Obama wants to freeze federal salaries

ColoradoGuy · Nov 29, 2010

Here. So. Multi-gazillionaires blow up the economy and get rewarded with tax cuts (and the deficit will skyrocket); park rangers at Yellowstone and FDA meat inspectors in Iowa get punished (with a negligible benefit to the deficit). Brilliant!

Perks · Nov 29, 2010

Oh that's going to go over just great.

Williebee · Nov 29, 2010

erm. ahem.

It would not affect members of Congress or their staffs, defense contractors, postal workers or federal court judges and workers.

Perks · Nov 29, 2010

Well, it said everyone in the Executive Branch. What all does that cover? My civics gets fuzzy at a certain layer.

Wayne K · Nov 29, 2010

Edit: Willie beat me to it

ColoradoGuy · Nov 29, 2010

Williebee said:
erm. ahem.

You seem surprised.

bip · Nov 29, 2010

Perks said:
Well, it said everyone in the Executive Branch. What all does that cover? My civics gets fuzzy at a certain layer.

It's basically what we think of as "the bureaucracy", which has a negative connotation to a lot of people (but not to a poli sci person such as myself).

Here's a link with a list of Executive Branch entities.

Perks · Nov 29, 2010

Hmmm. (And thank you.)

Well, I guess he couldn't propose to freeze the Senators and Representatives with any hope at all of it passing, but this feels like a gesture poised just like Wile E. Coyote on a cliff's edge.

robeiae · Nov 29, 2010

ColoradoGuy said:
Here. So. Multi-gazillionaires blow up the economy and get rewarded with tax cuts (and the deficit will skyrocket); park rangers at Yellowstone and FDA meat inspectors in Iowa get punished (with a negligible benefit to the deficit). Brilliant!

Making more than 250 grand a year makes one a multi-gazillionaire? Good to know.

ColoradoGuy · Nov 29, 2010

robeiae said:
Making more than 250 grand a year makes one a multi-gazillionaire? Good to know.

Lame deflection of my point, lamer quip.

Williebee · Nov 29, 2010

You seem surprised.

Nah, just got no eyelids.

jennontheisland · Nov 29, 2010

And if they all got raises instead everyone would be jumping up and down freaking out about how the feds are going to afford bigger salaries and the poor economy and why do they get more when everyone else is laid off and broke and ...

At least they've still got their government health care.

robeiae · Nov 29, 2010

ColoradoGuy said:
Lame deflection of my point, lamer quip.

You said it: "Multi-gazillionaires blow up the economy and get rewarded with tax cuts (and the deficit will skyrocket); park rangers at Yellowstone and FDA meat inspectors in Iowa get punished (with a negligible benefit to the deficit). Brilliant!"

You want to offer tired, populist, class warfare tripe, I can certainly note it and respond. And that seems to very much be a part of your point: the "rich" are getting a tax cut, right?

Hey, I don't disgree with the silliness of the proposed freeze on federal salaries. And it's an interesting gambit, given that likely increased health insurance costs *cough* for many of the civilian workers means a net loss in take home pay, even without inflation.

robeiae · Nov 29, 2010

jennontheisland said:
At least they've still got their government health care.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704584804575644630815574018.html

Workers were scheduled to receive a 1.4% pay raise in 2011. With an average increase of 7.2% on health insurance premiums, many civilian workers would actually see their take-home pay fall. The freeze would not apply to Congress, which sets salaries for itself and its employees.

Chris P · Nov 29, 2010

It is a drop in the bucket, but it's one of the few places where Obama has direct control over salary.

For civilian federal employees, there are two pay schedules: the general schedule (GS) and the executive schedule (ES). People hired are almost always GS employees, and appointees are often ES. The GS goes from GS-1 to GS-15 (there are supergrades, but there aren't many of them), and five levels of ES. Each grade on the GS is divided into 10 steps.

