The W1S1 Check-in and Chill Lounge and Bar
- Thread starter Izz
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Does he have no dreams or goals or hobbies?
*refrains from saying anything else to avoid words and observations he will later regret*
*refrains from saying anything else to avoid words and observations he will later regret*
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sf.writer. Welcome.
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I'm curious about everyone's experience so far, when it comes to revising and submitting.
I pulled out my week 9 story last night, one that I've submitted twice now and is still in submission, and was surprised at how loose and baggy it was. Places where it needed to be tightened virtually popped out at me. I'd revised the story at least a couple times before sending it out, and had made a few changes before it went out the second time, which is something I don't generally do.
I still have some very early stories (and many over the whole course) that I haven't finished revising, because they just don't feel right.
Yet there are some stories I've writtten that I've sent out within two days or a week that were not only the longest ones, but that were accepted first time out. I think I was coming up against the submission deadlines for those, I had a specific idea for a specific market, and did the writing and revising "in the zone," so to speak. Yet a 1000-word story from 14 weeks ago was still not really there after multiple revisions.
Unless I'm in "the zone" when I write and revise something, and I'm starting to recognize that feeling when I am which may be one of the biggest benefits for me, I really need time and perspective before I can adequately revise. After a long time away from the words, I can look at them and the places that aren't very good absolutely pop out, so much so that I'm agape at how I missed it before.
It's a great feeling when that happens (and I mean, for me at least, it really is a rush) and I'm able to tighten down a sentence and cut away half of it while making it better. But I do think, for me, sometimes that comes weeks or months after the first draft, despite my best efforts. Sometimes it happens in a day or two, but not normally.
How is everyone else doing on that front? Have you found yourself writing a story, revising it and submitting that same week (or the next, like I did manage a few times)? Or are you still putting the stories aside to really comb over later?
I'm not asking to compare myself to anyone and start to feel like I should be doing something differently, I'm just curious. Is it speeding up your revision while also making it better (or keeping it as good as before)? How do you feel your revision/submission process has changed now that we're almost 6 months in?
I'd love to discuss it and see several different experiences.
Shelley
I pulled out my week 9 story last night, one that I've submitted twice now and is still in submission, and was surprised at how loose and baggy it was. Places where it needed to be tightened virtually popped out at me. I'd revised the story at least a couple times before sending it out, and had made a few changes before it went out the second time, which is something I don't generally do.
I still have some very early stories (and many over the whole course) that I haven't finished revising, because they just don't feel right.
Yet there are some stories I've writtten that I've sent out within two days or a week that were not only the longest ones, but that were accepted first time out. I think I was coming up against the submission deadlines for those, I had a specific idea for a specific market, and did the writing and revising "in the zone," so to speak. Yet a 1000-word story from 14 weeks ago was still not really there after multiple revisions.
Unless I'm in "the zone" when I write and revise something, and I'm starting to recognize that feeling when I am which may be one of the biggest benefits for me, I really need time and perspective before I can adequately revise. After a long time away from the words, I can look at them and the places that aren't very good absolutely pop out, so much so that I'm agape at how I missed it before.
It's a great feeling when that happens (and I mean, for me at least, it really is a rush) and I'm able to tighten down a sentence and cut away half of it while making it better. But I do think, for me, sometimes that comes weeks or months after the first draft, despite my best efforts. Sometimes it happens in a day or two, but not normally.
How is everyone else doing on that front? Have you found yourself writing a story, revising it and submitting that same week (or the next, like I did manage a few times)? Or are you still putting the stories aside to really comb over later?
I'm not asking to compare myself to anyone and start to feel like I should be doing something differently, I'm just curious. Is it speeding up your revision while also making it better (or keeping it as good as before)? How do you feel your revision/submission process has changed now that we're almost 6 months in?
I'd love to discuss it and see several different experiences.
Shelley
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I essentially have developed two story tracks:
1. My great idea stories. These are the ones I think are potentially pro stories. I keep these around longer, revising them, letting them sit a week, revising them, subbing them to critters, etc.
2. Other stories. I'll revise and then submit when I'm sick of them.
However, every time I get a rejection and look at the story again, I always see problems that can be fixed. Some of the stories seem genuinely broken, and go into the trunk for now. Others just need some work and I still like them.
I feel with this process, I'm writing so much that the writer I was a few months ago is not the writer I am now. And it's not just me: my feedback is changing. The more I write/read/provide feedback, the more I learn, and the more I see the mistakes in my old stories.
Which is what I think this is all about. W1S1 is a writing accelerator.
1. My great idea stories. These are the ones I think are potentially pro stories. I keep these around longer, revising them, letting them sit a week, revising them, subbing them to critters, etc.
