The AW Amazon Store
Buy Books by AWers!

 

Welcome to the AbsoluteWrite Water Cooler! Please read The Newbie Guide To Absolute Write

Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 323

Thread: How Real Publishing Works

  1. #51
    13th Triskaidekaphobe Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,868
    I've got to ask.

    What's a MFA?

  2. #52
    haz a shiny new book cover Christine N.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Where the Wild Things Are
    Posts
    7,705
    Master of Fine Arts
    Christine

    Young Adult Fantasy Author

    A CURSE OF ASH AND IRON: Coming Spring 2015 from Curiosity Quills Press

    "The Watchmaker's Ball" (short story), to be included in BEWARE THE LITTLE WHITE RABBIT (anthology), coming April 14 from Leap Books


    Represented by Jordy Albert of Booker Albert Literary

    I tweet

    Young Adult Authors You've Never Heard Of

  3. #53
    Around and About SuperModerator Birol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Where I hang my hat... when I can find my hat.
    Posts
    14,746
    Master of the Fine Arts

  4. #54

  5. #55
    haz a shiny new book cover Christine N.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Where the Wild Things Are
    Posts
    7,705
    either that, or something REALLY vulgar. think your mother and your behind.
    Christine

    Young Adult Fantasy Author

    A CURSE OF ASH AND IRON: Coming Spring 2015 from Curiosity Quills Press

    "The Watchmaker's Ball" (short story), to be included in BEWARE THE LITTLE WHITE RABBIT (anthology), coming April 14 from Leap Books


    Represented by Jordy Albert of Booker Albert Literary

    I tweet

    Young Adult Authors You've Never Heard Of

  6. #56
    13th Triskaidekaphobe Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,868
    I was thinking that I spent the day in Azeroth, surrounded by people with titles like Lord of All Creation and Supreme Master of Majick, and MFA still manages to be the most pretentious I've heard since waking up this morning.

  7. #57
    figuring it all out
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    84
    Why is it any more pretentious than PhD, MA, MS, BFA, BA, MBA, etc?

  8. #58
    haz a shiny new book cover Christine N.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Where the Wild Things Are
    Posts
    7,705
    Hey, me, I've got me a plain old... BS (both the degree and the other thing you're thinking - I'm a writer, after all )
    Christine

    Young Adult Fantasy Author

    A CURSE OF ASH AND IRON: Coming Spring 2015 from Curiosity Quills Press

    "The Watchmaker's Ball" (short story), to be included in BEWARE THE LITTLE WHITE RABBIT (anthology), coming April 14 from Leap Books


    Represented by Jordy Albert of Booker Albert Literary

    I tweet

    Young Adult Authors You've Never Heard Of

  9. #59
    practical experience, FTW
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by Greer
    I like that term, too. There certainly are a number of authors who are writing for the academic community -- but again, to go back to what James was saying, are they irrelevant? Many of the major shifts in story-telling over the past hundred years have been first developed by authors who,if they were writing now, might be labeled as such.
    I like the term academic fiction,too. But now you've made me curious: what are the major shifts in story-telling over the past century?

  10. #60
    practical experience, FTW roger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    172
    Sharon

    Quote Originally Posted by aruna
    right now I think I've hit the lowest point But hey, after that it goes up again!
    To the first part of that, I say, 'Sorry to hear that'; to the second, 'I'm sure it will!'

    It's strange isn't it, most unpublished writers think they just have to get published and that will be it. Whereas the truth is far more complex and painful. I wish you luck with your latest book. Was that the one you had in NOVEL II in writewords? I really enjoyed what I read.

    Would you still use a manuscript consultant, by the way? I think you said in one of the posts above that your first manuscript was referred to an agent by an independent editorial assessor, or I may be getting muddled up.



    Roger.
    Last edited by roger; 10-17-2005 at 02:23 AM.

  11. #61
    On a wing and a prayer aruna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    A Small Town in Germany
    Posts
    12,681
    Quote Originally Posted by roger
    Sharon

    To the first part of that, I say, 'Sorry to hear that'; to the second, 'I'm sure it will!'

    It's strange isn't it, most unpublished writers think they just have to get published and that will be it. Whereas the truth is far more complex and painful. I wish you luck with your latest book. Was that the one you had in NOVEL II in writewords? I really enjoyed what I read.
    yes, it's the same book. Thank you. And yes, the truth is far more complex than just getting published; that is just the first step...

    Would you still use a manuscript consultant, by the way? I think you said in one of the posts above that your first manuscript was referred to an agent by an independent editorial assessor, or I may be getting muddled up.


