- Joined
- Nov 5, 2006
- Messages
- 17,873
- Reaction score
- 4,664
- Location
- dunking doughnuts at Dunkin' Donuts
Besides, Oprah's on her final season. She's booked through and there's no way of scoring any tickets.
Rising from the Ashes - Another Battle Against PA
- Thread starter narcolepticgi
- Start date
Good news...and bad news.
As stated before I've always been trained to Lead,, Follow or Get out of the Way. My efforts for nearly a year now haave been shared and I will share this one last bit of information and then stop my regular visits here. That's the bad news.
The good news is this e-mail address which the lady that called from the home office in Washington D.C. gave me to share with all of you authors:
[email protected].
They want anyone who still has the "Red Cross e-mail solicitations" to forward them to this address. They have started an investigation from just my inquiry.
I'm use to being a loner, being a lifelong Narcoleptic hardened me and forced me to survive by doing things by myself. A good friend once told me, "procrastination is death on an installment plan". we can always do something tomorrow, I just prefer to do it today.
All of the postings are interesting and my website saved two individuals from the "blackhole". I'll drop in occasionally and give an update. You are welcome to send e-mails from the forum e-mail button.
RISING FROM THE ASHES has gone through its final edit and I plan to put my e-store on line so I can get some Christmas traffic. Don the contract is next on my electronic list. Virginia yours went in the mail today. My package to the Kentucky AG is next on my snail mail list.
As stated before I've always been trained to Lead,, Follow or Get out of the Way. My efforts for nearly a year now haave been shared and I will share this one last bit of information and then stop my regular visits here. That's the bad news.
The good news is this e-mail address which the lady that called from the home office in Washington D.C. gave me to share with all of you authors:
[email protected].
They want anyone who still has the "Red Cross e-mail solicitations" to forward them to this address. They have started an investigation from just my inquiry.
I'm use to being a loner, being a lifelong Narcoleptic hardened me and forced me to survive by doing things by myself. A good friend once told me, "procrastination is death on an installment plan". we can always do something tomorrow, I just prefer to do it today.
All of the postings are interesting and my website saved two individuals from the "blackhole". I'll drop in occasionally and give an update. You are welcome to send e-mails from the forum e-mail button.
RISING FROM THE ASHES has gone through its final edit and I plan to put my e-store on line so I can get some Christmas traffic. Don the contract is next on my electronic list. Virginia yours went in the mail today. My package to the Kentucky AG is next on my snail mail list.
And just imagine all the things going on in her life that are like this one. We have no idea the number of companies, people, etc. that try to use celebrities. Oprah, no doubt, has a staff to deal with these and, much as I hate to admit it, PA is probably a tiny drop in the bucket compared to much of the stuff they deal with.
Also, not sure you'd actually be able to approach her with the bundles of emails. Or that she'd actually read them. People are probably handing her photo albums, scrapebooks, books they like, etc. You have to figure it mostly gets tossed just for practical reasons.
This is on our minds way more than it is on her mind. We come here everyday, maybe a couple times a week, and follow a thread. Just think about everything that must be jammed into her mind right now. Not to be unkind, but I'm not sure she would really be able to take the time to listen.
Last I heard Oprah say it - about 5 years ago and probably the most recent I've watched - she had a staff of 300 to handle everything for her. I doubt that included the ones who do the technical stuff of putting the show on. This is to wade through what has to be an unbelievably massive amount of daily material and determine what suits her holiness before it's even presented to her for consideration. Oprah may come across as very pro-author, especially the first-timers, but I don't believe PA authors would even make the most infinitesimal blip on her radar, no matter the number. Oprah may exude a certain air of wide-eyed naivete, but it's carefully cultivated. She's a savvy street fighter and each time she's gotten sucker punched, and there have been more than a few, she learns. That's the difference between her and her multi-billion dollar empire and the rest of us: she knows what appeals to her vast audience. Wish I could say otherwise, and I did want to believe there was some hope, but I've had a few days to ruminate on the subject and what I know has taken precedence over what I would hope. But...
Just because Oprah is closing her show doesn't mean she's going away. She will re-emerge in several new and diverse incarnations that will spread her and her empire over an even wider area. So there may be hope after all, just in a different way than we might have desired. I truly believe in that old saw, "give a man enough rope and he will hang himself" - or "herself" as in the case of one female we are all aware of.
