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Thread: Old Line Publishing (Craig Schenning)

  1. #1
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Old Line Publishing (Craig Schenning)

    I am new to the publishing world and could really use some advice!

    I have queried over 100 agents (45 rejections) with one reviewing the manuscript (London Independent Books) but have not heard anything for a few weeks. I submitted my manuscript to Old Line Publishing and received an e-mail that I had passed their review board but that I needed to pay for professional editing (using their editors would cost me $600) before they would publish it in a traditional manner. They said that all other costs will be covered by the publisher.

    Does anyone know anything about this publishing house? A friend of mine is voicing concerns that this seems to be a POD publisher. But they told me that my book would be published in a traditional manner, which suggests books in the stores to me!

  2. #2
    the world is at my command jennontheisland's Avatar
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    I don't know anything about the house, never heard of them. But I would suggest that any publisher who thinks you should pay them to edit your work shouldn't even be on your list of possible publishers.

    POD or not, I'd tell them to kiss my ass (in those very words) if they asked me for cash.
    You are more than welcome to take anything I say personally, whether it was intended that way or not.

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  3. #3
    Shakespearean Fool DreamWeaver's Avatar
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    No commercial publisher charges for editing. I think you should worry.

    ETA: jennontheisland beat me to it!

    EATA: If this is them http://www.oldlinepublishingllc.com/ there are red flags all over that site, not the smallest of which is, it's aimed at authors, not readers.
    Last edited by DreamWeaver; 09-24-2010 at 12:44 AM.
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  4. #4
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    That's sort of what I am thinking. ***sigh***

    I guess I just let me excitement get the better of me!

    Thanks!

  5. #5
    Girl Detective Stacia Kane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genejock72 View Post
    I am new to the publishing world and could really use some advice!


    Does anyone know anything about this publishing house? A friend of mine is voicing concerns that this seems to be a POD publisher. But they told me that my book would be published in a traditional manner, which suggests books in the stores to me!

    Welcome to AW, Genejock!


    Just as something to look out for, in publishing the term "traditional publisher/ing" is meaningless, and a publisher which uses it to describe themselves is generally a publisher to avoid, IMO; they're either clueless or up to no good. Publishing like you're thinking of--books in stores--is called commercial publishing. Traditional publishing is a term invented by a printing house called PublishAmerica, who are one of the largest scams in the business.

    And a good way to check and see about those "books in stores," is not to take the publisher's word or implication for it, but visit a bookstore and see if their books are on the shelves. Ask a bookseller about it; they can look the publisher up in their computer and see if it's a house they even will order from.

    How did you hear about this publisher? Did you read one or several of their books and enjoy them, or did you find them on a list of publishers and just submit? Don't be embarrassed or anything if it's the latter; we were all new once. But in general it's best not to submit to publishers you haven't heard of and/or whose books you haven't read. Research is important.

    Meanwhile, perhaps you'd like to submit your query and an excerpt from the first chapter of your work for critique in our Share Your Work forum? Finding an agent and from there a commercial publisher is a lot of hard work, and we can help you get there.

    Again, welcome to the forum!
    Last edited by Stacia Kane; 09-24-2010 at 01:53 AM.
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  6. #6
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Thanks for the warm welcome Stacia! Their name came up in First Writer and they looked like they published books that fit mine so I went for it. Most of my agents came from Writers Market!

    I just need to learn patience! I let myself get excited about the prospect of seeing my book in print and finding out this other information was a let down. BUT better to find out before signing agreements!

    And thanks for the advice about the Share Your work forum! I will post for sure!

    I have an agent with London Independent Books that asked for 10,000 word based on my query so hopefully that leads to representation. The rejections I have gotten from other agents have actually been very nice and encouraging so I just have to learn to be patient!

  7. #7
    Tired and Disillusioned Momento Mori's Avatar
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    I feel a flog coming on ...

    Old Line Publishing Website:
    The traditional publishing method is a great no-cost option for authors.
    Not only is it no cost, traditional (by which I mean, commercial) publishing pays the author in advance. Unfortunately, Old Line's 'Traditional' publishing option, does not do that either.

