The Bouncy Castle in Space

suki

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Hey all. Great idea for a thread.

I generally write YA, but I read a lot of MG. :)

I completely understand those of you saying you find many books written for the adult market less engaging. I'm in an adult book group, which forces me to read at least 10-12 adult books a year, and I usually voluntarily read a few more adult books each year. I have a theory as to why so many feel less tight and engaging than the MG and YA books we read.

I think that in the adult market, it's ok, and sometimes even encouraged, to show off your prose skill and style, and so sections/sentences/paragraphs that don't really move the story forward but are lovely/well-written/etc. get to stay for showoff/artistic value. Whereas in the YA and MG market you'll hear more often editors and agents say, "this is lovely and well-written, but is it necessary?"

Also, I see more books that seem to have sections/paragraphs included because the author did lots of research and is essentially geeking out on the subject - whereas, again, I think more MG and YA editors/agents would ask "Why does the reader need this? Is it organic for the character to be thinking/saying this?"

~suki
 

EagerReader

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Judy - I just went through this earlier this year. Things to brace yourself for:

1 - He will drive too close to the curb-side and you will imagine a long row of parked cars bearing the scratch mark of your door handle. But he will tell you you are imagining things because you are just not used to being on that side.

2 - You will need dramamine. The starts and stops can be a little jarring after a while.

3 - Actually, change that dramamine to a heavy sedative, and everything will be fine. And even if it's not fine, you won't care.

Good luck!

That is excellent advice, I'll take it too. My oldest should have been driving over a year ago, but he likes his taxi too much. Now that he'll be going to COLLEGE, he really needs to get driving. Before his younger brother does!

Good luck with it, Jud!

Hey all. Great idea for a thread.

I generally write YA, but I read a lot of MG. :)

I completely understand those of you saying you find many books written for the adult market less engaging. I'm in an adult book group, which forces me to read at least 10-12 adult books a year, and I usually voluntarily read a few more adult books each year. I have a theory as to why so many feel less tight and engaging than the MG and YA books we read.

I think that in the adult market, it's ok, and sometimes even encouraged, to show off your prose skill and style, and so sections/sentences/paragraphs that don't really move the story forward but are lovely/well-written/etc. get to stay for showoff/artistic value. Whereas in the YA and MG market you'll hear more often editors and agents say, "this is lovely and well-written, but is it necessary?"

Also, I see more books that seem to have sections/paragraphs included because the author did lots of research and is essentially geeking out on the subject - whereas, again, I think more MG and YA editors/agents would ask "Why does the reader need this? Is it organic for the character to be thinking/saying this?"

~suki

Aha! I think this rings true.

I recently had a discussion with another writer about the whole "does it move the plot forward" thing. In the adult books we read for our book club, there's a lot of bits that don't seem to do that. There's more meandering.

When writing for children I think you just have to keep things relevant to keep a young reader's attention.
 

MsJudy

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Thanks for the good wishes everyone. He'll be taking the required Driver's Ed course from a professional, but then...yeah, it's me and my 17-year-old stick-shift Honda Civic. Oh, if only I could sell a book soon! My salary is adequate for everything but a new car.

He's a pretty good, mellow, responsible kid, so I'm not too worried. Except for when he told me, Don't worry, Mom, you won't have to teach me anything. I already know how to drive from watching you.

Oh, my. Wouldn't it be nice to have that kind of confidence???

Suki, I think you're right about adult books having more permission to include passages just because they're interesting or well-written. And let's face it, adults who read have a lot more patience than most kids ever will.

But there's also a huge shift somewhere in there. I just finished OLIVE KITTEREDGE, and it's a great example of the difference. The action is so subtle. Conversations that change people's lives. Tiny details that reveal hidden sides of people's personalities. And it got me wondering... What sort of sorrows and sadnesses and disappointments will my boys have to pass through before they would be able to relate to such a book? Right now, they would find it so boring. But at some point, you have enough regrets of your own to understand what an amazing job Strout did of capturing those life-changing moments.

But I'm their mom. I don't want them to go through sorrows and disappointments and have regrets. So part of me wants them to never, ever be in a place where they can understand a book like that.
 