Back like a bad penny
The problem we have folks is that a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL AUTHOR carries no weight with anyone.
I'm a professional "think tank" but ideas are worthless unless someone gets involved, stops complaining and acts. If you all truly want to get Oprah's attention then we should form a committee, pay for a ticket to one of her shows and hand carry a bundle of these e-mails to her personally.
While I applaud and greatly admire your tenacity and leadership, as you've stated, one author can't go it alone.
Have you thought about contacting some of PA's 40,000 plus authors with your ideas? Are you still a part of PA's boards or mailing lists so it wouldn't look like you were spamming?
You've obviously researched other paths and have followed them, how about that one?
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2006
- Messages
- 5,363
- Reaction score
- 1,761
It's not the done thing to contact PA victims, so we will not be doing that.
Contacting even a fraction of those 40K people requires more time than most of us can spare, and I doubt any of them would thank us for our concern. Most would take it as an invasion of their privacy by a bunch of insane buttinskis and tell us to go to Hades.
Hard as it is to fathom, there are a number of their authors who are perfectly happy. We may be career writers, but they are not. Let them have their delusion, because maybe that's ALL they have in life.
Sometimes one wakes out of the PA coma, so let's be here for them with coffee and support.
I know we all want to stop PA and save people from themselves, but a little perspective, folks.
Contacting even a fraction of those 40K people requires more time than most of us can spare, and I doubt any of them would thank us for our concern. Most would take it as an invasion of their privacy by a bunch of insane buttinskis and tell us to go to Hades.
Hard as it is to fathom, there are a number of their authors who are perfectly happy. We may be career writers, but they are not. Let them have their delusion, because maybe that's ALL they have in life.
Sometimes one wakes out of the PA coma, so let's be here for them with coffee and support.
I know we all want to stop PA and save people from themselves, but a little perspective, folks.
Sorry all, that was a my bad.
I just didn't have the time or the energy to go all the way back to this post. (A cut down version.)
I should know better than to post when I'm tired off my butt.
I just didn't have the time or the energy to go all the way back to this post. (A cut down version.)
I should know better than to post when I'm tired off my butt.
I read so much here about doing this and doing that; my website was up for over 8 months and I had 11 members when I took it down. Actions speak louder than words.
If 25 trapped authors were to put together a package like I have ready to mail, or participated in a post card campaign to Oprah or one of the other media giants then perhaps a human interest story would unfold.
When one pebble is thrown into the pool of calmness the ripples eventually fade away from the center, and disappear; the pebble has lost its effect and it's energy was wasted.
When a hand full are thrown in, the message becomes clear and can not be easily ignored. Ripples cris-cross each other and become a massive signature on the surface of the pool.
I received an e-mail announcing that they have no intention of renewing my contract. I was glad to be successful in at least that part of my endeavor.
I have shared everything here and received only a slight amount of support (thank you Don, tj,merrihat,and Dave) .
Everyone of the WHO's is shouting except the one who is busy making copies of his complaint to Horton. Enough of the shouting; especially if you don't have a vested interest. Individuals chatting about this and that in these forums without a vested interest only make actions like my own look superficial.
Group: when several individuals come together and each works toward their own goals.
Team; when several individuals come together and work toward a common goal.
I've participated in enough groups; what I'm looking for is to join a team.
I'm not saying that this forum is not full of useful information and has in fact saved at least two authors from the PA black hole in the publishing universe.
So my question at this point in time is "how many of you have bothered to forward those Haiti, your book will be sent to our troops in Iraq, you book will be donated to the Barbara Bush foundation, or the White House e-mail promotions to those individuals responsible for those particular charities?
My little pebble is tossed every time I receive one of those shameful e-mails. Come on team, it's time to toss our pebbles all at one time and be heard.
By-the-by has anyone pursued the answer as to who won the trip to London, or who bought the seat at the book fair? I can guess...NO! I'll do that when I get off my soap box.