    Roger.
    No, this time I did not use a consultant. I felt I can revise on my own this time around, and only take proefssional advice from my editor - when I find one. I couldn't afford it anyway....
    OUT NOW!
    The Lost Daughter of India
    Amazon UK:

    Amazon US:

    Sons of Gods -- the Mahabharata

    Website
    Facebook


    Do you know what you are? You are a manuscript of a divine letter. You are a mirror reflecting a noble face. This universe is not outside of you. Look inside yourself; everything that you want, you are already that ...
    ~ Rumi

  12. #62
    Take off! Canada James's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Great White North, eh
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald
    Think of publishing as Coney Island. See all those people running around having fun? Those are the readers.
    The MFAs are all gathered in a circle in the parking lot. Each one is clutching his One Perfect Grain of Sand. They're showing their grains to each other, exclaiming about the color, the lustre, the size, the shape, of each grain.
    They're having fun, they aren't hurting anyone, but from the point of view of the guys playing volleyball, splashing in the surf, or trying to pick up chicks, they're irrelevant.

    Me, I'm a guy with an ice cream stand by the beach.
    I'm one of the guys playing volleyball picking up chicks.


    Canada James
    I have all the answers.
    I just don't know any of the questions...

  13. #63
    Take off! Canada James's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Great White North, eh
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by Greer
    Why is it any more pretentious than PhD, MA, MS, BFA, BA, MBA, etc?
    An Engineering friend had shirts made for his class that read, "Friends don't let friends take Arts."

    Canada James
    I have all the answers.
    I just don't know any of the questions...

  14. #64
    Watching Tiaga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Right behind you!
    Posts
    342
    IMHO This is one of the best Threads to come down the pipe in a long time.
    I've been sitting back waiting for the steam to build.I would like to see it started as a new Publishing entry.

    I like aruna's term "academic fiction" it is very different from say the literary fiction of a Margret Atwood or Yann Martel.
    I also believe Atwood, Martel write better than say a Tom Clancy. But I don't think all genre writers need write the same as Atwood to be a good story teller. In fact I prefer Clancy or Ludlum et al to an Atwood or Martel type of work. Both can be tremendously successful and I don't think either had an easier time on the road to publication.
    6' 6" from nose to tail, 183 lbs, 0 to 30 mph in 3 seconds...it's your move!

  15. #65
    Gone
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Greer
    I truly don't understand the vitriol against MFA programs or their writers.
    Much of it, I think, can be explained by the scorn with which many of those self-described literary writers regard genre writing, especially when they proudly declare that they have never read that crap because it's all crap and they don't read crap.

    Makes other kinds of writers twitchy after a while.

  16. #66
    figuring it all out
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    84
    I am surrounded by many of these "literary writers" -- many of them quite successful -- and I almost never hear that opinion. (In fact, I know several people with MFA's who are genre writers -- and several very successful genre writers who teach in MFA programs). Indeed, most "literary writers," myself included, feel we can learn a lot about things like plot from genre writers. Now, there is good genre writing and bad genre writing, as genre writers I'm certain will agree, just like there is good literary fiction and bad. Anyway, take a peek a the most recent Best American Short Stories collection, edited by Michael Chabon. Plenty of genre writing in there.

    Have you really heard, first-hand, writers of literary fiction make these statements (about genre writing being crap), or is this yet another stereotype? Because I know this is the stereotype. I suspect if you did hear these statements they were by frustrated, not very successful "literary writers." I've noticed they seem to be the ones the least gracious.

  17. #67
    Gone
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Greer
    Have you really heard, first-hand, writers of literary fiction make these statements (about genre writing being crap), or is this yet another stereotype? Because I know this is the stereotype. I suspect if you did hear these statements they were by frustrated, not very successful "literary writers." I've noticed they seem to be the ones the least gracious.
    I have heard them first-hand (in at least one instance, such a comment came from a professor, in response to a question about why there were no courses studying genre fiction), and I agree that they were from frustrated writers. That's why I indicated that these were self-identified literary writers. I suspect those who feel more secure in their choices, intelligence, and abilities don't worry so much about reading the "right" kinds of books.

  18. #68
    figuring it all out
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    84
    That's unfortunate. I can assure you this is not the dominant view, just as I know from interviews and conversations with successful genre writers that "literary fiction" is not in the main considered irrelevant. I actually took one genre writing (and one genre literature) course in graduate school and learned a great deal. Anyone interested in books and literature in general shouldn't find any kind of it irrelevant; the many ways stories can be told is testament to the power and potential of literature.

    I suppose there is this sort of division everywhere: Referencing Canada James comment earlier, I was a history major as an undergraduate, but took many math courses for my electives. By my last year I was the only humanities major in these classes, but I never told anybody, because it was too entertaining to hear the professor and a few other students make repeated jokes about people in the arts and humanities. I thought it was funny, but I could see how other humanities majors would see math or science majors as elitist if socially inept jerks.

  19. #69
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Far from the madding crowd
    Posts
    6,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Greer
    Have you really heard, first-hand, writers of literary fiction make these statements (about genre writing being crap), or is this yet another stereotype?
    I've heard such statements first-hand from some mainstream writers (I wouldn't call them literary writers), and also experienced the prejudice behind the statements through participation in an MFA-style creative writing course, in which the professor (an academic fiction writer) told me that if I wanted a serious writing career I'd have to drop the genre "stuff" and return to the real world.