Kitty Pryde

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Survey: what's your favorite kid summer thing?

Mine is summer camp! Seven summers as a camper, three summers as a counselor :D I miss it so badly!

Ice cream truck when it's viciously hot out is a close second!
 

jvc

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The ice cream van coming around when it's blazing hot has got to be at or near the top. If you're talking about what 'was' my favourite thing about summer as a kid, it was staying at my grandparents house for a couple of weeks.
 

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Roller skating late at night with all the neighborhood kids. Wow, haven't thought about that in years.
 

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Lying on the hot driveway with the neighborhood kids and watching for shooting stars. And going to the neighborhood pool party at the end of summer.
 

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Playing in the swimming pool. Our dog would even get in with us. He was a Norwegian Elkhound, way too much fur for Southern California, so he'd climb in and stand on the step to cool off. Oh, and one year a family of frogs moved in. They'd swim around in the hot tub at night. You'd think the water would be too warm for them, but they loved it. The cat would sit on the edge of the pool, his tail dangling in the water, trying to figure to how to catch them without getting his toes wet...

And camping. Loved it as a kid, love it now.

And amusement parks. I love me a good rollercoaster!
 

Smish

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Giant trampolines. They're even better than bouncy castles. :D
 

MJWare

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How come no one is using the bouncy castle???

Well, I've got a question that probably doesn't warrant it's own thread:
Do kids still say totally? I don't mean like, "totally bodacious dude."
I'm talking more, "That totally sucked."

I think I've heard my nieces say it, they didn't use it over this weekend, so I'm not sure.
I'm guessing it's almost part of the vernacular now?
 

Smish

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Kids totally say totally.

But I don't think I've heard one say bodacious dude, well, ever. :D
 

MsJudy

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I'd say it's more of a regional/generational thing. It's not the current Word To Use.

I hear skater boys use it still. But not so many girls.

I think it's one of those that a certain kind of character might use, but I wouldn't overdo it.
 

sissybaby

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Lifelike Characters

I have another question for the bouncy castle gang. I mentioned it over in my brother's blog, but I'm not sure he understood the original question.

Everything I've written so far has human characters that seem very human to me - maybe because they are my people.

Some of the MG books I read have human-type characters - I mean, they are supposed to be humans, and they act like people any of us may know.

But then there are the books that have characters with human traits, but are written in such a way that you know you'd never run across someone like them. I'm not saying they are not real, I become totally absorbed in them as I read the stories.

But how does an author go about doing this? One example would be the Aunts in the Island of the Aunts. They are obviously human people, but they are so not at the same time = if that makes any sense.

Is it their quirks? Their over-the-top ridiculousness?

Possibly they are completely real to the author, such as mine are to me, but I'm wondering if that is the intent. Maybe they want them to seem unreal in some way so as to be less frightening. Kind of like some of the characters in Coraline, or Lemony Snickets' books.

This is a question that I've wondered about because I would love to create characters like these, but I've never explored how to go about it. My characters may seem unreal to readers, too.

Any thoughts? Or am I just dense?
 

Kitty Pryde

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I think you take one or two traits and blow them up way past normal proportions, and let those two traits be most of their personality, to create that type of character. That way, they are LIKE people and yet not like real people. And also, really, those types of characters REPRESENT something specific, so you let them stand in for whatever concept/idea/thing they represent.

Like the button-eye parents in Coraline--they REPRESENT what Coraline supposes might be the parents she wants, the really awesome ones who fulfill her immediate wants. They're unrealistic in order to act as a foil for her REAL parents, whom she needs to realize are good and love her and give her what she actually needs.
 

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Thanks so much, Kitty, you explained it exactly the way I needed it in order to understand.

Now if I could just DO that!
 

MsJudy

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A chip off the old block!!!

I just have to share with you guys, 'cause I know you'll understand.

My 11-year-old was voted by his fifth-grade class "Most Likely To Write A Scifi Novel!"

I'm so proud...

I'm also thrilled because this kid is...well...kind of quirky. Or maybe really, really quirky. So the fact that he has collected a group of friends who appreciate his dark and twisted sense of humor and his tenuous grasp of reality makes me happy. And relieved.
 