Trust me when I say, I would like nothing better than taking down the giant. But all we can do is warn others and try to do our best to succeed despite PA. It isn't productive to work with a chip on your shoulder. I know in the end the people behind the greed will find a very shallow victory off the backs of those that put money in their pockets. Capo died of syphilis (sp). One of the many chauffer’s he held was organized prostitution. Again dying of this disease isn't easy and he deserved the suffering. So we reap what we sow. Again not an easy pill to swallow but I rather live life with a clean slate then to have all the hate inside me eating away.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
- Messages
- 11,052
- Reaction score
- 2,642
And honestly, if we can try to keep people from going with PA and expose them for what they are, that'll put them out of business eventually anyway. At the very least, it saves a few people from getting burned.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2005
- Messages
- 5,011
- Reaction score
- 697
- Location
- Sacramento area, CA
- Website
- www.umbachconsulting.com
I've been reading that sentiment here for five and a half years as PA's practices have been relentlessly and explicitly exposed, during which time PA has added tens of thousands of authors.
--Ken
Last edited:
I'm starting to agree with ResearchGuy. As much as I'd like to believe people would eventually start to see the cracks that are quite evidently showing in PA, they still get enough authors to keep them afloat until they figure out another, easier way to make money.
If people can continue to fall for Nigerian scams, I can believe people will continue to fall for PublishAmerica.
If people can continue to fall for Nigerian scams, I can believe people will continue to fall for PublishAmerica.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2005
- Messages
- 5,011
- Reaction score
- 697
- Location
- Sacramento area, CA
- Website
- www.umbachconsulting.com
Don't get me wrong. The effort to expose PA and other scams and bad choices is worthwhile, and I believe it DOES steer a non-trivial number of people in better directions (or at least helps them understand their choices). But it is futile to expect results in the form of scams disappearing. Likewise, we can contribute to local food closets or to international relief organizations, but not eliminate hunger and poverty. That you can't win 'em all does not mean you should not try to win some of 'em.
--Ken
--Ken
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2005
- Messages
- 1,100
- Reaction score
- 151
- Location
- Bath, Pennsylvania
- Website
- oddgoose.blogspot.com
I was one who was diverted from PA because of AW.
And I think you are selling ourselves short. I think the decrease in new releases and all the money grab tactics are proof that AW and other sites are doing their jobs.
IT's GREAT TO BE AWAKE!
Hey folks...
Reading the past posts since my visit, so I thought I'd drop a line or two just for giggles.
For the newbies, visit Amazon and read the reviews on Willems book, you'll love them.
Secondly, I did in fact go into the PA Gallery and contact 5 authors, all of whom (except one) sent replies stating their dis-satisfaction with their PA experiences and moved on to publish else where. The one (shown as a man in the photo on the main Gallery page) is actually a woman and had nothing but daisies and roses for PA. Although they have tried PA refuses to remove the photos and website addresses.
Last, I've written a rejection letter to my Contract Release received Sept 10th. I'm just wondering if it's legal to stop printing my book just because I'm having words with them. I say that anyone reading this forum and has not signed with PA should go through that contract and remove every line item thats states "at the Publishers discretion" and every line item that pertains to any publication other than the hard bound and soft bound manuscripts. Then and only then will you even be near a conventional Traditional contract. Get rid of all that Maryland court crap while you're at it.
I have now gone through my contract one line at a time and it is so full of disinformation and double speak that I'm over whelmed by being foolish enough to say, "well my books a good book and I don't have to worry about them not promoting it". WRONG
The thing is 8 pages long for heavens sake. Any half idiot, with 50,000 manuscripts on hand could set up a kindle site for next to nothing and sell the crap out of these books. They could sell Cd's mp-3, cassets. I don't believe these people have any business sense what so ever.
I wish I'd win the POWERBALL! I'd buy these pathetic e-mail hoaxters out and make my billions!
As for those discouraged writers out there. Be brave. Put up your own e-store and self publish via the internet (not at lulu or iuniverse...). www.webs. is free! I read in a recent copy of Writers Digest that a lot of agents surf the internet looking for authors who are self publishing and have proven a small market for their books. You just might get lucky. The worst thing that can happen is that your hit counter stays on "zero". Not internet savy? can't build your own website! WRONG! Webs is very user friendly and the keywords will bring them to you. You can go to the banner folks and sell banners, add hotlinks to other sites and get pennies for every hit. In the meantime...write, write, write!!!
Time to get down now. I'm getting ready to buy 10 ISBN numbers from Bowkers. See you at my site soon I hope. Drop an AW hint and I'll gladly put a link to your site for you. We're in this together, for the long haul. Lets give PA the "what for" and leave them crying in their soup.
Hey folks...Reading the past posts since my visit, so I thought I'd drop a line or two just for giggles.
