Would you buy it?

angeliz2k · Feb 16, 2011

Hello, everyone. I've been lurking a bit lately and haven't been posting, but I have been writing and researching.

So, here is the situation, and I was wondering if, as discerning readers, you would cry foul.

It's 1852, Baltimore, MD. The MC's father has gotten into huge gambling debt and made a bad business deal. He screwed up financially and doesn't have much hope of recovering. He comes up with a solution: he has a life insurance policy, so he offs himself. He does this by shooting himself in the head. The company pays out just about enough to cover the debts.

I know insurance companies existed at this time.

I also know they wouldn't pay out for a suicide.

But might the family have been able to pretend it was an accident or a (random, unknown) intruder? Or, worse, one of their slaves? I know forensic science wasn't great in the 1850's, but would they be able to know the gunshot wound was self-inflicted, and if so how certain would they be?

Belle_91 · Feb 16, 2011

For me what strikes me as odd is the whole killing himself for money. I think someone would-hopefully-think of a better solution then killing themselves just to pay off some debts. However, I think you can work with this.

This plot makes me think of George Bailey's situation in IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE. He thought about killing himself for money AND because he thought he was a failure as a father, husband, busniuess man, he was going to jail...I think maybe if the character was feeling all of this emotion too, then he might off himself.

I could see a family definatly trying to cover up the fact that it was suicide, espically in the 1850s. Not just for the money, but say for maybe religious reasons. I don't know what religion your MCs are, but I know in the Catholic Church, if you are an adult and you commit suicide, you cannot have a funeral in the Catholic Church...at least that's what my theology teacher told us...sometimes I think they lied to us.

Anyway, I think it's plausible that the family tried to cover it up. I'm pretty certain in that time period, if someone comitted suicide it looked bad on the whole family. Wouldn't other families have thought the rest of them were "tainted" or there was "bad blood". Again, that could be another motive besides money.

All in all though...yeah it sounds plausible. However, I'm not that familiar with life insurance policies in that time period or today, or how Victorians viewed suicide.

job · Feb 16, 2011

Sherlock Holmes was written in 1887. That's thirty years after your period, but might give you some idea of the state of forensic science in the era.

If I were trying to kill myself and make it look like an accident, I wouldn't shoot myself in the head. (Even with all my gun cleaning apparatus sitting on the table beside me.) I'd find some reason to be up in a high place and fall off.

Or I'd pocket a wad of bills, sink my sailboat off Cape Charles, row a small boat into Norfolk and catch the train for San Francisco as John Smith.
Or something.

angeliz2k · Feb 16, 2011

Belle_91 said:
For me what strikes me as odd is the whole killing himself for money. I think someone would-hopefully-think of a better solution then killing themselves just to pay off some debts. However, I think you can work with this.

This plot makes me think of George Bailey's situation in IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE. He thought about killing himself for money AND because he thought he was a failure as a father, husband, busniuess man, he was going to jail...I think maybe if the character was feeling all of this emotion too, then he might off himself.

I could see a family definatly trying to cover up the fact that it was suicide, espically in the 1850s. Not just for the money, but say for maybe religious reasons. I don't know what religion your MCs are, but I know in the Catholic Church, if you are an adult and you commit suicide, you cannot have a funeral in the Catholic Church...at least that's what my theology teacher told us...sometimes I think they lied to us.

Anyway, I think it's plausible that the family tried to cover it up. I'm pretty certain in that time period, if someone comitted suicide it looked bad on the whole family. Wouldn't other families have thought the rest of them were "tainted" or there was "bad blood". Again, that could be another motive besides money.

All in all though...yeah it sounds plausible. However, I'm not that familiar with life insurance policies in that time period or today, or how Victorians viewed suicide.

Ha, it is a little bit like It's a Wonderful Life. I hadn't thought of that.

Yes, they would definitely cover it up, because technically the property of a person who committed suicide was supposed to be forfeit. They aren't Catholic, though it is a Catholic area.

job said:
Sherlock Holmes was written in 1887. That's thirty years after your period, but might give you some idea of the state of forensic science in the era.

If I were trying to kill myself and make it look like an accident, I wouldn't shoot myself in the head. (Even with all my gun cleaning apparatus sitting on the table beside me.) I'd find some reason to be up in a high place and fall off.

Or I'd pocket a wad of bills, sink my sailboat off Cape Charles, row a small boat into Norfolk and catch the train for San Francisco as John Smith.
Or something.

