Obama calls Blacks "a mongrel people." Say what?

nighttimer

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President Obama appeared on The View the other day and observed African-Americans "are sort of a mongrel people." :Wha:

NEW YORK — President Obama waded into the national race debate in an unlikely setting and with an unusual choice of words: telling daytime talk show hosts that African-Americans are “sort of a mongrel people.”

The president appeared on ABC’s morning talk show “The View” Thursday, where he talked about the forced resignation of Agriculture Department official Shirley Sherrod, his experience with race and his roots.


When asked about his background, which includes a black father and white mother, Obama said of African-Americans: "We are sort of a mongrel people."

"I mean we're all kinds of mixed up," Obama said. "That's actually true of white people as well, but we just know more about it."

The president's remarks were directed at the roots of all Americans. The definition of mongrel as an adjective is defined as "of mixed breed, nature, or origin," according to dictionary.com.

Obama did not appear to be making an inflammatory remark with his statement and the audience appeared to receive it in the light-hearted manner that often accompanies interviews on morning talk shows.

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My jaw dropped when I heard that. What would be the reaction of Black folks if Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin had said the exact same thing? Or if a member of the Tea Party showed up at a rally with those remarks written on a sign?

You KNOW what the reaction would be. :mob

I can't hold White conservatives to one standard and suddenly go deaf, dumb and blind when a Black liberal says something this...well...DUMB.

I know Obama had no malicious intent when he said it, but the way Jim Webb was jumped on for debunking the idea of "White privilege" doesn't mean he's a racist. He just doesn't like affirmative action programs. Guess what? A lot of White folks don't.

Obama needs to apologize. RIGHT NOW and not a news cycle or two later. You don't need to be a Rush Limbaugh Dittohead or a Fox News freak to know if Obama gets a complete pass on this the charge that the mainstream media covers for Obama and that there is a double racial standard for liberals and conservatives really sticks.

Maybe he's been hanging around Joe Biden too long, but this is the kind of brain fart I'd expect from him, not Obama. My two kids are NOT mongrels. I get it that there are few if any blue bloods in this melting pot society, but man, he really could have stated that so MUCH better.
 

donroc

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Join the club. We Jews have been called that too, a mongrelized mix of Hitties, Idumeans, and Khazars.

Hell, perhaps the only "pure" people are the Kallikaks and the Jukes. Anyone care to join them?
 

aadams73

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Hmm, I'm a mixture of Greek, Kiwi, Scottish, English, German, and god only knows what else, and I refer to myself as a mongrel all the time. Most people are some kind of blend.

So BFD, basically.

ETA: I think you're looking for offense where there is none.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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"I mean we're all kinds of mixed up," Obama said. "That's actually true of white people as well, but we just know more about it."

What does he mean by "we" here? We black people know more about white people being mongrels? Or we black people know more about black people being mongrels?

America is a nation of mongrels. That's why we're called a melting pot. "Give us your tired, your poor, your huddles masses yearning to be free..."

Considering I'm German, Russian, Finnish, and Slovanian, I feel I can speak for all mongrels. :D

Except Haggis. He's a different breed of mongrel.
 

DeleyanLee

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My ex is Black (his word for himself). When his sister did the geneology for both parents, as far back as she could, she came up with ancestors from four different African countries and three different European countries. The total number isn't that much different from my own European background.

From what my late ex-grandmother-in-law told me, there's a lot of white blood mixed in with most American Blacks (again, their word for themselves). When I heard about Obama's statement, that's what I thought about. It isn't about blue-bloods, it's about people just off the boat immigrants--that whole American melting pot of many/all nations I was taught was one of the strengths of the country.

My family says "Heinz 57 variety" when talking about our ancestry. My kids called themselves "zebras" when they were young and use "mixed" or "Black" now.

If that's how he sees himself and his race, it's truthful, if not glamorous. That, I can respect.
 

donroc

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Most of us are of mixed origins by choice of our parents and grandparents, but go back a few generations beyond that ( and perhaps not even that), and we all know that rape was the tribal sport of conquerors.
 

Toothpaste

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I think nighttimer you are using the wrong definition for mongrel. He's not comparing pure breeds vs mongrels as in a class thing. He's saying that almost all Americans are mixed ethnicities, which is what a mongrel is.

I'm a mongrel (though Canadian), part Danish, part Eastern European.

I think you are reading the sentiment wrong. I think it's a nice idea personally. It means we all have more in common than not. North Americans have that as a very unique quality. When living in England it was amazing to me that people could trace their roots back to William the Conqueror. In North America we are mixed breeds.