For the newbies, visit Amazon and read the reviews on Willems book, you'll love them.
Secondly, I did in fact go into the PA Gallery and contact 5 authors, all of whom (except one) sent replies stating their dis-satisfaction with their PA experiences and moved on to publish else where. The one (shown as a man in the photo on the main Gallery page) is actually a woman and had nothing but daisies and roses for PA. Although they have tried PA refuses to remove the photos and website addresses.
Last, I've written a rejection letter to my Contract Release received Sept 10th. I'm just wondering if it's legal to stop printing my book just because I'm having words with them. I say that anyone reading this forum and has not signed with PA should go through that contract and remove every line item thats states "at the Publishers discretion" and every line item that pertains to any publication other than the hard bound and soft bound manuscripts. Then and only then will you even be near a conventional Traditional contract. Get rid of all that Maryland court crap while you're at it.
I have now gone through my contract one line at a time and it is so full of disinformation and double speak that I'm over whelmed by being foolish enough to say, "well my books a good book and I don't have to worry about them not promoting it". WRONG
The thing is 8 pages long for heavens sake. Any half idiot, with 50,000 manuscripts on hand could set up a kindle site for next to nothing and sell the crap out of these books. They could sell Cd's mp-3, cassets. I don't believe these people have any business sense what so ever.
I wish I'd win the POWERBALL! I'd buy these pathetic e-mail hoaxters out and make my billions!
As for those discouraged writers out there. Be brave. Put up your own e-store and self publish via the internet (not at lulu or iuniverse...). www.webs. is free! I read in a recent copy of Writers Digest that a lot of agents surf the internet looking for authors who are self publishing and have proven a small market for their books. You just might get lucky. The worst thing that can happen is that your hit counter stays on "zero". Not internet savy? can't build your own website! WRONG! Webs is very user friendly and the keywords will bring them to you. You can go to the banner folks and sell banners, add hotlinks to other sites and get pennies for every hit. In the meantime...write, write, write!!!
Time to get down now. I'm getting ready to buy 10 ISBN numbers from Bowkers. See you at my site soon I hope. Drop an AW hint and I'll gladly put a link to your site for you. We're in this together, for the long haul. Lets give PA the "what for" and leave them crying in their soup.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2006
- Messages
- 8,142
- Reaction score
- 2,669
- Location
- In cahoots with the other boo-birds
- Website
- www.staciakane.com
Writers Digest is lying. That doesn't happen.
The only agents who do that are scamsters. Legitimate agents don't have to go looking for slush; they already get plenty.
If you want an agent, why not query them directly rather than going into self-publishing in the hopes that you might "get lucky"?
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2006
- Messages
- 5,363
- Reaction score
- 1,761
What she said.
Writers Digest is a BIG liar, and they have enough vanity ads to cause anyone to question their credibility.
My agent is too busy selling the proposals she's got in hand. She and her colleagues don't have the time to waste trolling display sites or looking at self- and vanity-pub books.
While many are jumping on the self-publishing train, which has unlimited open seating, there's no steam in the locomotive. You have to get out and push.
It's better than PA, but still not a pro credit.
Writers Digest is a BIG liar, and they have enough vanity ads to cause anyone to question their credibility.
My agent is too busy selling the proposals she's got in hand. She and her colleagues don't have the time to waste trolling display sites or looking at self- and vanity-pub books.
While many are jumping on the self-publishing train, which has unlimited open seating, there's no steam in the locomotive. You have to get out and push.
It's better than PA, but still not a pro credit.
Uh, no. It doesn't cost that much to get a domain name and hosting. If design is an issue, most hosting services offer templates. Most of these places also offer plug-in shopping cart software. All very simple to set up, really. If you're doing this yourself, it's a business.
What Stacia Kane said.
Hits Do Not Equal Sales. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Most of your hits will be from bots wanting to leave spam on your blog or guestbook. Don't mean to burst your bubble, but that's the way it works. This is true whether you are hosted at webs.com or have your own domain.
You can write a good book and publish it yourself. Just don't mistake getting your book "out there" for success. As I said above, this is a business, and you have to approach it like that. Sure, it's a business on a budget, but that means you need to spend time figuring out how to get the most bang for your limited bucks.
Please take the time to visit the self-publishing area of these forums and get educated before you move forward. I'm not trying to discourage you. I AM suggesting you slow down, do your homework, and approach this with a plan.