Granted, and that's partially why I am asking here. I wanted my MC to come across his dead body--rather gruesome--for the impact. BUT the more sensible idea is to just have him overdose on laudanum. It would be practically undetectable. If they could detect it, it would be put down as accidental.

As for faking it . . . well, this man is suicidal. He has failed all his life. He lost control of his father's mill to a business partner. He's had to borrow repeatedly from his father-in-law, who just berated him and cut him off. He suffers from bouts of melancholia, which worries the MC, his daughter. So he isn't just killing himself for the money. It's an added bonus, if you will.

pfunk · Feb 17, 2011

What happens after he kills himself and his family gets the money? Is that the end of the story?

If the story continues for some time after the suicide, as a reader I'd be less concerned with the accuracy of 19th century insurance policies, since there should be much more riveting action going on (family infighting over the money, someone threatening to expose the suicide, someone from the past who reads about his death and comes calling, etc).

And 1850s Baltimore? Some of Poe's detective fiction might provide insight into ideas surroundig forensics at the time.

oldhousejunkie · Feb 17, 2011

I think it would easier for the man to shoot himself...and have the slave blamed. Depending on the man's character, he could be nice and pay the slave to run off, so he looked guilty; or he could just leave it to chance that the family points the finger.

I think finding and paying someone to murder him would be an interesting plot twist too.

Overdosing on laudanaum would be too easy to detect as suicide, IMO. It was a pretty easy way to off yourself back then, and I doubt people would consider it as an accident.

Good luck! Sounds like a very interesting story.

angeliz2k · Feb 17, 2011

pfunk it isn't the end of the story, it's the beginning of the unraveling of her life that brings her to her brother's plantation in coastal Georgia. There will be a lot of action going on, some of which I will not dwell on, since the POV is pretty tightly on the teenaged MC. Oh, Poe! I do love Poe.

oldhousejunkie I think blaming a slave might be the way to go, or something similar.

Thank you!

Itobias · Feb 17, 2011

Sorry. MC sounds like a loser and I would have no interest in it..

angeliz2k · Feb 17, 2011

Itobias said:
Sorry. MC sounds like a loser and I would have no interest in it..

Dear itobias,

I've said almost nothing about the MC in this thread. You have nothing to base your assessment of loserdom on, ~~unless it's your own experience of that state of being (ie, loserdom~~)[was that too rude?].

If you mean the father, then, yes, he has screwed up royally, but his daughter still loves him. Shocking, I know. She hates the mistakes he made, but sometimes you have to love someone for what's loveable about them and try to forgive the rest.

Most Sincerely,
Liz

ryannj5 · Feb 17, 2011

Liz, I think your story sounds interesting and you have a unique premise. I love family sagas and all the messiness that goes along with it. You have really only told us about the inciting incident, but assuming I liked what I learned about your MC and I wanted to root for her to sort through all this, then- yes I would buy.

Belle_91 · Feb 18, 2011

Itobias said:
Sorry. MC sounds like a loser and I would have no interest in it..

@ Itobais- I'm sorry but that was just beyond rude, and very childish. If you're going to act like you're 12, go on Neopets.

She hasn't said anything about her MC's personality, just that her father committed suicide, something that is beyond her control.

BySharonNelson · Feb 21, 2011

The story sounds intriguing. Forensics in the 1850's was shabby at best and most police departments didn't have the budget for any kind of equipment for testing. In most cases I would think that his suicide could easily be brushed off as an accident, especially if the daughter told everyone that it was. If the town was small to medium sized they police would likely know the family and there would be gossip but they wouldn't go to great lengths to prove it a suicide.
Sounds like a good storyline, keep us updated.

DeleyanLee · Feb 21, 2011

Remember that most police investigations at that time relying pretty much completely on eyewitness accounts. No eyewitnesses, no investigation, no case, case closed. Forensics as we think of them pretty much didn't exist. They didn't even know about the uniqueness of fingerprints in the 1850's, but I believe phrenology was coming into vogue as a criminal investigation tool.

The problem with shooting yourself in the head is that it's pretty obvious unless someone moves the gun. Better to go cut down a largest tree so it falls on you. Even though you did it yourself, it would still be ruled accidental. Those kinds of accidents were highly common in that day and age.

Would you buy it?

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

Belle_91

With her nose stuck in a book

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

pfunk

oldhousejunkie

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

Itobias

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

ryannj5

Belle_91

With her nose stuck in a book

BySharonNelson

(Insert something whitty here)

DeleyanLee

Writing Anarchist