But those are the best breeds, they are the ones that survive, they tend to be the healthiest and are not, you know, inbred :) .

Seriously, he wasn't being racist. He was talking about everyone. And he's said this before, and always with pride. If the word itself turns you off, that's cool, but don't then turn it around to be Obama's fault that with his very positive intentions he was trying to intentionally hurt you with it.
 

Amadan

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President Obama appeared on The View the other day and observed African-Americans "are sort of a mongrel people." :Wha:

My jaw dropped when I heard that. What would be the reaction of Black folks if Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin had said the exact same thing? Or if a member of the Tea Party showed up at a rally with those remarks written on a sign?

I get what you're saying, and I know that intentions don't necessarily absolve someone of the impact of their words.

That said, I think that not only intent but context matters. It's difficult to imagine any context in which Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin could refer to black people as "mongrels" innocuously. But when a black man refers to his own family and people as mongrels -- as many people do, using the literal meaning of the word and not the pejorative -- I really don't think it's the same thing.

Most Americans would consider themselves "mongrels" if you asked. But most Americans would also take offense if, say, a European said that Americans are mongrels. Because the context and meaning would be totally different. Some words do take on an entirely different significance depending on who is using them and in what situation.
 

kuwisdelu

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I'm a mongrel, too. American Indian, Polish, and Swedish.

He made it reasonably clear what he meant. I'm cool with it.
 

nighttimer

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I think nighttimer you are using the wrong definition for mongrel. He's not comparing pure breeds vs mongrels as in a class thing. He's saying that almost all Americans are mixed ethnicities, which is what a mongrel is.

I'm a mongrel (though Canadian), part Danish, part Eastern European.

I think you are reading the sentiment wrong. I think it's a nice idea personally. It means we all have more in common than not. North Americans have that as a very unique quality. When living in England it was amazing to me that people could trace their roots back to William the Conqueror. In North America we are mixed breeds.

But those are the best breeds, they are the ones that survive, they tend to be the healthiest and are not, you know, inbred :) .

Seriously, he wasn't being racist. He was talking about everyone. And he's said this before, and always with pride. If the word itself turns you off, that's cool, but don't then turn it around to be Obama's fault that with his very positive intentions he was trying to intentionally hurt you with it.

I'm not questioning his positive intentions, Toothpaste. I know what he was trying to say. I'm questioning two things: his clumsy usage of a volatile word that has been used historically to demean and degrade people just like Barack Obama and the fact that had any non-Black politician said it they would be backing away from the remark like it was radioactive.

When Obama uttered that word it sounded strangely familiar. Going to You Tube, I found the reason why and if you fast-forward the video to just shy of the five minute mark you too can share in the rapture of enlightenment.

We are a nation of mutts and not thoroughbreds. There are precious few blue bloods among us whose bloodline can be described in any way as "pure" and that probably doesn't bug most folks.

But double standards do bug me because I've called out enough people for their relaxed standards and obvious hypocrisy. I know quite well if a Palin, Limbaugh, O'Reilly or anyone on the Right side of the political spectrum had said African-Americans are a mongrel people, they'd be marinated, roasted and served up as an example of the worst kind of racial insensitivity.

I get Obama's point just fine, Toothpaste. Do you get mine?
 

MattW

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I'm not questioning his positive intentions, Toothpaste. I know what he was trying to say. I'm questioning two things: his clumsy usage of a volatile word
If reputation is to be beleived, he a masterful public speaker (when scripted). Either the word was selected intentionally, or he may be a little more clumsy unprompted than many would be willing to accept.

and the fact that had any non-Black politician said it they would be backing away from the remark like it was radioactive.
Like you said, potential for a serious double standard. But it will not be how Obama reacts, but how pro-Obama pundits and/or apologists will react.
 

Toothpaste

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I get Obama's point just fine, Toothpaste. Do you get mine?

Yes. I just disagree with your point.

You see hypocrisy, I don't. You see Obama as referring only to blacks, I watched the show as it was airing and saw him refer to all americans. If someone like Limbaugh said that blacks are mongrels, yup I would see it as an offense. Mostly because every american is a mongrel, and to just say blacks means you are trying to make a negative statement. But Obama mentioned himself first, and then all americans next. He did it then and there, not in a further apology, not as back peddling, and I have heard him in other interviews refer to americans as mongrels before. It's something he has embraced, maybe it was even a conscientious choice to take back that word, like the Gay/Lesbian community taking back of the word "queer".

Maybe you should watch the actual clip and see if you still feel as vehement about it. Truly, context is everything.

