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Thread: [Display site] Bookner.com

  1. #1
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Thumbs down [Display site] Bookner.com

    I stumbled across this today: http://www.bookner.com/

    It purports to be a site which "rates" your precious manuscript, then displays it for agents (who pay for access) to discover you. Not surprisingly, this has garnered much amusement from agents and authors alike. There's even an Anti-Bookner site: http://antibookner.blogspot.com/

    Incredible.
    ICAO
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    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
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  2. #2
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    It's funny to me that the online manuscript display site concept, which was touted as the Great New Writers' Hope in the late 1990's and was pretty much a total bust, is now being revived as if it were an entirely new and revolutionary idea. In the past year or so I've run across at least a dozen display site startups. They seem to be completely unaware of the many similar efforts that came--and failed--before them.

    - Victoria

  3. #3
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    Here are a few of the display sites I've encountered lately:

    Monkeyclap.com
    2BEntertainment
    WritersConnect
    The Next Big Writer
    Zirdland
    Bookpitch

    - Victoria

  4. #4
    annoyed and annoying roach's Avatar
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    I was waiting for someone to post something about Bookner here. Perhaps Mr. Gonzales can come on and defend his revolutionary site as he did over at Miss Snark's blog. As Victoria posted above, this is a concept that just won't float, ever. If it was a workable idea you'd see at least two or three big sites that had been around for years. Instead you see a dozen sites a year crop up and then sink into oblivion a year later.
    Eggplant Literary Productions,
    A small electronic speculative fiction publisher.

  5. #5
    13th Triskaidekaphobe Richard's Avatar
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    How cynical. Next you'll be suggesting that Lori Prokop's fibbing about making you a Book Millionaire...

  6. #6
    The late, the great XThe NavigatorX mdin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    How cynical. Next you'll be suggesting that Lori Prokop's fibbing about making you a Book Millionaire...
    Hey, I forgot about that. Shouldn't that be on TV by now?

    My Art

  7. #7
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriastrauss
    It's funny to me that the online manuscript display site concept, which was touted as the Great New Writers' Hope in the late 1990's and was pretty much a total bust...
    Heck with the late nineties. The first display site I ran into was in the early nineties, on GEnie.

    It didn't work either.

    Here's the deal with display sites: Editors don't bother with them.

    Here's why some writers use them: Since their stories aren't really submitted anywhere, they aren't rejected anywhere.

  8. #8
    Empirical Storm Trooper MadScientistMatt's Avatar
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    Booknerguy's arguements with Miss Snark have been pretty entertaining. It seems that he doesn't quite get that if he wants to sell books to agents, annoying them is a bad idea.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientistMatt
    Booknerguy's arguements with Miss Snark have been pretty entertaining. It seems that he doesn't quite get that if he wants to sell books to agents, annoying them is a bad idea.
    It also seems he doesn't get that it's really, really obvious he doesn't know anything about publishing.

    Someday, if he works very hard and manages to learn something, he may understand why he should be embarrassed by his rants.

  10. #10
    annoyed and annoying roach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aconite
    It also seems he doesn't get that it's really, really obvious he doesn't know anything about publishing.

    Someday, if he works very hard and manages to learn something, he may understand why he should be embarrassed by his rants.
    I got the impression from his comments that he was proud of his ignorance of the publishing industry. He seems to feel that being on the outside gives him some special insight into the flaws of the system. For him it seems that the rest of us poor schmucks are just too close, or too invested, into the system to see the genius of his "solution."

    Of course in this case the emperor really is wearing clothes despite Mr. Gonzalez's cries to the contrary.
    Eggplant Literary Productions,
    A small electronic speculative fiction publisher.

  11. #11
    jgonzales
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    I'm not going to engage those who have already made up their minds in a meaningless argument. The comments here are far too asinine to be dignified with the term "criticism," anyway.

    I would, however, like to state for the record, for the benefit of others who might stumble across this thread, that Bookner is not a display site; Bookner is a rating site. Thank you.

  12. #12
    13th Triskaidekaphobe Richard's Avatar
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    "Where Literary Agents and Publishers Find Bestsellers"

    It's a display site. Game over.

  13. #13
    annoyed and annoying roach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzales
    The comments here are far too asinine to be dignified with the term "criticism," anyway.
    You misspelled "insightful".
    Last edited by roach; 10-24-2005 at 05:44 AM. Reason: ironic typo on my part
    Eggplant Literary Productions,
    A small electronic speculative fiction publisher.

  14. #14
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Wink Duh

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoPaux
    It purports to be a site which "rates" your precious manuscript, then displays it for agents (who pay for access) to discover you.
    Agents...paying to discover me. The same agents who want IRC's or SASE's and 'don't waste my valuable time with phone calls' are going to fork over some money for an arbitrary "rating" system?

    And I don't mean to sound critical of how agents work - their time is valuable and they're inundated with piles of unsolicited crap, as well as some gems, day in and day out.

    But the thought of agents paying for this remarkable service?

    I was going to be more diplomatic, but then I saw that jgonzales wasn't going to try to enlighten the masses about this wonderful breakthrough in promotion, so it seems some esteemed members have hit it pretty close to the mark.