2. Other stories. I'll revise and then submit when I'm sick of them.
However, every time I get a rejection and look at the story again, I always see problems that can be fixed. Some of the stories seem genuinely broken, and go into the trunk for now. Others just need some work and I still like them.
I feel with this process, I'm writing so much that the writer I was a few months ago is not the writer I am now. And it's not just me: my feedback is changing. The more I write/read/provide feedback, the more I learn, and the more I see the mistakes in my old stories.
Which is what I think this is all about. W1S1 is a writing accelerator.
When I write short stories usually one of two things happens.
A) I write like mad and at the end of an hour or two I have a solid story that needs a few tweaks before hitting the submission circuit.
B) I write bits and pieces and spend the next year trying to put the whole thing together.
If I can fit a story into 3k I'm usually good. Anything over that but under novella length I tend to struggle with.
Thanks to everyone for the emotional support. Sorry I dragged my personal drama in here. I just get frustrated sometimes with all the waiting and trying to cram a career-making amount of effort into a minor hobby's amount of time.
I'm feeling a little better about it this morning, if only because I woke up with a brand new story idea banging in my head. Something outside my normal speculative realm. Going to try and slam it out this afternoon.
A) I write like mad and at the end of an hour or two I have a solid story that needs a few tweaks before hitting the submission circuit.
B) I write bits and pieces and spend the next year trying to put the whole thing together.
If I can fit a story into 3k I'm usually good. Anything over that but under novella length I tend to struggle with.
Thanks to everyone for the emotional support. Sorry I dragged my personal drama in here. I just get frustrated sometimes with all the waiting and trying to cram a career-making amount of effort into a minor hobby's amount of time.
I'm feeling a little better about it this morning, if only because I woke up with a brand new story idea banging in my head. Something outside my normal speculative realm. Going to try and slam it out this afternoon.
defcon6000
Banned
Well, so far, I've only submitted one flash piece; it was several years old, but I still liked it after all this time, so had it polished, ran it through SYW and zee writing mentor, and sent it out.
I can pound out a flash piece in a day if I'm in "the zone". Short stories seem to take me a little longer. But I always, always let my stuff sit for a day or so, sometimes longer. Just to give me some time to look at objectively and see if there's any value in it. If so, I'll spend the time polishing it, have it be ripped to shreds on SYW and go back to revising.
I can pound out a flash piece in a day if I'm in "the zone". Short stories seem to take me a little longer. But I always, always let my stuff sit for a day or so, sometimes longer. Just to give me some time to look at objectively and see if there's any value in it. If so, I'll spend the time polishing it, have it be ripped to shreds on SYW and go back to revising.
I guess my experience is different from most here. I find as a rule, if I try to rewrite, I actually make stories worse not better. And I hate doing it, so I end up writing less. So I don't rewrite.
I finish the story, spell check it, and then submit it. Often within ten minutes of finishing. However, I often cycle... if I get stuck, I go back and read through the story changing details if I want to.
Of course, there is no right way, and people who are better at rewriting than me get good results doing it.
zanzjan
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Welcome!
Well, hey, that's what friends are for, right? And yay for the new story idea! (-:
That really varies by story for me. In general, completing the first draft of a story can either be a focused drive from beginning to end or a dazed wander. Some stories I'll pick up and put down many times, and I almost always have multiple unfinished first drafts in the works at any given time. If I stall on one, I just pick up another for a bit, and so on. Once I've got a completed first draft, I get a lot more impatient about finishing it, and very rarely do I interrupt revisions on something to work on anything else. Once it feels done, and my beta readers are happy with it, it pretty much goes out the door immediately.
That said, I'll frequently "tinker" a bit on a story when it comes back from a sub, particularly if it's been away for a long time. At the point at which I can't muster enough enthusiasm to read it through and kill a few more commas, usually that's about when I trunk the story, often permanently. So to take as example the most recent short story I sent out, when I sent it out I was really, really happy and pleased with it. Since sending it (a whopping 26 days ago) the nagging feeling that I just missed the bullseye with the ending has been growing, and when it comes back (I don't, as a rule, tinker with stories that are out on sub) I'm certainly going to be going through it again before its next journey. OTOH, the story that's now been out for 406 days is likely to get trunked if/when it eventually gets rejected because I've been over it enough to not feel like there's anything that can be done to improve it and it's racked up enough Rs that apparently I'm the only one who likes it. And I do really like it, so it makes me sad it hasn't found any love out there.
-Suzanne
defcon6000
Banned
Haha, I do this too! That's why I run everything pass my writing mentor so he can bonk me over the head if I'm actually making it worse (and I recently did that with a short story).