Just for the record, I don't worship the man. When he said that thing on one of the late night talk shows about how bad he was at sports that he probably couldn't even play in the special olympics I thought that was bad form, and a bad mistake.

I just disagree with you about this situation. But I understand your point.
 

Vince524

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I think he could have phrased it better, but all in all I'm not about to loose sleep over it. Is there a double standard. Has been for years. But this isn't where I'd pick the battle, where no offense was meant.
 

robeiae

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What does he mean by "we" here? We black people know more about white people being mongrels? Or we black people know more about black people being mongrels?
Don't know, but you've captured the real problem, imo.

The mongrel thing doesn't bother me, since Obama is right: we--all of us--are all mixed up. Sure, there are some exceptions, but for the most part humans are always willing to breed--one way or the other--no matter their individual backgrounds.

But "we," as in "we black people" and "those white people"? Yeah, that's the ticket to a post-racial world. Keep those lines clearly drawn. Can't have any mixing...
 

DeleyanLee

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But "we," as in "we black people" and "those white people"? Yeah, that's the ticket to a post-racial world. Keep those lines clearly drawn. Can't have any mixing...

Which is exactly why I hate all the "hyphen-Americans". Keep those racial lines clearly drawn and thick and call anyone who forgets them a racist and insensitive.

Sorry for the derail.
 

robeiae

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Which is exactly why I hate all the "hyphen-Americans". Keep those racial lines clearly drawn and thick and call anyone who forgets them a racist and insensitive.

Sorry for the derail.
'Taint no derail, imo. It's the real issue and has been such for a long, long time.
 

Mr. Anonymous

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It's not just the choice of words that is important, but also what the person using the words is trying to convey.

Many words can be used either positively or negatively. I do not believe that the president meant anything negative in his usage of mongrel (though it may not be the word I would have used. Kind of ugly sounding, to my mind.)
 
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Maxinquaye

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Heh.

Italian-American
German-American
Greek-American

but not

Ethiopian-American
South-African-American
Congolese-American
Burundi-American

just

African-American

Even if the Congolese and the Ethiopians are as different culturally and ethnically as the Irish and the Kirgiz.
 

Zoombie

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I like the idea behind his words. I don't like the word so much. Mongrel brings too many bad thoughts up.

Why not...I dunno, mult-cultural?
 

Paul

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President Obama appeared on The View the other day and observed African-Americans "are sort of a mongrel people." :Wha:

My jaw dropped when I heard that. What would be the reaction of Black folks if Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin had said the exact same thing? Or if a member of the Tea Party showed up at a rally with those remarks written on a sign?

You KNOW what the reaction would be. :mob

I can't hold White conservatives to one standard and suddenly go deaf, dumb and blind when a Black liberal says something this...well...DUMB.

I know Obama had no malicious intent when he said it, but the way Jim Webb was jumped on for debunking the idea of "White privilege" doesn't mean he's a racist. He just doesn't like affirmative action programs. Guess what? A lot of White folks don't.

Obama needs to apologize. RIGHT NOW and not a news cycle or two later. You don't need to be a Rush Limbaugh Dittohead or a Fox News freak to know if Obama gets a complete pass on this the charge that the mainstream media covers for Obama and that there is a double racial standard for liberals and conservatives really sticks.

Maybe he's been hanging around Joe Biden too long, but this is the kind of brain fart I'd expect from him, not Obama. My two kids are NOT mongrels. I get it that there are few if any blue bloods in this melting pot society, but man, he really could have stated that so MUCH better.


Intent is all


It's all about context.

Usually.

Except when the context would diminish the outrage for any reasonable person.

That's what context means, hence the diminished outrage - yup, because of context.

no idea were your unhappiness coming from here NTimer. I'd would have expected the nutter crew to jump on this, not your good and aware self.
 

Jcomp

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But "we," as in "we black people" and "those white people"? Yeah, that's the ticket to a post-racial world. Keep those lines clearly drawn. Can't have any mixing...

Eh. He is mixed. Maybe it wasn't precisely sensitive language he was using, but I see it as no harm and no foul.

Even if the Congolese and the Ethiopians are as different culturally and ethnically as the Irish and the Kirgiz.

I don't think many black folks bother to trace it far enough back to such specifications. I always think it's kind of cool when white people can trace their ancestry back to some family crest or old European town or castle or what have you. I dated an Irish gal once and she knew her history off the top of her head going way, way back. It was most impressive.

Likewise with many Latinos I've met, and some Asian-American folks as well.