never Pulitizer regarded, genre ghettos.
Blood Meridian will be remembered for decades; The Road was more of a gloomy over-extended post-apocalyptic short story.
 

Dr.Gonzo

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I've brought it to work with me. I'm going to read it again :eek:
 

Prawn

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Okay. Started Sartoris, by Faulkner, and also the Willy Lamb book. I read the opening sentence to Sartoris five times. This might take a while.
 

blacbird

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I just gave a copy of Sartoris to a friend of mine who is interested in Faulkner. Many years ago I took a Faulkner course as an undergrad, from a major Faulkner scholar. It was one of the best classes in any subject I ever took. He wanted to start the course with reading Sartoris (which was Faulkner's first Mississippi novel), but it was out of print at the time, and unavailable. Instead, we read the later novel The Unvanquished as a starter. I read Sartoris later, on my own.

But the key thing with Faulkner that I got from this course was that you shouldn't read his prose with that analytical eye we writers here tend to get drilled into our brains as the way to read. His prose accumulates subliminally, almost hypnotically. It's not meant to be dissected with a mind toward sentence diagrams, and the like. You really do need to just go with the flow, when reading Faulkner. You will be rewarded, once you get into his rhythm.
 

Prawn

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Okay! Back after the couple of weeks it took to read some of the other writers recommended on this thread. I read Sartoris, and Lamb's She's Come Undone. Thanks for introducing me to these authors.

Lamb is brilliant in his dialogue, his charming and telling details and his characterization. He reminded me of John Irving, where small things take on a big symbolic significance that almost borders on magical realism at times. However, I had trouble identifying with the main character, a catholic school girl. So the main character and the plot, while brilliant, were as much to my taste as the storylines of McCarthy and Faulkner.

Sartois had similar angst to NCFOM and other novels by Cormac McCarthy. Sartoris was a more muscular, less introspective book than She's come undone. I liked it, and its more expansive cast of characters better than Lamb's smaller drama, but Faulkner was not easy for me to read. Perhaps this is my failing, but I expect to be entertained and Sartoris made me work too hard for the entertainment it provided.

So, sorry to sound like a fanboy, but I like both the manly characters of and the life or death stakes of Faulker and McCarthy better than the more intimate drama in She's Come Undone, and I liked the writing of McCarthy better than the writing of Faulkner because it is more accessible.

If Faulkner were alive, and all three of these authors came out with a new book, I would probably read McCarthy first, Lamb second, and Faulkner only if I felt like a challenge.

Prawn
 

Escape Artist

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I loved NCFOM, and I loved The Road even more. The way I look at storytelling--and this could just be my own hare-brained opinion--is that a writer should use whatever is necessary to effectively tell the story. That goes for word choice, punctuation, everything. McCarthy must feel like he doesn't need quotation marks (or several other conventions) to tell his stories. Not every writer should tell a story that way, but for him it works.

Were you ever confused about who was talking or what was spoken vs. what was thought (and I don't say that condescendingly--those are honest questions)? Personally, I wasn't confused, and I'm certainly no genius. There's a simple beauty in McCarthy's language that wouldn't be the same if he adhered to the same rules to which I, for instance, adhere.

I find his word choice poetic and brutal. A novel like All the Pretty Horses, for instance, doesn't exactly boast a revolutionary plot; McCarthy's artistry, however, elevates a relatively simple idea to something very memorable.

Reading back through this post, I find that I've been somewhat vague. I wish I had one of his books in front of me so I could give you an example of what I mean...but then again, I don't wish that, because I need to get back to editing my WIP.

I'll just end by saying McCarthy has not only moved me to tears (The Road is one of my top ten novels ever) and scared the hell out of me (NCFOM chilled me to the marrow), but he's taught me a heck of a lot about writing, too. If I can pen one relationship half as lovely and true as the father-son relationship in The Road, I'll have accomplished something very special.

^ This...

I loved, loved, loved The Road and would definitely considering reading his other novels. For me, there doesn't have to be a lot of "stuff" going on for a book to be interesting. To me, this book was more about sloughing away all that superfluous stuff and getting to the meat of who we are as people. You get to see how different people react in such a bleak situation. I read this book in one sitting and cried my eyes out. It was very moving. I loved the conversation that popped up from time to time where the boy asked if they were still "the good guys".

I'd highly recommend the book to anyone, but then, I loves me some 1984 as well and a lot of people don't like it, either. I tend to like depressing, bleak novels.
 

ViolettaVane

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I loved The Road. McCarthy is a fantastic stylist, and for me, his imagery and tricks of language are well worth putting up with nonstandard punctuation.
 

Vito

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I tried to read McCarthy's The Crossing, and I quickly got accustomed to the funky punctation. What really tripped me out was the Spanish dialogue. Not just a few familiar Spanish words here and there, but big ol' slabs of Spanish. Sort of like this...

Billy was standing behind the bar of the cantina when two men walked through the doorway. One was mexican and the other was indian. The mexican started talking to Billy.

Donde esta el quarto de bano?

Sorry, the restroom is for customers only.

Yo tengo no dinero.

I said customers only.

Es un emergencia!

Billy silently pointed to a handwritten sign behind the bar that said restroom for customers only.

Pretty please, with sugar on top?

No, customers only.

The mexican and the indian got mad and started saying bad words.

Cabron!

Pendejo!

Tu madre!

La bamba!

Billy then reached under the bar and pulled out a shotgun. He pumped the shotgun and aimed it at the mexican's head. Solamente clientes, he said.

The mexican and the indian slowly backed away toward the door. Before stepping outside the indian extended his middle finger and flipped Billy off. Billy didn't notice the finger but he noticed the cowlick of shiny dark black hair standing up on the back of the indian's head. Silhouetted against the full moon in the blackened sky the cowlick looked like a dagger aimed at heaven.

The indian's cowlick made Billy think of Alfalfa. And thinking of Alfalfa made him think of Spanky and Buckwheat. And thinking of Alfalfa and Spanky and Buckwheat made Billy think of Petey, the bull terrier with loops around his eyes like the rings of Jupiter. And thinking of Petey made Billy think of the wolf.

The wolf. Lobo.

Where is she?

Maybe she's here. Maybe she aint.