(Just a note that this is another personal saga I split from the NEPAT to keep it from getting lost. Carry on.)
My foot in my mouth...
My book, and any other book by any publisher, will not quailfy for sales at B&N "brick and mortar" stores. Why? because the Bookland EAN bar code does not show the price off the book. Why? Because PA changes the price every other week, at present (before they declared they would no longer prrint my book because of contract conflicts) it is listed at $29.95.
I visited the B&N site and coies out several parts including the "Becoming a Vendor of Record" application.
My contract states that I will receive XX% royalties on the ffirst 22000 copies. Sorry Writer, but I had expectations of selling 2000 copies, thats only 40 per state. I sold 2 copies in England so I guess that makes me an International author also. I asked my friend who sits on the local county Board of Directors and he told me they have never received a "hard copy" list of new releases from Publish America.
Part of the original profile specifically asked for local libraries, so I listed 5.
"AT the Publishers discretion" hooey! It should read "if, after the author purchases an undetermined number of copies at a deep discount, the Publisher will at its discretion".
Sorry, to those PROFESSIONAL failures here at the water cooler. I'd rather venture out on my own. I've just bound my first copy and thoroughly enjoyed the labor it took. I'll copyright, buy an ISBN#, promote and sell my book at the local flea market, thank you very much. As for an agent. Well, not to PO any one, they can grovel if my book becomes a sucess. If not then nothing ventured nothing gained and I can only blame my failure on myself. I like my odds!!
I guess I shouldn't contact my friend whho owns his own company in California about gaming rights. Since I'm not a renound author with credentials which seem not to help anyof you, I'll just slink back into my workshop and go back to day dreaming!!NOT!!
This has been fun folks, For the above PA wallflys, have at it!!
Oh, by the way...how many of you forwarded those Red Cross e-mails to them?? EXACTALY my point. A lot of hot air and whinners here and I said this once or twice before I'm out of here. Don, Dave you'll have to write me, you have the address.
When I close this message I will unscribe, I don't neeed a lot of "put downs" and PA complaints that are a never ending thread and has abcolutely accomplished "notta".
Narcolepticgi, over and out.
My book, and any other book by any publisher, will not quailfy for sales at B&N "brick and mortar" stores. Why? because the Bookland EAN bar code does not show the price off the book. Why? Because PA changes the price every other week, at present (before they declared they would no longer prrint my book because of contract conflicts) it is listed at $29.95.I visited the B&N site and coies out several parts including the "Becoming a Vendor of Record" application.
My contract states that I will receive XX% royalties on the ffirst 22000 copies. Sorry Writer, but I had expectations of selling 2000 copies, thats only 40 per state. I sold 2 copies in England so I guess that makes me an International author also. I asked my friend who sits on the local county Board of Directors and he told me they have never received a "hard copy" list of new releases from Publish America.
Part of the original profile specifically asked for local libraries, so I listed 5.
"AT the Publishers discretion" hooey! It should read "if, after the author purchases an undetermined number of copies at a deep discount, the Publisher will at its discretion".
Sorry, to those PROFESSIONAL failures here at the water cooler. I'd rather venture out on my own. I've just bound my first copy and thoroughly enjoyed the labor it took. I'll copyright, buy an ISBN#, promote and sell my book at the local flea market, thank you very much. As for an agent. Well, not to PO any one, they can grovel if my book becomes a sucess. If not then nothing ventured nothing gained and I can only blame my failure on myself. I like my odds!!
I guess I shouldn't contact my friend whho owns his own company in California about gaming rights. Since I'm not a renound author with credentials which seem not to help anyof you, I'll just slink back into my workshop and go back to day dreaming!!NOT!!
This has been fun folks, For the above PA wallflys, have at it!!
Oh, by the way...how many of you forwarded those Red Cross e-mails to them?? EXACTALY my point. A lot of hot air and whinners here and I said this once or twice before I'm out of here. Don, Dave you'll have to write me, you have the address.
When I close this message I will unscribe, I don't neeed a lot of "put downs" and PA complaints that are a never ending thread and has abcolutely accomplished "notta".
Narcolepticgi, over and out.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2006
- Messages
- 5,363
- Reaction score
- 1,761
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2005
- Messages
- 5,011
- Reaction score
- 697
- Location
- Sacramento area, CA
- Website
- www.umbachconsulting.com
