Did you buy my book - Congressional Bible Study?

Kirk Fraser · Mar 5, 2011

I just received my royalty letter from PA which claims I had only one sale so of course no royalties. My webpage counter for the buy page has 55 unique clicks between Sept. 1 and Dec. 31 of which 17 were from this forum. I know it's likely everyone from here was just looking at how I set up my website but if anyone actually did buy a copy, it would help me prove breach of contract by PA if you provide details. Thank you.

People who might want to help but not admit it here, you can email me [email protected] Thank you.

PS: BTW, I am finally convinced all who said move on from PA were correct. They'll never get another dollar or manuscript from me.

Mac H. · Mar 5, 2011

My webpage counter for the buy page has 55 unique clicks

That's a pretty good conversion rate ... 1 in 55 visitors end up buying.

It's unlikely that P.A is intentionally breaching contract like this - but good luck.

Mac
(PS: I was probably one of those visitors and, alas, no sale to me)

Terie · Mar 6, 2011

Kirk, you REALLY need to edit your post to change your e-mail address. Spam spiders get e-mail addresses from sites and you'll substantially increase your spam. The easiest way, if you really do want to keep your e-mail address this public (which, personally, I can't imagine why you would

), is to change the @ to (at). Humans know how to handle that and make it back into a proper e-mail address, but the spam spiders won't pick your address up that way.

If it were me, I'd remove the address entirely and suggest that people contact you via private message here through AW.

mscelina · Mar 6, 2011

want to keep your e-mail address this pubic

ahem! What Terie said.

*looks innocent and slinks away*

IceCreamEmpress · Mar 7, 2011

I clicked your website and didn't order your book, in case that's helpful data.

I wish you well with your book, though!

Marian Perera · Mar 7, 2011

Kirk Fraser said:
PS: BTW, I am finally convinced all who said move on from PA were correct. They'll never get another dollar or manuscript from me.

That's good to hear. Best of luck with your book!

Kirk Fraser · Mar 8, 2011

The conversion rate for me was much worse. 1,017 unique clicks on my webpage filtering down to 55 unique clicks on my "buy" page, down to one definite buy. I'm still looking for any other buyer but that's about 1:1000 or 0.1%.

So far it's looking like the targeted advertizing to Congressmen in the Congressional Prayer Caucus was as much a waste of time as all the rest of my work. All I got for it was $0 from my one PA buy and $10 from someone nice enough to pay me to send a .pdf copy "under the table".

Anyone here who wants a free .pdf copy, send me an email address to send to.

JulieB · Mar 8, 2011

Kirk Fraser said:
The conversion rate for me was much worse. 1,017 unique clicks on my webpage filtering down to 55 unique clicks on my "buy" page, down to one definite buy. I'm still looking for any other buyer but that's about 1:1000 or 0.1%.

Wow, you're really drilling down and looking at those web stats. Refreshing to see someone who gets that hits do not automatically equal sales.

Kirk Fraser · Mar 8, 2011

In direct mail marketing a rate of 10% is excellent, 1-2% is barely profitable, and 0.1% would be losing money. With the charges advertizing services have like Google AdWords and MSN Ads, an order of magnitude more impressions must be made to get one home page click. So it's about 10K to 100K ad views to get 1K home page views and 1 order.

PA's policy of not paying any royalty until $49 has been earned is a disappointment. Even $2 would be something to encourage me onward. So they've shot themselves in the foot. No more working for NOTHING. And if I find there is an accounting error, they're fired anyway.

Unimportant · Mar 8, 2011

IceCreamEmpress said:
I clicked your website and didn't order your book, in case that's helpful data.

Ditto.

Kirk Fraser · Mar 9, 2011

To those who clicked but didn't order, it's unnecessary information thanks. I need any people who actually purchased to refute PA.

Total clicks by AW forum users since Sept. 1 = 324.
Unique clicks by AW users since Sept. 1 = 214.
Clicks on "buy" button by AW users since Sept. 1 = 20.
Unique Clicks on "buy" button by AW users upto Dec. 31 = 17.

It's those 17 forum users, if any actually bought, who can be helpful to challenge PA's accounting. Thanks.

JulieB · Mar 9, 2011

Sorry, I can't recall: Did the "buy" page/button go directly to PA for sales? You can track people who clicked through to PA, but not who bought there.

Chris P · Mar 9, 2011

Kirk Fraser said:
PA's policy of not paying any royalty until $49 has been earned is a disappointment.

Glad to see you back around here, Kirk. This is a total derail, but what does your contract say if the contract expires with unpaid royalties outstanding? My PA contract (signed in 2007) pays me every six months, even if it's only $1.49 for the sale of a single book. I venture that many authors will have to wait seven years to collect less than $50 royalities (I would have to).

Kirk Fraser · Mar 9, 2011

JulieB said:
Sorry, I can't recall: Did the "buy" page/button go directly to PA for sales? You can track people who clicked through to PA, but not who bought there.

It did go to PA until my earlier thread on AW convinced me to change the link to Amazon since they might deliver faster. Yes I can track clicks, not buys, which is why I need this thread.

Kirk Fraser · Mar 9, 2011

Chris P said:
Glad to see you back around here, Kirk. This is a total derail, but what does your contract say if the contract expires with unpaid royalties outstanding? My PA contract (signed in 2007) pays me every six months, even if it's only $1.49 for the sale of a single book. I venture that many authors will have to wait seven years to collect less than $50 royalities (I would have to).

Thanks. Based on my royalties letter without a check, I guess my contract requires the 7 year wait. The net result is still untold hours of advertizing work with no pay to which I say no more.

