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Thread: Treble Heart Books

  1. #1
    cape8y9v
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    Treble Heart Books

    For all people thinking about submitting to Treble Heart Books, my advice after 2 years, is JUST DON'T!

    This publisher is listed on the Predators and Editors list of publishers. WHY?

  2. #2
    Holding out for a Superhero... Sheryl Nantus's Avatar
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    uh... care to be a bit more specific?

    I'm sure that P&E is open to editing the entry, but you've got to give a bit more of a reason than just this...

  3. #3
    Preditors & Editors Requiescat In Pace DaveKuzminski's Avatar
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    Why?

    Because, good or bad, writers need to know who's out there. If you know of a reason why it shouldn't be recommended, send us some documentation regarding that. We can't warn other writers about problems if we never hear of those nor see any documentation.
    When it comes to PA, the royalty check and the reality check arrive in the same envelope.

    Remember to be kind to writers who step in PA. They really don't know how bad it smells.

    The difference between PA and WLA? None. Both have the stench of dead and dying books emanating from their doorways.


  4. #4
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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  5. #5
    New kid, be gentle!
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    is it just me or is there an unbelievable amount of wordage dedicated to 'money' and very little dedicated to dealing with the publisher themselves. I didn't see anything in there about editing (if any would even be done) nor did I see anything about how many copies of contract should be sent, what to do in the event a contract is lost in the mail, etc.

    I've signed two contracts now with Changeling Press, an ebook publisher I would recomment to ANYONE interested in writing erotica/romantica in a short story form. They use the EPIC model contract which is very author friendly. Personally, the first part of Treble Hearts contract would have had me running for the hills. Right of first refusal AND they're want ALL rights, including movie? No way!

  6. #6
    Working In A Coal Mine... Sonarbabe's Avatar
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    I submitted a full manuscript to Treble Hearts about a year ago. They asked for 90 days exclusive, which I was fine with, but I never heard from them again. I emailed a follow-up after the 90 days and they replied saying they had computer glitches and would get back to me as soon as they could. Never heard a thing from them.
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  7. #7
    Ooo! Shiny new cover! Absolute Sage Cathy C's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I have to agree that the contract is not very well worded. While it appears to be written in clear language, in "layman's terms" at first blush, there are actually several conflicting paragraphs that could bind the author to more than s/he thinks. For anyone interested in contacting this publisher, PLEASE make certain to have an entertainment lawyer review the terms and make appropriate amendments.
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  8. #8
    figuring it all out
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    On the fence

    I personally know an author with two books published by Treble Heart. The main problem is that there is absolutley zero assistance with marketing her product. One book has even won a prestigious Romance Writers award--it didn't count as even a blip on their radar.

    Another downside--they're not affiliated with Amazon.com in any way and absolutely refuse to have anything to do with them. Therefore, the only way people can find her books is to go to Treble Heart's web site, or her author's site. They have not set up any markets, or made copies available to local independent book sellers (let alone B&N or Borders), or even arranged for publicity in the state where she resides. She has been forced to hire a PR person on her own dime.

    It seems to me that THB is primarily a vanity-house that doesn't charge up-front fees; more POD than legit publisher.

    Hope this helps

  9. #9
    annoyed and annoying roach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the debster
    Another downside--they're not affiliated with Amazon.com in any way and absolutely refuse to have anything to do with them. Therefore, the only way people can find her books is to go to Treble Heart's web site, or her author's site. They have not set up any markets, or made copies available to local independent book sellers (let alone B&N or Borders), or even arranged for publicity in the state where she resides. She has been forced to hire a PR person on her own dime.
    While not listing their titles with Amazon.com can cost sales, the bigger problem is not having distribution to brick-and-mortar bookstores. The majority of the reading public get their books from bookstores. There might be some people who turn to Amazon.com or other online venues to find new books and writers, but most only go online when they are looking for something specific. How will the publisher get the attention of readers if the publisher doesn't place books where the readers are?
    Eggplant Literary Productions,
    A small electronic speculative fiction publisher.

  10. #10
    ~writes for Him~ Robin Bayne's Avatar
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    Treble Heart Books is my current publisher, so I'd like to clarify a few things.

    Yes, you are mostly on your own for marketing. Lee Emory, the owner/publisher, is right up-front with her authors about that. When she first bought MountainView Publishing (the inspirational division, which has my books) she ran some ads and distributed promo items, but has not done that lately. If you arrange a book signing or event, Lee will make sure your books arrive on time.

    She won't give Amazon or B&N the huge discount they demand so she does not list with them. I personally have submitted my books to these sites and though they are shown as "special order," readers can find my books there.

    The last time I checked the P&E writer's site, THB had a very good recommendation. I will have to look at that again.

    All of my books with THB have gone through thorough editing and proofing, and then I get to review the galleys before printing. Mistakes do happen, but no more so than with NY pubs.

    THB is in NO way a vanity publisher. I was formerly a reader for them and rejected many manuscripts. Authors do not have to buy any of their books, pay any fees, and do not supply their family and friends names to receive advertising materials. I would recommend this publisher to anyone.

    However, they are a "small press" and in recommending them, I'd also warn the writer about needing to do their own marketing. And on the down side, I will admit to delays within the past year due to personal circumstances of the owner, which have now (hopefully) improved.