    Old Line Publishing Website:
    the manuscript must be approved by our Manuscript Review Board (MRB). This multimember panel reviews all manuscripts and evaluates them for character and plot development, writing style, libelous, scandalous or explicit material, marketability, and salability. If the manuscript is approved by the MRB, then it needs to be evaluated by our editing staff. The less editing required, the greater the chance of it being published in a traditional manner.
    There's no word on who is on this "multimember panel" and frankly, I don't know why any publisher would even need one. A good commissioning editor should be able to review a book, decide whether it's saleable, how much work needs doing to it to make it saleable and whether it's something they should be publishing.

    I suspect that it's at the "editorial stage" that you fell down, genejock72, and the fact that Old Line Publishing is not up front about charging editing fees, is not the sign of a publisher an author should want to publish with because it's shady practice.

    However, given that there's nothing on the site to indicate the qualifications of the company's editors, I wouldn't worry too much about not meeting their checkbook, sorry, exacting standards.

    Old Line Publishing Website:
    If your manuscript is chosen to be published in a traditional manner, Old Line Publishing will retain certain “exclusive rights” to your book. The reason for this is that as a traditional publishing company we are paying for the entire cost of getting your book published. This includes, editing, layout and formatting, distribution and marketing. These costs can range anywhere from several hundred dollars to several thousands of dollars depending on the complexity of your book. Once the book is published, the rights that are retained by the company is the only assurance that we can recoup the monies that have been invested to produce your book. If your manuscript is published in a self-publishing manner, then you as the author, keep all the rights to your book.
    This makes no sense. Any publisher takes exclusive rights to publish your book - regardless of whether you're self-publishing or commercially publishing. The reason is because they don't want to be selling something that Joe Bloggs down the road has the exact same rights to.

    Whichever way you go with this company, you lose your first publishing rights and those are the ones that matter.

    Old Line Publishing Website:
    Do you provide author advances for accepted manuscripts?
    No.
    This is where an author should consider walking away. A publisher that's not prepared to take a financial punt by paying an author up front for a manuscript, is a company that's not truly invested in the IMHO.

    Old Line Publishing Website:
    Can I include photographs in my book?
    Yes. You can include photographs, line art, or other photo-quality images in your book. Unlike some other publishing companies we allow unlimited insertions of images in our publications.
    They should be pointing out that you will need to own or have a copyright licence for those photos and that inclusion of a lot of pictures can push the cover price up because it's more expensive to print.

    Old Line Publishing Website:
    How long does it take before my book is available for sale?
    Once the cover design and layouts are approved and we send your book to the printer, it takes about 2 weeks before your book is ready to be ordered. The entire process, from receipt of your submissions package until the book is available for sale, takes an average of 8 to 12 weeks.
    That's a short turn around time and I would guess it means there's little to no advance publicity (which is needed to generate sales and awareness).

    Old Line Publishing Website:
    What kinds of books do you publish?
    We publish a wide variety of books, including cookbooks, children’s books, fiction, non-fiction, reference books, history books and collecting books. We reserve the right to reject any submission. We will not publish, for example, pornography, libelous or slanderous material, or any material deemed illegal by municipal, state or federal law.
    So they pretty much publish anything and everything. That's not a good sign. Start up publishers serious about getting books out there to readers usually start in one or two genres and build up their reputation before branching out.

    Old Line Publishing Website: (BOLDING MINE)
    How do I get paid?
    We send you biannual sales reports showing the total number of books sold (if any) in the previous six months, the total wholesale value, the gross profit for books sold, and the total royalties owed. We will also send you a check in the amount of the royalties owed. Royalties earned by the author, which are less than $10.00 are not paid. Instead they are held for the next accounting period and a check will be issued if the combined amount exceeds $10.00. Each report and royalty check is sent within 30 days of the end of each six month period. Royalties are paid on the sale price of the book regardless of the cover price.
    The suggestion that some authors won't sell any books in 6 months is not encouraging and I'd want to know exactly how many authors earn more than $10.00 each six months.