  15. #15
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    The sort of agents who find writers at display sites aren't the sort of agents you want to talk to.

  16. #16
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    I have a couple of serious questions for Mr. Gonzales, if he's willing to answer them.

    - How does Bookner go about publicizing itself to agents and editors, and ensuring that enough will visit the site to make participating worth the authors' while?

    - Does Bookner screen the agents and editors who participate, to make sure they're part of reputable agencies and publishers?

    - Victoria

  17. #17
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin peyton67's Avatar
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    I thought that I read (in literature from the Maui Writer's Conference) that they offer a similar service... a place where you can pay to post your manuscript for agents to read.

    Am I off base?

  18. #18
    figuring it all out Rhade's Avatar
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    Who told the bookner guy to use orange as the main color for his site? Ewww, my eyes hurt!

  19. #19
    Gone
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    Quote Originally Posted by peyton67
    I thought that I read (in literature from the Maui Writer's Conference) that they offer a similar service... a place where you can pay to post your manuscript for agents to read.

    Am I off base?
    Talk to any agent, and they'll tell you that they have so many manuscripts sitting on their desks (and overflowing onto chairs and the floor and any other horizontal surface) that they can barely keep up. That being the case, why would agents go looking for more slush to read online? Especially if they have to pay for it?
    Winner of Uncle Jim's Whoo Hoo Super Writer Award and Nomad's Most Use of Vowels in a Screen Name Award as well as Maryn's Only Person on AW Whose Name Anagrams to "I, Octane," "Act I (One)" and "Nice tao" Award in addition to batgirl's Culpeper Award for Botanically Erudite Screen Name plus awatkins' AW's Most Creative Srounger [sic] of Rep Points Award not to mention azbikergirl's Arizona Most Awarded Writer Award and also Dawno's Most Interesting Signature Line Award

  20. #20
    I write novels
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    Quote Originally Posted by peyton67
    I thought that I read (in literature from the Maui Writer's Conference) that they offer a similar service... a place where you can pay to post your manuscript for agents to read. Am I off base?
    Not at all. Bookner says he will charge the agents and editors instead of the writers, but it's still a display site. That alone would doom him to failure, but his attitude only makes things worse.

  21. #21
    practical experience, FTW LloydBrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzales
    I'm not going to engage those who have already made up their minds in a meaningless argument. The comments here are far too asinine to be dignified with the term "criticism," anyway.

    I would, however, like to state for the record, for the benefit of others who might stumble across this thread, that Bookner is not a display site; Bookner is a rating site. Thank you.
    So, what books that have been featured on your site can we find on shelves at our local bookstores?
    Lloyd Brown
    www.lloydwrites.com


  22. #22
    Gone
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    Another agent's critique of Bookner: Torgo's post on his blog Honest Critiques.
    Winner of Uncle Jim's Whoo Hoo Super Writer Award and Nomad's Most Use of Vowels in a Screen Name Award as well as Maryn's Only Person on AW Whose Name Anagrams to "I, Octane," "Act I (One)" and "Nice tao" Award in addition to batgirl's Culpeper Award for Botanically Erudite Screen Name plus awatkins' AW's Most Creative Srounger [sic] of Rep Points Award not to mention azbikergirl's Arizona Most Awarded Writer Award and also Dawno's Most Interesting Signature Line Award

  23. #23
    Hagiographically Advantaged AW Moderator HapiSofi's Avatar
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    The editorial grapevine is remarkably silent on the subject of Bookner and its mind-bogglingly stupendous wonderfulness ect ect ect.

    Four reasons Bookner is doomed:

    1. An author whose work is good enough to rise through a system like Bookner's is good enough to get noticed by an agent.

    2. If there's one thing agents and editors are good at spotting, it's saleable books. There may be a few professionals who only think they're good at it (and those tend to get weeded out fast), but the fact remains that even the small number of bad ones think they're good at judging manuscripts. Obviously, neither sort is going to think it's a good idea to cede their judgement to a random bunch of wanna-be authors who are playing "HOT or NOT" with other people's manuscripts.

    3. Bookner is only as good as their ratings. If they start out with a ragtag bunch of wanna-be authors who are justly unpublishable, and a bunch of manuscripts to match, nobody's going to be interested in the site's opinions or inventory. If agents and editors don't think the ore at Bookner is worth mining, there won't be a lot of sales originating at the site, more substantial authors won't be attracted to it, and Bookner's clientele will continue to be ragtag wanna-be authors with no insight and less talent.

    4. Mr. Gonzalez, the proprietor of Bookner, is an idiot. According to his business plan, his projected paying customers are agents and editors; yet he complacently admits that he's a complete ignoramus about the publishing industry. That'll impress 'em. On top of that, many of the statements in his screeds on the Bookner website are not only false, but are grossly offensive to agents and editors.

    Why should we go anywhere near this loser?
    Winner of the Best Drycleaner on the Block Award.

  24. #24
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Uncle Jim, your post of 7/1 is lost. What news?
    ICAO
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    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  25. #25
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    The news is that Bookner.com is down hard. The name is up for sale.

    (The Anti-Bookner site is also neglected, and now consists of nothing but comment spam. I do wish that when people lost interest in their sites that they'd at least turn off their guestbooks and comment features.)

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