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Thread: Good Critiques You've Seen - Share them here!

  1. #1
    is this how it ends? SuperModerator poetinahat's Avatar
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    Good Critiques You've Seen - Share them here!

    Something I think has been suggested before, and I thought it would be good to try - every week (or so), I'd like to highlight a crit done on a poem here that seems particularly illuminating.

    Critiquing itself is a fine skill, and it can help gain insight into one's own writing. And, surely, we can never have too many good crits.

    So if, during your reading here, you run across a crit you think is exemplary, please forward me the link to it.

    Here's my first nominee: Priene's comments on Magdalen's Poetry Step One.

  2. #2
    ... Steppe's Avatar
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    Thanks for starting this Poet. Something we've needed. A wonderful critique by Priene. Sets a good example.

    How do you cut sections out like that for individual attention?
    "Don't worry about readers. Their on their own and will find meanings for your poems in their histories and yearnings. Let language go where it wants. If readers respond to your language, the poem can't help but mean." Poet Richard Hugo

  3. #3
    Petulantly Penitent Magdalen's Avatar
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    Yep, Rob, I meant to post reply earlier. Good idea!
    [My Best Work Is Done Offline]


  4. #4
    Petulantly Penitent Magdalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steppe View Post
    Thanks for starting this Poet. Something we've needed. A wonderful critique by Priene. Sets a good example.

    How do you cut sections out like that for individual attention?
    Hit the quote button. For 2 or more quotes use "+ !
    [My Best Work Is Done Offline]


  5. #5
    practical experience, FTW AnonymousWriter's Avatar
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    Good idea, Rob. Prienne's critique was very good.

    I really do think critiquing is a fine skill. I often find that writing a useful critique is harder than writing a poem.

  6. #6
    is this how it ends? SuperModerator poetinahat's Avatar
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    Me too, Anon, me too.

    I'm glad you all like the idea. If you've found any crits especially insightful, please PM me, or nominate them here!

  7. #7
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    Thanks Rob. I forgot to reply to this one a couple of weeks ago. It's worth mentioning that good critiques tend to come out of good poems, which Magdalen's certainly is.

    And the trick to section cuttings is the bits of code which look something like this:

    {QUOTE=wordsworth;5407617}I wandered lonely as a cloud
    That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
    When all at once I saw a crowd,
    A host of golden daffodils;{/QUOTE}

    I've replaced the square brackets with curly ones - otherwise they wouldn't show up right when I submit this reply. I use copy and paste to make multiple sections:

    {QUOTE=wordsworth;5407617}I wandered lonely as a cloud
    That floats on high o'er vales and hills,{/QUOTE}

    Hey Wordsworth, that simile's limper than a three-legged mongrel.

    {QUOTE=wordsworth;5407617}When all at once I saw a crowd,
    A host of golden daffodils;{/QUOTE}

    Ah come on, petunias are miles better than daffodils.

    ====================

    Which when you use the original square brackets looks like this:



    Quote Originally Posted by wordsworth View Post
    I wandered lonely as a cloud
    That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
    Hey Wordsworth, that simile's limper than a three-legged mongrel.

    Quote Originally Posted by wordsworth View Post
    When all at once I saw a crowd,
    A host of golden daffodils;
    Ah come on, petunias are miles better than daffodils.

  8. #8
    is this how it ends? SuperModerator poetinahat's Avatar
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    Thanks to Steppe for nominating this one: kdnxdr's several-part critique of aspier's "theft at night" - thoughtful work and neat cooperation between poet and critic.

    Well done, kid and Argo!

  9. #9
    One of the most important people in the world kdnxdr's Avatar
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    Thank you. It's been quite fun, especially since my dear friend Aspier is so willing and open.

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  10. #10
    is this how it ends? SuperModerator poetinahat's Avatar
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    kdnxdr has nominated the crits and the critic/poet exchange in Oh God, You're T.S. Eliot! - I'm pleased to be part of a discussion that she thought worth noting.

  11. #11
    One of the most important people in the world kdnxdr's Avatar
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    Thank you for posting the crit/poet exchange on Oh, God, You're T.S. Elliot! The reason I really thought it should be posted here is that it has many interesting aspects to the poem but especially because of the dialogue between those offering critiques and the poet. I know allowing one's poem to be scrutinized by the public is always intimidating because the poem is 'born' of the poet and it's 'your baby' and we always want to defend 'what's ours'. But, there is also an attitude here at AW where, even in seriously critical critiques, there is respect and civility. I think the more that can be openly represented by what we do as a group, the more people will overcome their hesitations to post both poem and critique. Thanks to all who participated in this 'round'.

    kid
    Last edited by kdnxdr; 12-06-2010 at 07:24 AM.
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  12. #12
    Has a few recurring issues kborsden's Avatar
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    I'd love to see a return to this idea -- it's a point of learning for all of us in how we write our poems, how we approach critting those of others and how we (should) react to crits we receive.

    If we were to, I'd nominate this for first run - because of the level of honesty, without sacrificing respect.
    Kieran Borsden
    "to be born Welsh, is to be born--not with a silver spoon in your mouth, but with song in your heart, and poetry in your soul"



    -->Read Me


    Got to write an Englyn or 2

  13. #13
    creature void of form stuntdog's Avatar
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    Not sure about this critique section. Is it for people looking for feedback in order to edit their poems? If I posted a poem. It would be finished. So, I wouldn't be looking to edit poem. Just to know what people think of it. Would it be ok to post in this section or better to post in regular poetry section?


