What are the Odds?

Well, I haven't worked out a mathematical formula, but my husband knows that if my brain is damaged, pull the plug. A brainstem and a heartbeat don't make a life. And I don't want to waste away in a hospital bed. At least that's my view. If he goes before I do, I hope I don't end up with a POA that will force me to stay alive at all costs.

*Backs slowly out of thread rather than risk bannination*

I'd want to retain at least 75% of my functions. If it's anything less than that; if I can't clean myself up in the bathroom or feed myself then, well, what's the point of living? I'd hate to be a burden to the people I love and, frankly, I've got a little too much pride. I can't stand the thought of wasting space on this good Earth as an invalid or, worse, a vegetable.

kayleamay said:

Well, I haven't worked out a mathematical formula, but my husband knows that if my brain is damaged, pull the plug. A brainstem and a heartbeat don't make a life. And I don't want to waste away in a hospital bed. At least that's my view. If he goes before I do, I hope I don't end up with a POA that will force me to stay alive at all costs.

Click to expand...

Well, after I die I don't care what happens, and brain-dead is death in my book. I will not care anymore.

LOG said:

Well, after I die I don't care what happens, and brain-dead is death in my book. I will not care anymore.

Click to expand...

I care because I don't want to be a burden to my family, or anyone else for that matter.

kayleamay said:

Well, I haven't worked out a mathematical formula, but my husband knows that if my brain is damaged, pull the plug. A brainstem and a heartbeat don't make a life. And I don't want to waste away in a hospital bed. At least that's my view. If he goes before I do, I hope I don't end up with a POA that will force me to stay alive at all costs.

Click to expand...

My husband and I have the same understanding. Neither of us wants to be a burden for the other, nor do we want to be physically alive while emotionally or physically (or both) unaware of that life we can't take part in.

I said fifty percent chance of normal function and moderate disability (like paralyzed from the waist down or losing my sight) would be acceptable. Any greater disability or the chances are less than 10%, then the plug should be pulled on me.

If I can't write or talk, kill me. I'm an extrovert. I'd rather be dead.

If I'm just a funtioning body with no mind, then I'm gone. But I would want to live otherwise.

GeorgeK said:

The abortion thread and the end of life thread got me thinking. In a scenario where you are the patient and your own opinion is not allowed to be known by the the person making your medical decisions, so it has to be a proxy consent situation, what are the odds that that person should use to make their opinion on whether to pull the plug or abort you? Poll is anonymous and should aloow multiple responses.

Click to expand...

Could you please rephrase this question in standard English?

I have no fucking idea what the OP means either, Magdalen.

What I will say is: I have a living will, and have done since I was in my late teens. Next of kin or anyone else's opinion doesn't come into it.

I think he's asking if your next of kin doesn't know what you want, then what are the odds their own moral code will have them follow your wishes.

There are too many variables there to make a determination. Your feelings, the medical, proxy's, the presence or absence of DNR orders, if the incapacitation is to a minor, in which case the state can step in to protect the patient's rights...

scarletpeaches said:

I have no fucking idea what the OP means either, Magdalen.

What I will say is: I have a living will, and have done since I was in my late teens. Next of kin or anyone else's opinion doesn't come into it.

Click to expand...

It would in the US.

Not with a living will it wouldn't. If the patient's wishes are in black and white, signed and witnessed...mind you, you have that weird healthcare system going on where poor people are left to die in the streets.

Ya damn weirdos.

ETA: In response to SP.

But in the US, a family member can come in at the last minute, say they want you to live and that is what the docs have to do. Sucks, doesn't it?

kayleamay said:

ETA: In response to SP.

But in the US, a family member can come in at the last minute, say they want you to live and that is what the docs have to do. Sucks, doesn't it?

Click to expand...

No, because those are the wishes I set out in my living will.

I can understand someone saying "Keep the machine switched on," even if you've said "No, switch it off," because where there's life, there's hope, after all.

What I would have a problem with is someone saying, "Meh, switch it off," when I'd said "NOES! I ARE STILL IN HYUH!"

scarletpeaches said:

Not with a living will it wouldn't. If the patient's wishes are in black and white, signed and witnessed...mind you, you have that weird healthcare system going on where poor people are left to die in the streets.

Ya damn weirdos.

Click to expand...

Even with a DNR and executed living will, the hospitals have asked for next of kin consent in every end-of-life case I've been witness to - that's at least three in the last ten years.

They also require a separate DNR for "death in transit", meaning if they're transferring someone from hospital A to hospice or hospital B and they flatline in the ambulance, and there's not DIT DNR (the letters give me headaches!), they will attempt to resuscitate.

2 different hospitals, and one hospice.

Go back another five or so years, and there was a horrible mess with my great-grandmother, to the other extreme. Her care facility decided that "living will" meant no medications, even basic antibiotics.

They're a mess over here.

I'm fairly certain the only facility that honored the person's living will verbatim was the VA hospital with my uncle.

Cyia said:

I think he's asking if your next of kin doesn't know what you want, then what are the odds their own moral code will have them follow your wishes.

Click to expand...

No, he's asking what the tipping point should be. Doctors can't predict whether you'll recover or not, but they have statistics on outcomes for other patients in similar circumstances. What would those statistics have to be for your family to pull the plug?

I don't have an answer. I don't have a living will yet, and I haven't broken this down to numbers. I think my husband and I have similar ideas about quality vs. quantity of life, and I would trust him. Although I'd say if I'll be too dependent to be able to successfully kill myself, then let me die. Otherwise, if I disagree with the decision, I can always correct it...

Define "normal function." For that matter, define "disability." There is a world of difference between a 25% physical impairment and a 25% mental impairment.

Would a living will be as easily ignored if it was tattoed on the patients chest? Just curious. (And maybe planning.)