Is the Kindle Killing My Dream?

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kuwisdelu

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I find it ironic that I am getting all of this venom from this page, of all places, when this was the very place that I came a few months back and spoke of writing with pen and paper and how many authors still use typewriters instead of computers because it made their writing easier.

The scariest thing I am seeing is how the almighty dollar is taking precedent over the art of literature. So long as the money is right, who cares what happens in the literary world, right?

Huh?

When you buy a book or a record, what do you think you're paying for? Do you think you're paying for the physical container? The $ 0.05 CD and those pieces of paper between the covers? Or for the work the author put into his or her work?

You said "a digital file of any sort is really nothing."

Yeah, in the same way the pages of a printed book are nothing. In the same way the grooves of a record or the 1's and 0's of a CD are nothing.

What matters is the work that went into the information in those things, and what we get out of them.

We should care about the work that artists put into their projects. Not the tools they used to do it, or the way people choose to consume it.
 

Carlene

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Yup, that almighty dollar from my nine soon to be ten e-books helps feed my husband, me and my two dogs. I've published conventionally, self-published and now e-published and it still takes me about a year to write a book. Of course, I don't write great literature so I guess my books don't count.

Carlene

Roman Circus
Legacy – pub date 9/27/2010
www.nobleromance.com

Mind Echoes
Stormy Love
The Worst Evil
www.whiskeycreekpress.com

Call Sign: Love
The Colors of Death
An Extra Pair of Eyes
www.writewordsinc.com

Finder
www.wildchildpublishing.com

Mysterious Gift
www.cobblestone-press.com
 

brainstorm77

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I find it ironic that I am getting all of this venom from this page, of all places, when this was the very place that I came a few months back and spoke of writing with pen and paper and how many authors still use typewriters instead of computers because it made their writing easier.

The scariest thing I am seeing is how the almighty dollar is taking precedent over the art of literature. So long as the money is right, who cares what happens in the literary world, right?

You do realize for many a writer, that's their job, their source of income?
 

nickspalding

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The scariest thing I am seeing is how the almighty dollar is taking precedent over the art of literature. So long as the money is right, who cares what happens in the literary world, right?

You might want to Google Shakespeare and do a bit of reading around why he wrote a majority of his plays...

It wasn't for the 'art of literature', needless to say.
 

Deleted member 42

Peeps, chill out. On all sides.

I love cuneiform tablets; I love their beauty. I love the way they warm to my hand. I love that I can read and use a recipe for bread--or beer--that's almost three thousand years old.

I love papyrus scrolls. I love the mellow tint that the colors take on, and the brush strokes that define the hieroglyphics.

I love the Torah. I love the beauty of the carefully, individually crafted letters. I love the wisdom they hold, and the accuracy of the scribes.

I love manuscripts, whether law codes, or histories or poetry, or mythologies--I love the ugly much glosses, much read worn ones. I love the marginal glosses that contradict the main text. I love the beauty of the forgotten tongues, little read, and little studied. I love the illuminations, even when the text they accompany is hopelessly corrupt.

I love my Kelmscott Chaucer. I love my first Norton Anthology, the one with the green cover. I love my battered and worn Dorothy Dunnett paperbacks, the ones I can never get rid of because they were the ones I I used when I keyed all the quotation sources I found. I love my annotated Riverside Chaucer, with twenty years of my notes carefully penned in the margins.

But I also love my 1994 Hypertext Handlist of Rhetorical Terms for the Mac, my Complete Hengwrt Chaucer, my Voyager MacBeth, and A Hard Days Night and Last Chance to See, my hundreds of ebooks of SF and F novels, and history books, and Classical Latin texts, that I read on my iPhone and iPad, now when my vision is often not up to a printed book.

I love them all.

And I really don't think we need to worry about books.
 

WrittenIn1981

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This is MY job as well. I get paid to be a freelance writer. I make my money writing articles and movie reviews. But I also want to do the best writing I can, not just for the money. If I think that e-books are going to ultimately hurt the literary and publishing worlds (which is something authors such as John Grisham have stated) then I am not going to support such a shift just because the money might be right.
 

kuwisdelu

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This is MY job as well. I get paid to be a freelance writer. I make my money writing articles and movie reviews. But I also want to do the best writing I can, not just for the money. If I think that e-books are going to ultimately hurt the literary and publishing worlds (which is something authors such as John Grisham have stated) then I am not going to support such a shift just because the money might be right.

Bad books will continue to be written, as they always have.

Good books will continue to be written, as they always have.

And I'll still try to be the best writer I can be, regardless of what format the readers of the future will want. Good writing is good writing, whatever it's written on or in.
 