There are three ways a fed employee can increase his/her salary. First is cost of living increases, which come to about 1 or 2% annually and usually take effect at the beginning of each calendar year. Another way is to have a within-grade step increase. Usually these are calendar based: the progression from step 1 to 2 to 3 takes place in sequential years, then 4 to 5 to 6 takes place at one step every two years, and 7 to 8 to 9 to 10 takes place one step every three years. Sometimes an employee is granted a step increase in recognition of superior achievements. The third way is to get a grade increase, such as from GS-12 to GS-13. This is almost always performance based, and the frequency depends on how your position is evaluated. For me, I went from a 12 to a 13 in three years, I was up for evaluation 4 years later (but was held in grade, as I expected) and I will be reviewed again after another 4 years. An employee in one grade can get a different job at the next higher grade if he or she meets certain requirements.

My question, which none of the articles I read answered and I couldn't find the text of the executive order online, is which of these is affected? I suspect Obama could only get away with freezing cost of living increases. Taking away performance incentives seems too politically dangerous.

jennontheisland · Nov 29, 2010

robeiae said:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704584804575644630815574018.html

At least they've still got their government health care.

kuwisdelu · Nov 29, 2010

robeiae said:
You said it: "Multi-gazillionaires blow up the economy and get rewarded with tax cuts (and the deficit will skyrocket); park rangers at Yellowstone and FDA meat inspectors in Iowa get punished (with a negligible benefit to the deficit). Brilliant!"

Well those with salaries >$250k certainly includes a number of multi-gazillionaires, so he's technically correct.

But then, gazillion isn't a real number, so he's wrong there, I suppose.

Don · Nov 29, 2010

I can't seem to find the article, but I saw one earlier today that calculated what a tiny fraction of a percent of the federal deficit this freeze represents. It's almost like he picked the tiniest actual impact for the amount of angst it would generate.

The financial impact is quite insignificant overall; similar to earmarks, IIRC.

blacbird · Nov 29, 2010

robeiae said:
Making more than 250 grand a year makes one a multi-gazillionaire? Good to know.

Making a LOT more than 250 gs does, for some. I don't know of anybody making more than $250,000 who is suffering financially. But I do know that the standard economic doctrine of the Republican Party is that they are, that the wealthy are so heavily put upon that they really don't have enough, and it's all because of the poor, who have so goddamn much and so many privileges.

Dommo · Nov 29, 2010

This better not impact the step increases, or this fucks me hard(I'm currently a step 2 in my paygrade). If it's the annual raise, then it hurts, but not that badly(1% raise is pretty small in the first place).

What pisses me off, is that this won't impact the congressman assholes who are driving this whole thing. Just us regular GS folks, who have been the whipping boys everytime the economy tanks. When the economy is good, no one wants to work in the government because the pay sucks, when the economy is bad, OMG GUBMINT OVERPAID!!!

shelleyo · Nov 29, 2010

Williebee said:
Nah, just got no eyelids.

I'd spent all Monday without a good laugh, until this.

Thank you.

Shelley

blacbird · Nov 30, 2010

Dommo said:
What pisses me off, is that this won't impact the congressman assholes who are driving this whole thing.

This. If Obama wants to sell this gesture, he needs to get Congressional approval for a similar freeze on their compensation. Yes, I know that's a token, but so is the proposed Fed freeze, really. It won't affect the economy or the deficit in any material way. But if Obama is really savvy, he can now toss this in the lap of the new Republican leadership of Congress and publicly hold them accountable.

Alpha Echo · Nov 30, 2010

Chris P said:
My question, which none of the articles I read answered and I couldn't find the text of the executive order online, is which of these is affected? I suspect Obama could only get away with freezing cost of living increases. Taking away performance incentives seems too politically dangerous.

I'm curious about this also, being an affected Fed. myself.

Dommo said:
This better not impact the step increases, or this fucks me hard(I'm currently a step 2 in my paygrade). If it's the annual raise, then it hurts, but not that badly(1% raise is pretty small in the first place).