Oh hey, sorry I missed ya sf.
Mine are all different. Some are really fast to write, some are like pulling teeth.
When I'm in the 'zone' I write stuff that I like, but that would probably never sell.
Revising. Once something is done I revise, some things only seem to need a little bit, some things need loads.
Then I leave it a day or two and read it through and catch a few more things.
Or sometimes I think that it's just not right.
The Pig Story got rewritten three times before I was happy. It took weeks between each rewrite.
Once something is submitted I'll not look at it again.
I never have.
I take it that most of them are terrible because they keep coming back. But I just send them back out without looking.
If I looked I'd hit delete and give up.
So, yeah. Head in the sand, pretty much.
When I'm in the 'zone' I write stuff that I like, but that would probably never sell.
Revising. Once something is done I revise, some things only seem to need a little bit, some things need loads.
Then I leave it a day or two and read it through and catch a few more things.
Or sometimes I think that it's just not right.
The Pig Story got rewritten three times before I was happy. It took weeks between each rewrite.
Once something is submitted I'll not look at it again.
I never have.
I take it that most of them are terrible because they keep coming back. But I just send them back out without looking.
If I looked I'd hit delete and give up.
So, yeah. Head in the sand, pretty much.
I'm like most of you in that the process varies from story to story. My stories always need revision and usually a lot of it. It's very rare that I can sit down and write a story from beginning to end. It always comes out in disjointed chunks. I spend most of my revision time trying to tie those chunks together. Not the most efficient method, but that's just how my brain works, apparently.
Once I've got a solid first draft, I wait a few days and start fleshing out sections. I tend to write short and gloss over important details, so by waiting a few days I can see where the story is thin and even where it's too bulky.
If everything goes right, I wait a day or two, perform line edits, send it to betas and then it's on its way. But often, my stories don't come out right and need a lot of time to go by before I get enough perspective to figure them out. I feel like I'm always scolding them, "you just don't know what you want to be, do you?"
It's great to hear different takes on the process. We're all in this together in our own unique ways.
Once I've got a solid first draft, I wait a few days and start fleshing out sections. I tend to write short and gloss over important details, so by waiting a few days I can see where the story is thin and even where it's too bulky.
If everything goes right, I wait a day or two, perform line edits, send it to betas and then it's on its way. But often, my stories don't come out right and need a lot of time to go by before I get enough perspective to figure them out. I feel like I'm always scolding them, "you just don't know what you want to be, do you?"
It's great to hear different takes on the process. We're all in this together in our own unique ways.
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It's as interesting as I thought it'd be to see everyone's approaches (which, surprisingly, are actually more alike than they are different).
I have to say I'm impressed that you can sell stories that way, because I know I couldn't! My first drafts are always written pretty quickly, and end up a bit on the loose and baggy side. I don't think I'm capable of producing a first draft that only needs spellcheck. And I'm sure that if I tried, it would take a lot of the fun out of the creative process for me. Kudos to you! Do what works.
I immediately thought of Gumout. W1S1: Like Gumout for my brain.
Shelley
I have to say I'm impressed that you can sell stories that way, because I know I couldn't!
My first drafts are always written pretty quickly, and end up a bit on the loose and baggy side. I don't think I'm capable of producing a first draft that only needs spellcheck. And I'm sure that if I tried, it would take a lot of the fun out of the creative process for me. Kudos to you! Do what works.MattJ said:
I immediately thought of Gumout. W1S1: Like Gumout for my brain.
Shelley
Some stories come out easier than others. There've been a few that took no more than a few hours to write and only required the smallest of revisions before I sent them out. Those tend to sell the quickest too, although I'm never as attached to them, so I'm less likely to revise them in the first place.
The stories I love best are the novelettes which might take a month or so to finish properly. The ones I really struggle with and want to be as perfect as possible before they start getting rejections. Because I've fiddled with them more, those stories need more time to breathe before getting sent out.
After a rejection, I usually don't even look at a story before sending it on to the next market. What one market dislikes, another might like. Besides, I'd just end up tinkering with every story forever and never sell anything. Best to just send it on.
The stories I love best are the novelettes which might take a month or so to finish properly. The ones I really struggle with and want to be as perfect as possible before they start getting rejections. Because I've fiddled with them more, those stories need more time to breathe before getting sent out.
After a rejection, I usually don't even look at a story before sending it on to the next market. What one market dislikes, another might like. Besides, I'd just end up tinkering with every story forever and never sell anything. Best to just send it on.
Great question, Shelly!
A couple of years ago, when I first started writing for publication and not for personal entertainment, I had a habit of finishing and submitting, with no revision in between. I read Stephen King's "On Writing," and tried to follow its advice of letting the finished story stew for a week or two before attempting revisions. Neither of these practices worked.