Deleted member 42

If I think that e-books are going to ultimately hurt the literary and publishing worlds (which is something authors such as John Grisham have stated) then I am not going to support such a shift just because the money might be right.

First, I produced the first ever John Grisham ebook.

Second, unless you're thinking of a different quotation, John Grisham was talking about people publishing their own ebooks.

Which is not new.

People were publishing their own print books via vanity publishers for hundreds of years.

People started putting their own books out in HTML and .pdf in the mid 1990s (for .pdf) and by early 1994 were using HTML.

Grisham is worried about the "absence of gatekeepers."

But there are a lot of publishers who produce day-and-date digital versions of their print books, and a fair number of ebook producing indies who do in fact have editorial staff and work with literary agents.

It's not the end of the world. And I say that has someone published both digitally and in conventional consumer trade sold by conventional bookstores.
 

Greeble

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So, are there any writers who make a living publishing fiction solely as e-books?
 

zerospark

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This is MY job as well. I get paid to be a freelance writer. I make my money writing articles and movie reviews. But I also want to do the best writing I can, not just for the money. If I think that e-books are going to ultimately hurt the literary and publishing worlds (which is something authors such as John Grisham have stated) then I am not going to support such a shift just because the money might be right.

I see your point, and it's a commonly-made one: that we need some controls over "literature" to ensure that works are high-quality.

There's another angle to consider: how will having fewer barriers to entry and more available options lead to a net reduction in quality?

With a much larger supply of written works, it may well be that the proportion of good to bad will decrease. It would also be true that the absolute number of good works would increase because of more opportunities for marketing and promotion, and fewer obstacles to being published.

There is no inherent good or bad here, mind you, but it's not so clear that increasing opportunities and availabilities for written works will lead to a net decline in quality.
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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Oh dear--is it that time of year again?

WrittenIn1981: This literary quality argument you're basing your fears on is....bizarre to me. I worry a little about the eBook taking over, but not because I think we'll be overrun with poor quality literature. What I worry about is how much easier it'll be for someone to steal my work, assuming I get to a point where people would bother stealing it in the first place. I prefer solid books myself--I like carrying them around, flipping through the pages, fondling the glossy covers--but that's a purely aesthetic thing. One thing that's never crossed my mind is the idea that, if tons of people who don't write as well as I do get themselves digitally published, I should worry more about finding a spot on the shelf in a brick-and-mortar bookstore. I am truly mystified as to where you're coming from with that.
 

AlexPiper

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I love cuneiform tablets; I love their beauty. I love the way they warm to my hand. I love that I can read and use a recipe for bread--or beer--that's almost three thousand years old.

My favorite paperweight is a replica of a Mesopotamian receipt for home delivery of a truly prodigious amount of beer for a social gathering. In effect, the delivery receipt for an ancient Mesopotamian keg party. That paperweight lives on my desk, alongside my beloved fountain pens and ink, Clairefontaine notebooks and grandmother's antique pocketwatch.

And I happily read eBooks just like any other book. An eBook is considerably more convenient than a hardback; I can flip it between my Kindle, my iPad and my iPhone. If I'm stuck at a bus stop or waiting in a line, I can pull out whatever device is handy and continue reading my current book exactly where I left off, regardless of which device that was on. I can hold the Kindle in one hand easily and have the other hand free to placate the corgi who wants scritches when I'm reading in bed; that's not really easily done with a hardback book.

I still buy physical books, especially if I intend to get them signed. I treasure my physical books, too, but not having to worry about finding shelf space for things I want to read has made it a great deal easier for me to pick up a new book without guilt. (Sure, I could go and check it out of the library, but I'd rather support the writer by tallying up a sale!)

eBooks haven't killed my love for normal books; they've made it easier for me to engage in reading. :)
 

The Lonely One

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Look, photographers aren't yelling about digital photos anymore. Why? Because digital photos are actually BETTER quality and no one can tell the difference. Dark rooms are cool--but mostly for nostalgia's sake.

Pretty soon authors will stop yelling about e-books.

No, they aren't going away.

Yes, I own an ebook reader. Yes, I am a writer.

As a science fiction author I tend to think of ereaders as just another bit of technology we've been talking about for a long time (think: Jetsons). In fact, I think the fact people are still reading, regardless of format, is a GOOD thing.

Think about mp3s and napster--yeah, a lot of people steal music online, but a lot more people buy their mp3 albums at legit online stores for their ipods and whatnot than when it first became a popular medium. Like everything, the ebook market needs time to adapt.

Science fiction tells us to adapt or die, and it's been telling us that since the beginning.