    Old Line Publishing Website:
    Do I earn a royalty on every single book that is sold?
    Yes, with one exception. Because we provide such a substantial discount on author copies, we do not pay royalties on author copies of your book.
    Given that so much of the website is aimed at authors rather than the book buying public, it is perfectly possible that in practice, most books are purchased by authors with a view to selling on - which means that they only profit they will be making is the uplift they add to the price.

    This is not what authors should be doing, nor is it how they should expect to make money from their work.

    Old Line Publishing Website:
    What are your royalty rates?
    If your manuscript is chosen to be published in a traditional manner, then Old Line Publishing will pay 15% of the sale price back to you in the form of a royalty. This is better than many other traditional publishing houses. If your manuscript is published in a self-publishing manner, then Old Line Publishing will pay 35% of the sale price back to you in the form of a royalty. Again, this is one of the highest in the self-publishing world.
    That's great, if the majority of your sales are coming from the book buying public, but the problem is that you don't get those royalties on author bought copies and if buying and selling on copies is the only way an author can get their work out there, they won't make any royalties from it.

    Old Line Publishing Website:
    Do you edit my manuscript before publishing it?
    If your manuscript is chosen to be published in a traditional manner, then Old Line Publishing will perform basic editing of your work. In some cases we'll provide the editing notes to you, which you can incorporate or discard at your option. Our editors will focus on typographical errors, improper syntax, and the like. We do not alter the "style" or composition of your manuscript in any substantial form. In no case will we rewrite or substantially alter your manuscript, and you always have final approval over any recommended changes. If your manuscript is published in a self-publishing manner, then you have the option of choosing one of three editing packages to polish your manuscript.
    If you're 'traditionally published' then you should be getting something more from your publisher than mere copy editing.

    Real editors, edit. That means that they look at your overall work and comment on the structure, they make suggestions for ditching or improving plot lines, they'll suggest rewriting dialogue and they will work closely with the author for a period of months until the polished product is one that is in the best condition they can get it.

    Authors benefit from that.

    Old Line Publishing Website: (BOLDING MINE)
    How will you sell and market my book?
    If your manuscript is chosen to be published in a traditional manner, then once your book is finalized by the printer we will begin letting the world know that your book is available. We will always promote and sell your book through our own website, as well as other internet bookstores such as Barnes and Noble.com, Amazon.com, AbeBooks.com and Alibris.com. In some cases, we contract with a marketing firm to do specialized and focused niche marketing. Your book is entered into a master database which is used by all the bookstores in the US (Books in Print). Additional promotional material may be purchased by you to advertise your book such as pamphlets, brochures and/or flyers. If your manuscript is published in a self-publishing manner, then you can choose how your book is marketed by purchasing the appropriate publishing package.
    This is all bare minimum stuff and promotional material should be prepared as a matter of course at no cost to the author.

    Frankly, if this is all they do then IMO there is little chance of an author making any significant sales beyond what they sell on themselves.

    Old Line Publishing Website: (BOLDING MINE)
    Is there a minimum number of books I must purchase?
    No. You are under no obligation to purchase any books. However, you will often find it handy to have books readily available for you to distribute as you see fit. You will be one of the greatest promoters of your book.
    No kidding because Old Line will be doing jack shit to help you out.
    Old Line Publishing Website:
    Where will readers find my book?
    If your manuscript is chosen to be published in a traditional manner, then your book will receive access to the widest book distribution network in the world. Your book, upon completion, will be available by order through most traditional "brick and mortar" bookstores and will be listed with online booksellers such as amazon.com and barnesandnoble.com, as well as being put in our own e-commerce catalog. It will also be listed with Books In Print.
    Being available to order is absolutely no substitute for being placed in stores. Old Line Publishing does not seem to do that. Without a proper promotions campaign behind you, it's difficult to see how any author made "available to order" will distinguish themselves from the thousands of other such authors to find a reading public.