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Judy - congratulate your son for me. What an accomplishment!

It's hard to be the one who stands out. As a mother, it's also very hard to see that your kid is the one who stands out - especially if they want to fit in.

But we all have our strengths.

Your post is timely for me because I just began reading A Wrinkle in Time. Talk about some quirky kids!
 

SheilaJG

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Thanks for sharing, Judy, that's a great thing. As a mom who worries about her kids ALL THE TIME, I know how wonderful it is to get that kind of feedback.

And it reminded me of an episode of Modern Family, where the gay uncle is consoling the rather quirky Manny after some kids called him weird. I can't remember the line, but the gist of it is, kids try so hard to be like each other and fit in, but later in life, the quirky ones get their revenge because when they get older, everyone wants to be quirky to set themselves apart. That's really butchering the scene, but that's the best I can do.

And he's lucky to have a mom like you.
 

Kitty Pryde

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My apartment has been invaded by BOYS! My little nephews are here, age 11 and 13. They are adorable and only slightly sullen. Last night the little one asked to borrow a charger for his iTouch and for the password to the wireless internet, and I successfully restrained myself from a "You kids today, with your crazy newfangled gadgets!!" speech and just gave it to him :) Today we're going to Six Flags Magic Mountain. I think roller coasters are wretched but it is Family Togetherness Time.
 

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My apartment has been invaded by BOYS! My little nephews are here, age 11 and 13. They are adorable and only slightly sullen. Last night the little one asked to borrow a charger for his iTouch and for the password to the wireless internet, and I successfully restrained myself from a "You kids today, with your crazy newfangled gadgets!!" speech and just gave it to him :) Today we're going to Six Flags Magic Mountain. I think roller coasters are wretched but it is Family Togetherness Time.

Ha! boy, can I relate... My sons are 11 and 15. Yes, "only slightly sullen" is considered pretty good when they're that age.

I'm off to take my 2 plus a friend camping at Big Sur today. 3 teenager boys, a freezing river and a roaring fire...

wish me luck!
 

MsJudy

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Okay, someone needs to do a study about hot water's effect on creativity. Anybody else get their best ideas while taking a shower?
 

jvc

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I just have to share with you guys, 'cause I know you'll understand.

My 11-year-old was voted by his fifth-grade class "Most Likely To Write A Scifi Novel!"

I'm so proud...

I'm also thrilled because this kid is...well...kind of quirky. Or maybe really, really quirky. So the fact that he has collected a group of friends who appreciate his dark and twisted sense of humor and his tenuous grasp of reality makes me happy. And relieved.
Hey Judy, big congrats, great achievement. :)
My apartment has been invaded by BOYS! My little nephews are here, age 11 and 13. They are adorable and only slightly sullen. Last night the little one asked to borrow a charger for his iTouch and for the password to the wireless internet, and I successfully restrained myself from a "You kids today, with your crazy newfangled gadgets!!" speech and just gave it to him :) Today we're going to Six Flags Magic Mountain. I think roller coasters are wretched but it is Family Togetherness Time.
Oh boy, congrats to you too for restraining yourself from that speach. :D

Did you enjoy the roller coasters? :D
 

jvc

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Okay, someone needs to do a study about hot water's effect on creativity. Anybody else get their best ideas while taking a shower?
I'm finding two things are effecting my writing at the moment. Work and the Heat. Long hours, then too hot and tired to concentrate when I get home.
 

Kitty Pryde

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The roller coasters were meh. There's only one coaster there that I like (the NINJA!). The rest are not really very fun. Also, there was a crazy torrential downpour in the early evening so we left early rather than stay until closing. The kids seemed to enjoy it though.
 

suki

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Okay, someone needs to do a study about hot water's effect on creativity. Anybody else get their best ideas while taking a shower?


Yes, so much so that I now keep a legal pad and pen right outside the bathroom, so that when I get out of the shower with an idea, I don't have to drip through the house looking for something to write it down with.

Last week I got so inspired I hopped out to write the plot point down, and then realized I hadn't washed my hair yet and had to get back into the shower - lol.

~suki