Printed books aren't going away, but neither are ebooks. I honestly think the fear of ebooks destroying literature is as unfounded as many other fears of change.

We live in a technological world, and one that's a lot more technological than when I was a bit younger. These newer generations are born with ipods riveted to their hips, touch phones glued to their ears, and if we can get the xbox controller out of their hands and ereaders in, that's a big accomplishment for writers.
 

The Lonely One

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Print magazines and newspapers are folding every day. Big ones, little ones, it doesn't matter. The paper I worked at laid off half the newsroom (luckily I had already quit) and a ton of sales staff, went from a daily to a three-day-a-week, and I guarantee they'll go under in the next few years, if not sooner. Gannett had a nationwide week-long furlough for every single worker, reporter, sales, management, you name it. It was either take the financial hit or you're fired. And Gannett is a decently large news company.

I think print is quickly becoming unpopular. And I think newspapers have no f*cking idea how to deal with it. Free online news destroys revenue, not only because you stop getting new subscriptions (either you or the competition WILL offer a website, and much faster than it takes to print a paper and deliver it) and no one wants to pay your outrageous advertisement fees when they can just use craigs list--which, honestly, will probably get them more business than the newspaper no one reads.

Just before leaving journalism, it seemed to me print news was making this strange media shift towards online video (making it potentially more similar to TV news); the competition paper was making photographers do video interviews--since even Canons and whatnot shoot video now. Really strange. It's like print knows it's getting less popular but won't admit it, so they just come up with these wacky ideas.

It's just the way things are going. The world is centered around the internet and the digital medium.
 
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benbradley

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Are these not books?
http://gutenberg.org

I should point out an irony in the record example. The sale of legitimate vinyl records in North America and Europe have increased substantially in the last decade. Today, all major artists release their work on vinyl as well as compact disc and digital because the market has grown tremendously amongst college kids.
Yeah, and I always wanted my name on an LP record. Looks like I was born with the wrong last name:
http://thepfofj.bkstg.artistarena.com/preorder
So you don't think physical books will be printed in the future?
Considering the same amount of work goes into writing and selecting, editing, vetting, marketing, ... a book regardless of the final format...
It appears the OP is afraid that the advent of ebooks will cause an overwhelming number of badly written, unedited, self-published ebooks to appear. This surely will happen and is happening, but it will do nothing to lower the quality of books both printed and electronic from major publishers, and these will be as easily identifiable and as available as ever.

Just as I can't go buy bread without seeing a big cardboard stand with the latest Twilight book, we won't be able to go shopping online without seeing banner ads for the latest, hottest e-novel.
I find it ironic that I am getting all of this venom from this page, of all places, when this was the very place that I came a few months back and spoke of writing with pen and paper and how many authors still use typewriters instead of computers because it made their writing easier.

The scariest thing I am seeing is how the almighty dollar is taking precedent over the art of literature. So long as the money is right, who cares what happens in the literary world, right?
WHAT EXACTLY do you see happening to the literary world??? It appears you're implying something, but you haven't spelled out what will happen or why.
This is MY job as well. I get paid to be a freelance writer. I make my money writing articles and movie reviews. But I also want to do the best writing I can, not just for the money. If I think that e-books are going to ultimately hurt the literary and publishing worlds (which is something authors such as John Grisham have stated) then I am not going to support such a shift just because the money might be right.
Exactly HOW is it going to hurt them?
 

fredXgeorge

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You obviously have strong opinions. So do others. And when you put these opinions on the internet you have to be prepared for opinionated replies. To say that people are focusing on one comment is too bad. You said it so you have to own up to it. E-book authors are not illegitimate, they have gone through all the hard work to write it and if you are as passionate about literature and the literary industry as you say then don't scoff at others' work just because you may not agree with the format.

I understand you're worried about e-publishing. I know a lot are. For me, I'm 20 and work in a bookshop and I'm not at all. A lot of people who come into my shop are buying e-readers for travelling so they don't have to lug around heavy books or simply just for ease. I plan on buying one to take around Europe with me next year but I still prefer solid books and would much rather publish that way and be able to hold them and see them on shelves.
 

Coill

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Well, aside from only a couple of posters who actually wanted to help me out with my original question rather than jump down my throat, I could say the same for 90% of this thread who chose only to complain about the way I voiced my question rather than deal with what I actually asked.
Your question sounded mostly rhetorical, because it was completely overwhelmed by the "ebooks are evil and will be the death of publishing" sentiment.

That said, I don't care about books. I care about the story (or the information if it's non-fiction). I care about how it makes me think and feel. The physical format is insignificant.
 