    The marketing services here: http://www.oldlinepublishingllc.com/...gServices.html are expensive and all things that commercial publishers should be doing for free as a matter of course.

    The covers for the latest new releases here:

    http://www.oldlinepublishingllc.com/...wReleases.html

    look like clip art and certainly not something that an author should be paying for.

    All in all, your book can do better than going with an outfit like this.

    MM

  8. #8
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Actually i am on old line publishing, they have been very helpful, and i have a book available to purchase on Amazon.com
    haven't had to pay a penny.

    enough said really

  9. #9
    Shakespearean Fool DreamWeaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi216 View Post
    Actually i am on old line publishing, they have been very helpful, and i have a book available to purchase on Amazon.com
    haven't had to pay a penny.

    enough said really
    Glad you're having a good experience. We will be very interested to hear about your sales numbers in six months.
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  10. #10
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Glad you're having a good experience. We will be very interested to hear about your sales numbers in six months.
    not everyone is in this for massive sales, i just wanted to get my book to a state where it is orderable, so perhaps these kinds of companies need to be judged for what the author wishes to achieve?

  11. #11
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    Sales = readers. If you don't want readers, why publish? Sincere question.
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  12. #12
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Quote Originally Posted by veinglory View Post
    Sales = readers. If you don't want readers, why publish? Sincere question.

    No i do want readers and i honestly know the link between sales and readers, it goes without saying, but I haven't gone into this thinking "oh My book sales are going to be astronomical"

    I just felt perhaps these people are assuming because Old line are new that equates to them being poor. I am under no illusions that sales = readers but i also know that these things can take time, effort, and a bit of luck.

    anywho as I say, I would be happy to earn a success over three or four books, then to have a massive success then it fail, and for me (for now) Old line is perfect

  13. #13
    aka Sadistic Mistress Mi-chan M.R.J. Le Blanc's Avatar
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    I don't think people here are saying no massive sales means the publisher's a dud, but knowing what sales to expect would help other writers determine whether this is a publisher they want to go with or not.
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    Tired and Disillusioned Momento Mori's Avatar
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    Malachi216:
    Actually i am on old line publishing, they have been very helpful, and i have a book available to purchase on Amazon.com
    haven't had to pay a penny.
    Can I ask what made you go with Old Line as opposed to using Lulu or any one of a host of other self-publishing outfits?

    Malachi216:
    i just wanted to get my book to a state where it is orderable, so perhaps these kinds of companies need to be judged for what the author wishes to achieve?
    The problem I have with publishers like this is that even when authors go in with low expectations, the publisher still fails to deliver. What struck me from Old Line's website is that they are doing the absolute bare minimum and while your book may be available to order, I will be interested in knowing whether they fulfil those orders and if so, how long it takes to do so.

    In addition, having a book made available to order is meaningless without some kind of promotional support to tell people about it so that they can place orders. There is nothing to suggest that Old Line will do anything without being paid for it and even then their marketing material is all stuff you can do yourself cheaper. There are millions of books available on Amazon - but it's the publisher who helps yours to stand out.

    Malachi216:
    I just felt perhaps these people are assuming because Old line are new that equates to them being poor.
    No, it's not the fact that they're new that makes me think they're a poor option, it's the fact that they're not doing anything that a commercial publisher should be doing to support authors, there's nothing on the website to suggest it's staffed or run by people with experience in commercial publishing and everything on that website is geared towards selling services and products to authors - a classic sign of a vanity press.

    MM
    Last edited by Momento Mori; 10-06-2010 at 01:02 AM.

  15. #15
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    my general approach was to email a brief synopsis of the book to some publishers, I emailed well over seventy in the space of three months, the only one who got back to me other than Old line was 'authorhouse' but they wanted me to pay for the first run, which was simply not an option.