So what I do now, generally, is finish a story, set it down, and return to it the next day for a read-through, making changes I go. Depending on how many changes I've made on that first cut, I may go back and do another. If I've changed a lot, for example, I'll give it a second and sometimes third read. But if I'm okay with that first edit, then I'll just send it out and be done with it, and I won't touch it again until someone gives me some good editorial advice or I've struck out a dozen or so times.
One thing I've heard from a lot of published authors is to avoid revising after a rejection. Unless they've given you editorial advice that you understand and agree with, don't do it. Leave the story as it is.
A couple of years ago, when I first started writing for publication and not for personal entertainment, I had a habit of finishing and submitting, with no revision in between. I read Stephen King's "On Writing," and tried to follow its advice of letting the finished story stew for a week or two before attempting revisions. Neither of these practices worked.
So what I do now, generally, is finish a story, set it down, and return to it the next day for a read-through, making changes I go. Depending on how many changes I've made on that first cut, I may go back and do another. If I've changed a lot, for example, I'll give it a second and sometimes third read. But if I'm okay with that first edit, then I'll just send it out and be done with it, and I won't touch it again until someone gives me some good editorial advice or I've struck out a dozen or so times.
One thing I've heard from a lot of published authors is to avoid revising after a rejection. Unless they've given you editorial advice that you understand and agree with, don't do it. Leave the story as it is.
I have exciting news, peeps. Well, exciting for me, at any rate
(extra white space for dramatic effect)
I'm starting up a zine.
This is something i've wanted to do for a while, but up until a couple days ago it'd just been simmering away on a low heat in the back of my brain.
But now it's hit bubble-over proportions and i have to do something with it. I've calculated my expenses (budgeting for the worst), and have discovered it's within my financial reach. I've looked at my available time and other responsibilities and i've never been in a better position than i am now to make a go of this.
Here's a quick breakdown:
The planned launch date is Jan 1, 2012, but i hope to be accepting subs within a month of now.
I have one fairly important thing i still need to do: Name the thing!
Once a name has been gotten, i'll purchase a domain, slap up a submissions page and appropriate email addresses and start working on the website.
For the first two issues at least, this will be a solo affair. After that i should have an idea of the actual workload and consider getting on volunteer slushies and department editors accordingly.
As you might be able to tell, i'm excited. It will mean i'll have to step back a bit from our various challenges, though i'll still cheerlead and participate as much as i'm able.
At this stage, the plan is to run the zine for a year. Of course, hopefully i'd be able to continue it past then, but a year/4 issues seems like a good thing to aim for initially.
But the name! The difficulty, as i'm seeing it, is that the zine will straddle several different genres, so it needs a name that reflects that.
I'm open to suggestions, of course
(extra white space for dramatic effect)
I'm starting up a zine.
This is something i've wanted to do for a while, but up until a couple days ago it'd just been simmering away on a low heat in the back of my brain.
But now it's hit bubble-over proportions and i have to do something with it. I've calculated my expenses (budgeting for the worst), and have discovered it's within my financial reach. I've looked at my available time and other responsibilities and i've never been in a better position than i am now to make a go of this.
Here's a quick breakdown:
The planned launch date is Jan 1, 2012, but i hope to be accepting subs within a month of now.
I have one fairly important thing i still need to do: Name the thing!
Once a name has been gotten, i'll purchase a domain, slap up a submissions page and appropriate email addresses and start working on the website.
For the first two issues at least, this will be a solo affair. After that i should have an idea of the actual workload and consider getting on volunteer slushies and department editors accordingly.
As you might be able to tell, i'm excited. It will mean i'll have to step back a bit from our various challenges, though i'll still cheerlead and participate as much as i'm able.
At this stage, the plan is to run the zine for a year. Of course, hopefully i'd be able to continue it past then, but a year/4 issues seems like a good thing to aim for initially.
But the name! The difficulty, as i'm seeing it, is that the zine will straddle several different genres, so it needs a name that reflects that.
I'm open to suggestions, of course
Bloody hell!
Congratulations, Izz
Hope it all goes well for you.
I'm no good at names, but if I think of one I'll let you know.
Edit.
Dancing sheep for you!
You do know you are going to have to send rejections to all of us, don't you!
And then commiserate with us when we come here to moan about it...
Congratulations, Izz
Hope it all goes well for you.
I'm no good at names, but if I think of one I'll let you know.
Edit.
Dancing sheep for you!
You do know you are going to have to send rejections to all of us, don't you!
And then commiserate with us when we come here to moan about it...
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defcon6000
Banned
(yeah, smilie overload)
defcon6000
Banned