    If anyone has questions about THB, feel free to PM or e-mail me.

  11. #11
    ~writes for Him~ Robin Bayne's Avatar
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    Okay, I did just double check the listing at P&E. It only lists them as a publisher, and says the company name was submitted by Robin Bayne. That's me.

    There are no problems reported with THB. However, the company is no longer a "POD" pub so that is outdated. The company orders short print runs, usually in 30-book runs.

  12. #12
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspiewriter
    However, the company is no longer a "POD" pub so that is outdated. The company orders short print runs, usually in 30-book runs.
    Wouldn't that still have to be done via POD, though?

    - Victoria

  13. #13
    ~writes for Him~ Robin Bayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriastrauss
    Wouldn't that still have to be done via POD, though?

    - Victoria
    POD can run that many, yes, but they can also run one copy at a time. THB uses a printer that won't do one at a time, so it isn't "print on demand."

  14. #14
    Empirical Storm Trooper MadScientistMatt's Avatar
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    Inspiewriter, have they managed to secure national distribution in any bookstores? It sounds like your book is pretty hard to find.

  15. #15
    I Heart Mac Absolute Sage Lauri B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspiewriter
    POD can run that many, yes, but they can also run one copy at a time. THB uses a printer that won't do one at a time, so it isn't "print on demand."
    That's splitting hairs. Thirty copies of a book is NOT a standard print run by any stretch of the imagination.

  16. #16
    Gone
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspiewriter
    POD can run that many, yes, but they can also run one copy at a time. THB uses a printer that won't do one at a time, so it isn't "print on demand."
    Sure it is. It's just "thirty on demand at one time."

  17. #17
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Are we talkin' POD in the inventoried-only-by-the-author sense, or POD in the digital printing sense? Since setup time for an offset press is more than its run-time for 30 books, I'm guessing we're talkin' a DocuTech machine, or some such. Not cheap, either way.
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  18. #18
    American Aquarium Drinker pepperlandgirl's Avatar
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    Wait, let me see if I understand. Treble Heart:

    1) Doesn't have a distributer for book stores.
    2) Doesn't have listings on the major Internet stores
    3) Points 1 and 2 are probably true because they don't offer bookstores discounts (returnability issues as well?)
    4) Don't do anything to market, leaving it all on the author (Hmmm, now why does that send red-flags?)
    5) Probably doesn't have standard print runs because they *can't* sell more than 30 at a time because they don't have the required distribution and publicity.

    I agree. It looks from here like a vanity press masquerading as a "traditional publisher." I mean, we haven't heard any horror stories of inescapable contracts or non-existant royalities, but they do have at least five things in common with everybody's favorite "traditional publisher."

  19. #19
    ~writes for Him~ Robin Bayne's Avatar
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    I still don't see how you get "vanity" publisher out of that, but as I said above, the marketing is mostly up to the author.

    I haven't had any problems with my books being available. If you aren't comfortable with what I said above, I'd recommend you not submit your work there.

  20. #20
    storm central stormie's Avatar
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    The following is on the Writer's Market web site for Sept. :


    Listing Removed:
    Treble Heart Books listing removed; closed to submissions until further notice.



    Don't know why the listing is removed, but it is.

  21. #21
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepperlandgirl
    I agree. It looks from here like a vanity press masquerading as a "traditional publisher."
    I think that's a stretch. Treble Heart looks to me like one of the dozens of little Internet-based indie publishing companies, run on a shoestring by people who don't necessarily have any previous publishing experience and thus can't afford, or possibly aren't aware of, the basics of book marketing and distribution. Publishers like this are often very well-intentioned, but their lack of expertise and cash means minimal sales and exposure for their authors (and sometimes pretty bad contracts, too).

    - Victoria

  22. #22
    Player of the Letters Alphabeter's Avatar
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    Too bad they can't be given a special marking for
    "well-intentioned non-scammer but lacking in proper publisher behavior".
    Joy

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    At first you do it because you like it.
    Then you find yourself doing it for a few close friends and people you like.
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  23. #23
    Learning to read more, post less
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    Publisher

    Any publisher that wants all rights, inlcuding movie rights, is a bad pubisher. So is one that won't let books be sold thorugh online bookstores. Talk about being penny wise and pound foolish.

  24. #24
    The late, the great XThe NavigatorX mdin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphabeter
    Too bad they can't be given a special marking for
    "well-intentioned non-scammer but lacking in proper publisher behavior".
    WINSBLIPPB. I Like the sound of that.

    It seems most small Internet publishers are Winsblippbs these days.

    My Art

  25. #25
    ~writes for Him~ Robin Bayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesaritchie
    Any publisher that wants all rights, inlcuding movie rights, is a bad pubisher. So is one that won't let books be sold thorugh online bookstores. Talk about being penny wise and pound foolish.
    Gosh, unless they've changed the contract I didn't give all rights. In fact, I have also submitted several of my trade paperbacks to audio publishers. But I haven't even looked at one of their contracts in 2-3 years.

    I do know they signed on with wholesaler Baker & Taylor this year, which is a step in the right direction.

    Alphabeter, I liked your slogan too. THB may not be the best in distribution but they certainly aren't a scam operation.

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