    Old line run annual signing event in the states and just by the sheer level of enthusiasm for my project and the capacity I have seen for them to get it right and get it up to scratch made me see that though Old line are new, they do know what they are doing. their web page is poor i admit. but dont judge a book by its cover.

    for me, its out there, I am doing my best to self promote in my home town and will be looking at trying to get radio/tv time. to some up my experience with old line I would say - enjoyable.

    I truely hope for readers, sales, and I do worry about what they are doing promotion wise etc. but nothing sells a book better than quality and luck

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    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    You hopes are admirable. But realise that this forum is to help people select their press in a rather rigorous manner. Not just see who bites and hope for the best. So just be aware that the context of discussion is to see just what this press can and cannot do--not run them down just out of some kind of malice. I publish predominantly with small presses too. But there are a lot of them and I chose specific ones for specific reasons (enthusiasm not being one of them in my case) and I knew what sales to expect well before the point of submission.
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  17. #17
    Girl Detective Stacia Kane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi216 View Post

    I truely hope for readers, sales, and I do worry about what they are doing promotion wise etc. but nothing sells a book better than quality and luck

    Oh, if only that were true...


    Unfortunately it isn't.
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  18. #18
    starting over Marian Perera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi216 View Post
    I truely hope for readers, sales, and I do worry about what they are doing promotion wise etc. but nothing sells a book better than quality and luck
    And if by "luck" you mean marketing and distribution...
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  19. #19
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    alot of people are getting very touchy, and what has become obvious is this = I am a pretty easy going guy, and for me, if it happens it happens, if not then not, as Long as I make a little money out of it, I'm pleased.

    I think a few of you misinterpret my point = yes you will all go into your own deals with publishers with a rough Idea how many sales you will get, but all I wanted from the get go was to get my book out there, Marketing and distribution is yes going to make a difference, so I advertise on my web page, set up a facebook group, and plug it in forums I frequent.

    I know that the question is "will Old line (or any smaller firm) be able to get the results of a bigger firm?" but the point I have made is this - of the 70 plus publishers I approached with the last in january only two got back to me and expressed an interest in seeing my manuscript.

    20-30 contacted me to tell me that they would only consider me if I got myself established or if I considered writing a 'common interest' book (celeb bio etc.)

    the world is a big place, and word of mouth can go a long way to help sales of a new author, and baring in mind this is my first book, I know I have to earn my place, it wont be handed to me - or anyone, good logistics or not.

  20. #20
    Girl Detective Stacia Kane's Avatar
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    And Malachi, you may be pleased with your results, and that's great. No one here is getting "touchy," we're having a discussion. You just wanted to get your book out there. Great. But you are not the only person who reads this forum. Most of the people here are seeking more than that, and these discussions are for everyone, including those with bigger goals. Our purpose here is to provide everyone who visits with information about what an individual publisher does and does not/will and will not do.

    Perhaps you could stop taking this personally, rather than calling us "touchy" because we're having a discussion which really isn't about you, personally, in any way? No one is judging you. No one is judging the quality of your book, which may well be excellent and no one is saying it isn't. We're discussing your publisher, and we're sharing our experiences with many small and large presses and what those experiences taught us.

    Our experiences have taught us that "getting the book out there," setting up Facebook groups, and whatever word-of-mouth you may glean from that, has little to no effect without distribution or a publisher of whom people have heard behind it. How many books have you personally bought online because a member of a forum mentioned it? How many Facebook groups for books have you stumbled across, and decided to buy the book based on that? How many Old Line books have you purchased and read? How many other books have you purchased and read from publisher websites like Old Line's, without even an excerpt available for you to read before you decide?

    Word of mouth does a lot, yes, but the book has to be readily available for it to do so. And no, nothing is handed to anyone in publishing. Everyone here is well aware of that. Nothing was handed to me, or to anyone else posting here.