If I had the money and PA's percentage of the cut, I "might" have gone to CPAC and made $10K a day for 2 days selling 10% of attendees. So it seems there is need for a low cost printing system for authors to produce their own books. Hot glue is available at WalMart and laser printing might be ok for the content but I'm stumped on how to produce a slick cover.

Chris P · Mar 9, 2011

Kirk Fraser said:
So it seems there is need for a low cost printing system for authors to produce their own books. Hot glue is available at WalMart and laser printing might be ok for the content but I'm stumped on how to produce a slick cover.

Have you asked in the Self-publishing forum here? The people there might be able to help you source a reasonably priced printer. Of course, you will need the pub rights back from PA before you could start self-pubbing your current book.

Kirk Fraser · Mar 9, 2011

Chris P said:
Have you asked in the Self-publishing forum here? The people there might be able to help you source a reasonably priced printer. Of course, you will need the pub rights back from PA before you could start self-pubbing your current book.

I got quite a good PM last time on self-publishing, but I just noticed this on the AW banner ad. http://www.instantpublisher.com/Price-Quote.aspx
the video indicates a per book price can be as low as under $2 a book. It might be worthwhile and easier than self-publishing for which I'd also have to buy a book trim cutter.

No more $ to PA - I've moved on. I'll change the book's content, name, and ISBN instead of sending them more money, or wait the 7 years, if I stay in writing. I'm thinking my time could be better spent on other things like inventing, software, or church. Either way, no PA.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 9, 2011

Self-publishing doesn't require self-printing. You're allowed to contract it out. Since the days of Henry Holt very few major publishers have run their own printing plants. They're a hassle you don't need, and you're unlikely to keep them running enough to make owning them cost-effective.

BenPanced · Mar 9, 2011

Kirk Fraser said:
No more $ to PA - I've moved on. I'll change the book's content, name, and ISBN instead of sending them more money, or wait the 7 years, if I stay in writing. I'm thinking my time could be better spent on other things like inventing, software, or church. Either way, no PA.

Wait it out and write another book along the way. If you attempt to self-pub your current book while it's still under contract with PA, they have every right to sue you for breach.

Unimportant · Mar 9, 2011

Just adding: there may be a difference between the number of copies purchased by readers in a given period, and the number of copies for which the publisher has been reimbursed by the bookseller and therefore pays the author royalties on. If a hundred people bought copies of my book in December, I wouldn't expect to see all one hundred of those copies reflected in my March royalty statement.

Kirk Fraser · Mar 10, 2011

Unimportant said:
Just adding: there may be a difference between the number of copies purchased by readers in a given period, and the number of copies for which the publisher has been reimbursed by the bookseller and therefore pays the author royalties on. If a hundred people bought copies of my book in December, I wouldn't expect to see all one hundred of those copies reflected in my March royalty statement.

That can only apply after I changed my "buy" page to link to Amazon.com since before that it was pointing to PA.

Looking at my PA expenses for tax purposes (I love Schedule C):
PA rush service (unnecessary I learned later) $49
PA lowPrice reduction (ad implied $10 but only $5 delivered) $113
PA 30 copies for author $203
-----------
Payments $365 / Total copies 38 = $9.60 each. Compared to under $2 each PA does robbery, definitely making its money on sales to the author and taking most of any other sale. In my case I was delivered 38 copies with a wrong cover so I returned one and got another 30 with the correct cover. Seemed like a miracle. So $365 / 67 = $5.44 each was less painful but PA's house still won.

Self printing can be more expensive per copy, plus labor, unless selling ebooks. So getting a cheaper per copy printer is the way to go for paper. Then the only thing PA provides is a cover using free art from the Internet, an ISBN, and a listing on Amazon.

JulieB · Mar 10, 2011

Kirk Fraser said:
That can only apply after I changed my "buy" page to link to Amazon.com since before that it was pointing to PA.

Check your contract. They may apply the 90-day period to ALL sales. What if someone buys directly from PA and then returns it to them?

Kirk Fraser · Mar 10, 2011

JulieB said:
Check your contract. They may apply the 90-day period to ALL sales. What if someone buys directly from PA and then returns it to them?

Hmm, last time people were accusing me of defending PA. Well now no defense can win me back. Weeks of advertizing for no pay is too much. Even ditch diggers get some pay.

Unimportant · Mar 11, 2011

Last time, we were stating the facts about PA's shoddy business methods. At that time, you appeared to believe that we were trying to mislead you for nefarious but unidentified reasons of our own.

We also gave advice about writing, editing, self-publishing, commercial publishing, and literary agents. At that time, you appeared to believe that we were trying to mislead you for nefarious but unidentified reasons of our own.

This time, we're pointing out the flaws in a plan to charge PA with breach of contract. You might want to consider why we are doing so. And, perhaps, consider that it is not that we are trying to mislead you for nefarious though unidentified reasons of our own.

There is an enormous amount of collective wisdom here at AW regarding strategies that are likely to succeed (or fail) when dealing with PA, based not only on members' knowledge of the publishing industry but also many years of working with countless disgruntled PA authors. AW members, some of whom were once PA authors themselves, have an enormous -- but not limitless -- amount of patience, kindness, forbearance, and willingness to offer advice and aid to PA authors.

It's called "paying it forward."

JulieB · Mar 11, 2011

Kirk Fraser said:
Hmm, last time people were accusing me of defending PA. Well now no defense can win me back. Weeks of advertizing for no pay is too much. Even ditch diggers get some pay.

I was simply trying to point out that it's possible there *might* be some other sales that are not accounted for yet. The next royalty period could be telling.

And yes, I do understand your frustration. I hope you can get your rights back and sell it yourself. I'm certain you can do better on your own.

Did you buy my book - Congressional Bible Study?

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