RedRose

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I'm always walking through bookstores looking for a print book that will be a great read. 9 times out of 10, I come away empty handed. Either they are too expensive or they just don't interest me - I wouldn't read them if they were free.

So, I browse online. Within 30 minutes of cruising epublishers, I've found a story that I desperately want to read and it's instantly downloaded. The price is right, but that's not the main reason I'd buy it. I buy it because it's interesting.

I was walking in a well known bookstore the other day and could not find anything I wanted to read. I think I went there 3 days in a row. The money was burning a hole in my pocket. I needed to read. You all know that feeling, right? They had a wall of what the staff had picked as their top 100. I had read a few already, and the rest, after browsing the blurbs and first few pages were either boring or a waste of money.

Ebooks give me as a reader the chance to read what I like. I'm not talking all about erotica (even though I've read some stunning eroticas as ebooks), but other stories that big name publishers wouldn't look at.

Ebooks may be a file, and you may consider it nothing, but if you had $1 000,000 sitting in an electronic file at your bank, would you consider that nothing?

My dream as a writer is not killed by the Kindle. When a song can go viral in 24hrs and reach instant popularity, why would those same channels be bad for a book?

I don't care if it comes from dead trees or pixels. Although, saving trees would be good.

This art of literature you talk about doesn't touch all of the modern readers. Money isn't the main concern for me as a reader. Interest in the story and writing is my concern. I'm not going to plonk down $30 for a hardcover, even though it's written by a multi-published author if I don't like the plot.

Ebooks can double sales, introduce new ideas, quicken media attention. Get on board.
 

colealpaugh

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Look, photographers aren't yelling about digital photos anymore. Why? Because digital photos are actually BETTER quality and no one can tell the difference. Dark rooms are cool--but mostly for nostalgia's sake.

This is great analogy, IMHO. But it works more toward one of the OP's points.

Firstly, some photographers will always lament the complete shift to digital. From the wedding photogs who used to make $80k/yr, but who are now selling insurance, to the newspaper photo staffer who isn't needed because any reporter can handle a point-and-shoot digital camera.

Look at a copy of a 1987 Wilmington News Journal, Hartford Courant, SJ Mercury News, or Boston Globe. Then compare the images to today's papers. There are still great photojournalists. But there are less because the training ground is narrowed. A 30k circ daily used to have a minimum staff of three photogs, with a couple freelancers and maybe an intern. I once worked at a 50k daily Gannett with SIX staffers, four freelancers, and an intern slot.

The slow, twenty year demise of newspapers has strangled great photojournalism just because there are fewer jobs. But digital photography has had a part, too.

At many Thompson "rags" of the past (they are a good example because they were the largest chain by number of papers), reporters were often sent out with point and shoots. The reporters hated it because they weren't photographers. The photographers hated it because they were stuck developing and printing half-ass snap shots. Reporters and photogs had a secret agreement to bitch to editors, trying to keep them from cutting photo budgets and to remove the photo burden from reporters.

Enter the digital era. Wedding guests and reports both became viable alternatives to "real" photographers. There are still some fantastic photojournalists, but if you don't have a minor league, your major league teams will suffer.

The quality of film v. digital in newspapers is an old argument. As old as "to Photoshop or not to Photoshop the Coke can out." There are less jobs and less training, so there are fewer great photojournalists. Acceptable photos are much easier, so the overall quality is probably better, mostly because you rarely see unfocused, bad exposures editors had been forced to use.

But the overwhelming number of photos you see in today's papers are shot around 40mm...greatness happens at 24mm, with some 180mm thrown in. Great photojournalism is getting close, yet having depth. Few reporters have the time or desire or skill to execute this with a camera. Declining ad revenue has been the killer. But digital photography took away jobs, too.

It is what it is. I'm not making any judgment regarding ebooks. I will always aspire to have a hardcover in my hand, or I won't be happy. But that's me, not you. Neither of us is wrong.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I think everyone of us here dreams of a day seeing our work on a book shelf or store somewhere. The idea of e-books, however, scares me to no end. Not only does it undermine the work of legitimate authors (any idiot can publish a PDF and sell it for e-book readers without any editing or publisher backing), but it makes me worry about the future of hard copy books.

Is the Kindle just the latest e-book fad waiting for the bubble to burst so real books can come back in and re-take the throne, or is this a legitimate danger to legitimate writers and those that want their work to be published in real books?


So far, print books still have the throne. I believe it will be a long time before they lose it. Think of print books as the king, and Kindle books as the queen. Looked at this way, it's not a bad deal for anyone.
 
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