    And no one here wishes you ill. We're here because we want to help other writers meet their goals. If Old Line met yours and continues to do so, that's wonderful. But please understand your goals are not the only goals.
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  21. #21
    Pixie with dust, beware Rebekkamaria's Avatar
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    I don't think the question is if small publishers will be able to get the same results as big publishers - or if they even should. I could take my chance with smaller publishers, too. To me the question is: what kind of publishers are these small firms? If they only publish books (sometimes with cost, sometimes just the editing costs etc.) and sell them mostly to their authors and get their profit from there, I would run for the hills. If they have a marketing department who actively creates connections to booksellers, and have major book stores as their customers (actual customers, not just: they can order your books from us), I'd easily choose them even if they were new and small.

    I'd rather write a new book than publish a book that nobody wants. It doesn't mean the book is bad. It might be just a wrong time for a book like that.
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  22. #22
    Tired and Disillusioned Momento Mori's Avatar
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    Malachi216:
    my general approach was to email a brief synopsis of the book to some publishers, I emailed well over seventy in the space of three months,
    Did you research those 70 publishers before submitting your novel to see if they were interested in the genre you've written in and/or were accepting unsolicited submissions? Did you submit in accordance with each publisher's submission requirements (if any) as some publishers will want a synopsis and the first three chapters and won't respond if the requirements are not complied with?

    3 months is not enough time for some publishers to get back to you. The slush piles at some of the bigger publishers who accept unsolicited submissions are massive and it can take them anything up to 2 years to respond. That's why most people here suggest you query agents first - they have access to editors and if you can get an agent, they can smooth the process for you. Did you query any agents with your book?

    Malachi216:
    Old line run annual signing event in the states
    One signing event? For the whole US? That's not a lot and in terms of effective marketing/promotion, it doesn't cut the mustard.

    There's also the fact that you seem to be based in England. Are they organising any signing events for you over here or will you be expected to attend their one signing event in the US (whenever and wherever that may be)?

    Malachi216:
    just by the sheer level of enthusiasm for my project and the capacity I have seen for them to get it right and get it up to scratch made me see that though Old line are new, they do know what they are doing.
    Enthusiasm doesn't make up for lack of experience and in terms of getting it right - physically producing a book is the easy part. You can go to any commercial printer in Reading and get a physical product that will look professional. Publishing however, is not just about producing a physical book, it's about selling it.

    What has Old Line told you they are going to do to sell your book?

    Malachi216:
    their web page is poor i admit. but dont judge a book by its cover.
    Their web page is the first point of call for authors and/or customers. If they can't get that right so that it projects a commercial and professional image, then it suggests they lack professionalism in other areas.

    Malachi216:
    I am doing my best to self promote in my home town and will be looking at trying to get radio/tv time.
    Radio/tv time (even assuming you can get it without having to pay for it) is not enough to sell books. Is it going to be sold in bookstores in this country or are you going to have to tell people that they can only order it on-line from Amazon and the Old Line site? People like to be able to go to a bookstore and pick it up from a shelf. If your book isn't in stores, how is anyone going to be able to do that?

    Malachi216:
    alot of people are getting very touchy
    Not at all - but I understand if you're telling yourself that because it's easier than listening to what we have to say.

    Malachi216:
    for me, if it happens it happens, if not then not, as Long as I make a little money out of it, I'm pleased.
    If you make money then that's great. What I suspect though (and I hope I'm wrong) is that you'll be very lucky to sell even 100 copies of your book, that those 100 copies will be sold due to your efforts not your publishers. There is nothing on the Old Line website to make me think that they have any interest in selling books to people who aren't you or your friends/family. And assuming you do sell 100 copies, don't expect a royalty cheque to be more than a few quid because the terms are not favourable at all (and if your royalties are under $10, then you'll be waiting longer to see anything at all).

    I suggest that you keep an eye on what you're spending to sell your book - whether that's advertising, promotional materials or petrol to go to events - and then check that against your first royalty payment and see if you've made a profit or a loss.

    Malachi216:
    yes you will all go into your own deals with publishers with a rough Idea how many sales you will get
    No, you don't go into a commercial publishing deal with an anticipation of a certain sales number.

