How Real Publishing Works

what kind of nut job sends bananas and coconuts? I know a guy who mailed someone a pack of sausages once, but that was for a whole other reason...

I get a fair number of questions from Australian and New Zealand authors about manuscript assessment services. A few years ago I wrote to an agent at the Australian Curtis Brown to ask his opinion of such services. He told me that he, and other agents he knows, rarely pay attention to assessments--first, because so many of the services don't employ qualified people, and second, because he prefers to make his own assessment of a manuscript, rather than rely on someone else's.

So the assessment services (if the staff are qualified to do what they do--it pays to check) may help writers improve their work preparatory to submitting, but having gotten an assessment probably won't impress an agent or editor (as many writers seem to hope).

- Victoria

overtired said:

what kind of nut job sends bananas and coconuts?

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Um, sometimes you feel like a nut and sometimes you don't? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

overtired said:

what kind of nut job sends bananas and coconuts?

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Someone who wants to monkey around?

I know a guy who mailed someone a pack of sausages once, but that was for a whole other reason...

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Oohhh! I know! a sausagefest calendar!

Oohhh! I know! a sausagefest calendar![/quote]


Unfortunately they were real sausages. Wrapped in plastic wrap and placed in an envelope. He didn't even send them fastpost. He did it because he's just a little bit mean... He once gave his girlfriend a frying pan and a six pack of eggs for Christmas. That's mean.

Question about editing..

I need help and have found an excellent editor through a referral. I know everyone says you don't have to do that before you get published but I really feel I will benefit from it. They did the first chapter for me for free and it was an eye opener as far as formatting and flow. Do you think I am just being a naive first time author? Let me stress that I am really bad with subject/verb agreement and things like that.

Someday you'll have to learn subject/verb agreement.

Why not now?

aruna said:

Jenna, great list but you left out one other major element:

Advances. The advance your publisher gives you is an advance on royalties. The amount you get represents the amount your publisher thinks they can make with your book, and is usually at least a few thousand dollars or pounds. Even if your book does not "earn out", you never have to repay the advance.
A publisher which only pays you one dollar advance is not taking a chance on you. It is telling you that it doesn't think your book can earn back more than a dollar.

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Hi there-

Not necessarily true. It all depends how the contract is written. A lot of publishers will pay out fair (not high) advances because an author can reap the rewards of their sales.

MojoJojo said:

Hi there-

Not necessarily true. It all depends how the contract is written. A lot of publishers will pay out fair (not high) advances because an author can reap the rewards of their sales.

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I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here.

James D. Macdonald said:

Someday you'll have to learn subject/verb agreement.

Why not now?

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This is true. I was once in the middle of a subject/verb disagreement, and it was not a pretty thing. As a writer, I find it much better to be a diplomat when putting a subject and verb in close proximity.

DecemberQuinn said:

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here.

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Quinny, I think Mojo means that the author can enjoy large royalty checks.

priceless1 said:

Quinny, I think Mojo means that the author can enjoy large royalty checks.

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Thanks! I thought that might be it.

I don't really agree with it, but at least now I understand it.

What about Children's Picture Book publishing?

Jenna~

i thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts about the steps in publishing. i am new here, and so glad i have found quite a wealth of information. i wrote a children's picture book last year, and being a newb in the industry, heard about a friend of a friend that got published with PA, so i sent them my manuscript. they sent me a rejection letter at the time because my book was not illustrated. they said they would only accept it illustrated. i put the book away to work on other projects.

now months and months later, i rec'd another email from them. they are offering to publish my book if i have illustrations, and also offered me their in-house illustrator for $499.

since finding this forum today, i am so glad to know the truth about PA. but now, i have so many questions regarding the publishing aspects of children's picture books:

1) illustrating or not illustrating before i find a publisher; i have a strong vision of what type of art will take place, i could not imagine giving up this control. i also have my own artist ready to go.

2) amount of pages...some mention a page minimum of 35. is this true?

3) to self-publish or not to self-publish...

4) more advice on writing queries and what they are exactly, step by step.

thank you for your help!

(:kathleen:) said:

since finding this forum today, i am so glad to know the truth about PA. but now, i have so many questions regarding the publishing aspects of children's picture books:

1) illustrating or not illustrating before i find a publisher; i have a strong vision of what type of art will take place, i could not imagine giving up this control. i also have my own artist ready to go.

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Hi, Kathleen, and welcome to AW! There is a wealth of information waiting at your fingertips here.

We have a wonderful children's writing forum here, and I'd advise you to check it out in addition to the background & bewares board here. Jenna has a great thread on this topic: Children's Writers: You Don't Hire the Artist

Unfortunately, unless you're a professional artist yourself, most publishers will not allow you to choose your illustrations; neither will most publishers allow the author to select his/her cover art, even for adult novels.