    However, I think that these stereotypes are more prevalent among readers and reviewers than they are among writers.

    - Victoria

  20. #70
    The grad students did it NeuroFizz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Coastal North Carolina
    Posts
    9,494
    Unfortunately, during hard financial times, the academic world itself pits one area against another, primarly due to internal budget decisions. One reason math and science departments receive such disdain from humanities and arts, and triggers the perceived arrogance in the opposite direction, is the budget differentials, which sometimes extend to faculty salaries (higher in some of the sciences). The reason--it reflects the amount of grant overhead money the departments bring in to the university. It can be multi-millions in some science departments, and next to nothing in some of the humanities. What people don't recognize is that a good chunk of that overhead money brought in by the science departments is used to support artistic/creative activities in the other departments. In my opinion, these situations are worst in universities in which the second order administrative unit is a College of Arts and Sciences (which typically includes the humanities), instead of separate colleges for Arts and Humanities, and for the Sciences. The latter organization tends to head off some of this fund-based jealousy/arrogance, or at least elevates it to the level of College Deans.

    This system, complete with the kinds of hoops one has to jump through to gain employment and promotion (including tenure), may be a contributory source of the Ivy League mentality and the internal competitiveness that breeds interdisciplinary arrogance, and the kind of arrogance professors show towards the more commercial, non-academic sides of their creative disciplines. If you think the science faculty are bad, don't go near the Philosophy Department.

    With that said, there is no reason for a professor to use class time to slight other departments.

    As for "elitist if socially inept jerks" tag given science professors--I have seen some, but no more than I see in other departments, and in the general population outside of Academia.

    Is jealousy rampant in Academia? Personally, I suffer from an acute case of Physics Envy.
    Last edited by NeuroFizz; 10-17-2005 at 08:44 PM.

  21. #71
    cloud watching September skies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    under my September Skies in sunny California
    Posts
    2,874
    Thank you Jenna for telling us all about publishing. That was so informative. It's also a learning experience to read what everyone else adds. Thanks all.

  22. #72
    Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales Absolute Sage Susan Gable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,110
    Quote Originally Posted by victoriastrauss
    I've heard such statements first-hand from some mainstream writers (I wouldn't call them literary writers), and also experienced the prejudice behind the statements through participation in an MFA-style creative writing course, in which the professor (an academic fiction writer) told me that if I wanted a serious writing career I'd have to drop the genre "stuff" and return to the real world.

    - Victoria
    I've heard them, too. I know of a friend whose writing mentor, on finding she'd sold her first romance novel, told her that was great as long as she was content whoring for the masses.

    I've had people tell me that I'm "too good of a writer to write romance." (Gee, thanks, I think.)

    My multi-genre group had a huge blow-up a couple years back along the lit folks looking down on the genre folks lines. Yeah, that was a boatload of fun. Not.

    I think both sides can learn from the other. I really don't get the whole us-vs.-them attitude, but it's out there.

    Susan G.
    Susan Gable www.susangable.com
    As Good As His Word
    May 2011 - Harlequin Superromance
    The Family Plan - July 2010 Superromance


    Your online computer-fixer-upper:
    www.PCWebDoc.com
    Fixing computers via the internet!

  23. #73
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Far from the madding crowd
    Posts
    6,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Gable
    I've had people tell me that I'm "too good of a writer to write romance." (Gee, thanks, I think.)
    Oh yeah. I've gotten that too, and from people who ought to know better. Or the flip side--readers who are surprised to encounter metaphors and symbolism in a fantasy novel.

    - Victoria

  24. #74
    Gone
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,587
    Quote Originally Posted by victoriastrauss
    Or the flip side--readers who are surprised to encounter metaphors and symbolism in a fantasy novel.
    A few years ago, Shawna McCarthy ran an editorial in Realms of Fantasy centered around a letter she received from a young man that said he didn't understand why they had to read those boring books by Steinbeck and Shakespeare and all when the Dragonlance books were soooooooooo much better. Shawna's reply boiled down to, "You don't know what the hell you're talking about and it would be a damned good idea for you to pull your head out of your rump and learn something about literature." Just about that snarkily, too, bless her.

  25. #75
    Persisting AW Moderator Maryn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    The Old Country
    Posts
    39,176
    You gotta love a person whose vocabulary includes snarkily!

    Maryn, who does!
    Get to work. Success isn't built on the power of your dreams.


    Brick by Brick, a ménage à trois novel
    Taming the Wilde, FemDom spotted--and striped--in the wild
    Men in Love, anthology about--hey, you're already there, aren't you?
    Maryn Says, an irregular blog almost never about writing
    The Occasional Tweet

Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Custom Search