    A commercial publisher will have a certain sales figure in mind for the book - which will be reflected in the advance that you are offered. If you hit that figure, then you can get into royalties, which is nice. If you don't, then you've still got your advance, which is also nice.

    However, any commercial publisher will be thinking about sales in terms of thousands because they know the realistic figures based on their experience.

    Small start-ups like Old Line - which apparently have no commercial experience - won't have a clue how many books they will sell and (from what I see based on their site) are looking to sell back to the author anyway. That's how they make their money. Look at PA - if they had an order for even 5,000 books they would wet themselves because they lack the facilities to fulfil it.

    Malachi216:
    all I wanted from the get go was to get my book out there
    And you can achieve that with Lulu on terms that mean you keep control of your book, the selling price etc etc. A publisher like Old Line might give you the illusion of publishing credibility because they talk about manuscript review boards - but it is just an illusion. They're open about accepting any genre and don't do anything except the most basic marketing and distribution. You could achieve all that with Lulu.

    Malachi216:
    I advertise on my web page, set up a facebook group, and plug it in forums I frequent.
    That's great. What are Old Line doing?

    Malachi216:
    the point I have made is this - of the 70 plus publishers I approached with the last in january only two got back to me and expressed an interest in seeing my manuscript.
    And that could be down to any number of reasons, from not having done your research properly, to not complying with their submission requirements, to not having written an effective synopsis.

    The bottom line though is that you seem to have wanted an instant response because you only waited 3 months. That's a nothing period of time. Publishing is a marathon, not a sprint.

    Malachi216:
    20-30 contacted me to tell me that they would only consider me if I got myself established or if I considered writing a 'common interest' book (celeb bio etc.)
    Can't comment on this without knowing who the publishers are - but again, it depends on what you're writing, whether you made the most of your synopsis etc.

    Malachi216:
    word of mouth can go a long way to help sales of a new author
    Word of mouth is useless if no one can actually get hold of your book because it's not readily available.

    MM

  23. #23
    starting over Marian Perera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi216 View Post
    I think a few of you misinterpret my point = yes you will all go into your own deals with publishers with a rough Idea how many sales you will get, but all I wanted from the get go was to get my book out there
    It's not necessary to have a publisher to get a book "out there" - if by "out there" one means listed on Amazon, on Facebook, available upon order, etc.

    That's why we'd like to make it clear for anyone considering Old Line that if all they want is to have a book "out there", they have other options.

    Marketing and distribution is yes going to make a difference, so I advertise on my web page, set up a facebook group, and plug it in forums I frequent.
    So it does take more than "quality and luck" to sell a book.

    Whether your efforts will compensate for a publisher's lack of marketing and distribution is something the royalty checks should show.

    I know that the question is "will Old line (or any smaller firm) be able to get the results of a bigger firm?" but the point I have made is this - of the 70 plus publishers I approached with the last in january only two got back to me and expressed an interest in seeing my manuscript.

    20-30 contacted me to tell me that they would only consider me if I got myself established or if I considered writing a 'common interest' book (celeb bio etc.)
    I find that detail very interesting. Twenty or more publishers actually responded to tell you that they didn't accept unpublished writers or to tell you to write a celebrity biography?

    the world is a big place, and word of mouth can go a long way to help sales of a new author, and baring in mind this is my first book, I know I have to earn my place, it wont be handed to me - or anyone, good logistics or not.
    The book cover in my avatar is my first book too. But the way I see it, I "earn my place" by writing the best manuscript I can and then signing up with a publisher who will earn their share by editing, designing, marketing and distributing the book.
    Last edited by Marian Perera; 10-06-2010 at 02:22 PM.
    Ghost : Christmas Past. With beta!
    Spirit : Christmas Present. 13,038 words.

  24. #24
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Old Line is scheduled to speak at a local MWA event (Saturday 3/8 at the N. Carroll Library). I'm not sure what the arrangements are, but the first time they contacted the group they wanted to be paid to come speak to the group. Based on their website, they are clearly a POD publisher. The retail prices listed for their paperbacks seems high.

  25. #25
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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