What pisses me off, is that this won't impact the congressman assholes who are driving this whole thing. Just us regular GS folks, who have been the whipping boys everytime the economy tanks. When the economy is good, no one wants to work in the government because the pay sucks, when the economy is bad, OMG GUBMINT OVERPAID!!!

I agree with you. I'm not looking forward to the health premiums going up and not getting much of a raise. I don't make much anyway, and I work my ass off.

What REALLY irritates me is this -

I work my ass off every day. I actually work hard, and unfortunately, there's really no where for me to go. I'm stuck.

Not only do I work hard, but while another woman took a detail at HQ in DC, I took over all her work. Piles of shit she let pile up for MONTHS. I mean...now I'm being bombarded with emails that show the last correspondence on this crap was back in June, and she just let it sit there. We're talking pay issues, HR issues, important stuff, and now I'm rushing around trying to fix all the loose ends.

And you know what? She's making 90k a year.

Why don't we, the government, fire people like her and combine my job with hers. They wouldn't have to pay me 90k. I'd be happy with 50k. Think of how much money we'd save if we wiped out useless workers like her? And trust me, there are more than anyone cares to admit. If we raked through HQ alone, we'd probably cut the number of employees in half. Some of these guys literally don't have anything to do. Sometimes I don't have anything to do, but I guarantee I could combine the 2 positions. So could a lot of others. We could combine positions and fire people that don't do their fucking work.

Then, we wouldn't have this stupid fucking 2-year pay freeze.

Yes, I'm pissed.

robeiae · Nov 30, 2010

Chris P said:
It is a drop in the bucket, but it's one of the few places where Obama has direct control over salary.

For civilian federal employees, there are two pay schedules: the general schedule (GS) and the executive schedule (ES). People hired are almost always GS employees, and appointees are often ES. The GS goes from GS-1 to GS-15 (there are supergrades, but there aren't many of them), and five levels of ES. Each grade on the GS is divided into 10 steps.

There are three ways a fed employee can increase his/her salary. First is cost of living increases, which come to about 1 or 2% annually and usually take effect at the beginning of each calendar year. Another way is to have a within-grade step increase. Usually these are calendar based: the progression from step 1 to 2 to 3 takes place in sequential years, then 4 to 5 to 6 takes place at one step every two years, and 7 to 8 to 9 to 10 takes place one step every three years. Sometimes an employee is granted a step increase in recognition of superior achievements. The third way is to get a grade increase, such as from GS-12 to GS-13. This is almost always performance based, and the frequency depends on how your position is evaluated. For me, I went from a 12 to a 13 in three years, I was up for evaluation 4 years later (but was held in grade, as I expected) and I will be reviewed again after another 4 years. An employee in one grade can get a different job at the next higher grade if he or she meets certain requirements.

My question, which none of the articles I read answered and I couldn't find the text of the executive order online, is which of these is affected? I suspect Obama could only get away with freezing cost of living increases. Taking away performance incentives seems too politically dangerous.

My understanding is that this freeze would affect cost of living increases only.

robeiae · Nov 30, 2010

kuwisdelu said:
Well those with salaries >$250k certainly includes a number of multi-gazillionaires, so he's technically correct.

But then, gazillion isn't a real number, so he's wrong there, I suppose.

Technically correct? No, since all of them didn't "blow up" the economy (seriously, how can we blame Stephen King and Tom Brady for the economy?) and they're not getting "rewarded" with a tax cut, regardless.

Obama wants to freeze federal salaries

I've seen worse.

delicate #!&@*#! flower

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.

delicate #!&@*#! flower

I've seen worse.

has a dog with shifty eyes

delicate #!&@*#! flower

Touch and go

I've seen worse.

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.

the world is at my command

Touch and go

Touch and go

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred

the world is at my command

Revolutionize the World

All Living is Local

On Mac's double secret probation.

Just another face in a red jumpsuit

I should be writing.

Touch and go

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