Here is the quote from the first post in Jenna's aforementioned thread:

JennaGlatzer said:

If you write picture books, you've probably thought at some point, "Boy, it would really impress the editor if I hired someone to illustrate this book. Then it'll look like a real book." But really, that's not true. The publisher wants to hire the artist.

They want to choose an artist whose style they like-- possibly someone they've worked with before, possibly someone who's won awards or has a great track record. They'll want to enter into a contract with the artist for the rights to the work, and give specific direction for page counts, style, colors, size, etc.

If you're a professional artist yourself and want to illustrate your own books, sure, submit it as a complete package-- but otherwise, don't hire someone or enlist your cousin or son (who's undoubtedly talented, but likely not what the publisher is looking for).

It will more than likely count as a strike *against* you to submit art with the writing. It brands you an amateur. Some publishers are more than happy to hear your suggestions once they're considering buying your book if you've come across an artist whose style you think fits the book. But before then, don't waste anyone's time or your money.

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I hope this helps you in some way.

~Julia

Sending $499 to PA (or to anyone else) violates Yog's Law.

Egem - Worthy Post

egem said:

I know I'm going to get a lot more attacks here, but this is the truth as I see it.

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I pulled out one sentence from your excellent post. I see you are displaying no detail under you name, I am guessing you have closed your account perhaps. I am a n00b, so have to guess much as I wander about.
I was instructed to come here and read this thread for the information contained within and I must say, all the posts are worthy up to and including 10, yours. I have yet to complete reading the thread.

Your sentence jumped off the page at me!
It was not the anticipated attacks, it was that you promised the TRUTH as you know it to be, something that can be very rare at times these days, especially when a heated topic is debated.
After I read the rest of your post, I was very impressed. I have no idea what a PA is past the Personal Assistant definition. I found your post lacking in the emotive resounding clash of cymbals that frequently accompanies "hot topics".

Thank you, that you may never know of this response does not lessen my sincerity, nor my desire to attribute the acclaim I believe you deserve for posting well, even tho you suspected a negative response from others, possibly many.

Good onya, where ever you may be and whatever you may be doing now!!!

Herman Munster said:

After I read the rest of your post, I was very impressed. I have no idea what a PA is past the Personal Assistant definition.

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In this context, PA stands for PublishAmerica, a hybrid vanity publisher.

DaveKuzminski said:

In this context, PA stands for PublishAmerica, a hybrid vanity publisher.

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Thank you kindly.
My n00b status means I need to ask dumb questions, I shall add this to my list of the "beware variety".

Okay, question!

I have an agent and I love him. He signed me, we worked on revisions for a week, and then he promptly sent my manuscript to six major pub houses per their request. I think my agent is a superstar and I don't want to bug him. That said, it's been twenty days (acutal days, not business days) since my manuscript was flung to New York. I haven't heard a freaking thing!

Will someone please tell me (on average) how long it takes an editor to send a rejection or an offer?

Seriously, I had no idea when I decided to try and get my novel published that I was essentially volunteering to undergo severe self-torture.

That said, it's been twenty days (actual days, not business days) since my manuscript was flung to New York. I haven't heard a freaking thing!

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Just twenty days? Around fifteen business days? Oh, my very dear friend.

Sit back. Start writing a new novel. Twenty days is nothing.

Sorry but ....what is PA?

Never mind...I just found out above!

In re: Advances not earning out.

A friend told me recently that his wife, an agented author with multiple books published received a contract for her next book that stipulated that the author would PAY BACK any amount of the advance not earned out.

I scoffed, but he swears it is true and that his wife's agent said there was nothing she could do about the contract clause. If the agent had wife sign the contract without removing that clause, then shame on her.

Is this something new going on that people should know about?

I don't think that's standard to be sure. And I don't think many commercial publishers actually have a clause like that, nevermind not being able to negotiate it out.

Marva said:

In re: Advances not earning out.

A friend told me recently that his wife, an agented author with multiple books published received a contract for her next book that stipulated that the author would PAY BACK any amount of the advance not earned out.

I scoffed, but he swears it is true and that his wife's agent said there was nothing she could do about the contract clause. If the agent had wife sign the contract without removing that clause, then shame on her.

Is this something new going on that people should know about?

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Seriously, I think your friend's wife needs to find a better agent. Any agent who can't protect their client from those kinds of clauses (pay back and basket accounting as examples) isn't worth having.

Just speaking from experience here. I chose NOT have an agent then one who hid the KY and told me to bend over.