  14. #14
    Doing the Space Operatic Izz's Avatar
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    stuntdog, if you don't want crit, it's best to post in the Chapbook section

  15. #15
    Has a few recurring issues kborsden's Avatar
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    There is a chapbook section for sharing. However - I tend to use just the critique section, even if I believe my poem is finished as people's comments and reviews are more honest and as I see it - there's always room for improvement (even harsh or negative feedback can be useful)...no one is ever as good as they think they are.
    Kieran Borsden
    "to be born Welsh, is to be born--not with a silver spoon in your mouth, but with song in your heart, and poetry in your soul"



    -->Read Me


    Got to write an Englyn or 2

  16. #16
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    There is a natural competitiveness in people that too often turns things tense or sour, but it can also be harnessed to good ends. I bet this could be a useful and interesting part of the forum, and inspire in some small way people to crit more often and better. It might even pull people into reading poems they had missed.

  17. #17
    One of the most important people in the world kdnxdr's Avatar
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    Come on now! Someone get the bl's and nominate a critique!
    check out my flickr photos :
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    Here is our new website for culinary classes and tours:


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  18. #18
    ... Steppe's Avatar
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    I would like to offer my thank you to Kborsden (Kie) for his very detailed and excellent crits. He always offers some very good suggestions to make our poems better.

    And all this for FREE!

    Thank you Kie. And even when you don't use all of it, you can't help but remember it all the same.
    Last edited by Steppe; 06-17-2011 at 08:48 PM.
    "Don't worry about readers. Their on their own and will find meanings for your poems in their histories and yearnings. Let language go where it wants. If readers respond to your language, the poem can't help but mean." Poet Richard Hugo

  19. #19
    Has a few recurring issues kborsden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdnxdr View Post
    Come on now! Someone get the bl's and nominate a critique!
    I did here

    Quote Originally Posted by Steppe View Post
    I would like to offer my thank you to Kborsden (Kie) for his very detailed and excellent crits. He always offers some very good suggestions to make our poems better.

    And all this for FREE!

    Thank you Kie. And even when you don't use all of it, you can't help but remember it all the same.
    <<< now I'll be off to blush somewhere...
    Last edited by kborsden; 09-13-2011 at 07:34 AM.
    Kieran Borsden
    "to be born Welsh, is to be born--not with a silver spoon in your mouth, but with song in your heart, and poetry in your soul"



    -->Read Me


    Got to write an Englyn or 2

  20. #20
    has a custom title NickDR's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Steppe View Post
    I would like to offer my thank you to Kborsden (Kie) for his very detailed and excellent crits. He always offers some very good suggestions to make our poems better.

    And all this for FREE!

    Thank you Kie. And even when you don't use all of it, you can't help but remember it all the same.
    I am NickDR and I support this message.

  21. #21
    Has a few recurring issues kborsden's Avatar
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    I'd like to thank everyone who has found my critiques helpful for posting in the first place and actually giving me something to crit to begin with. Also, I appreciate the many kind words and reps.

    Sometimes what starts as a single comment critique becomes a joint effort that gives birth to fantastic poetry - sometimes all a poet needs is the smallest detail pointed out -- whatever the situation, it is nice to have the support and appreciation of your peers and know that you have done some good. A good critique can at times take as much energy and time as the poem took to write.

    As for this thread - well, it seems to have died several deaths before actually even ever being born, which is a shame as it represents the perfect way to show our appreciation for everyone who helps us produce what we do. I'd like to undo that - Just as with PotW, I believe we can carry this thread and concept off amongst ourselves. Also, just as with PotW, I'd like to suggest that whichever poet/critic is selected as the author of CotW should be the one to decide over the selection of the week that follows -- the week being Sunday to Sunday.


    I will ask PIAH if he will be so kind as to announce the first.
    Last edited by kborsden; 09-18-2011 at 05:39 AM.
    Kieran Borsden
    "to be born Welsh, is to be born--not with a silver spoon in your mouth, but with song in your heart, and poetry in your soul"



    -->Read Me


    Got to write an Englyn or 2

  22. #22
    give it to me straight Brandt's Avatar
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    I wonder if this thread could be moved to the front page of critique section just under/above PotW?

  23. #23
    Has a few recurring issues kborsden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandt View Post
    I wonder if this thread could be moved to the front page of critique section just under/above PotW?
    Something that needs to be discussed with the mods.
    Kieran Borsden
    "to be born Welsh, is to be born--not with a silver spoon in your mouth, but with song in your heart, and poetry in your soul"



    -->Read Me


    Got to write an Englyn or 2

  24. #24
    is this how it ends? SuperModerator poetinahat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kborsden View Post
    I will ask PIAH if he will be so kind as to announce the first.
    I'd be delighted. And I nominate the discussion arising from NickDR's Lessons Carved in Bark.

  25. #25
    is this how it ends? SuperModerator poetinahat's Avatar
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    Here's another nominee: flowerfairy's Chimera. I like it because there's some open, constructive criticism of the poem, and the poet has proved both gracious in receiving the feedback, and willing to use it. At the same time, she stands by her opinion when she prefers the original over the suggested changes.

    Very good examples for poets and critters alike.

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