The Daily Rejection

Hmm...Carleree...rep me the name and I'll let you know if that's the one I stumbled on too.

qdsb said:

Hmm...Carleree...rep me the name and I'll let you know if that's the one I stumbled on too.

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There have been at least three that stumped me. It's fine, the queries got through. I just dislike it a whole lot.

hugs to all getting rejected.

I got my first form R yesterday (my first R of the query process, but most of the top agents I'm starting with are no response means no types). I sent three off and by the time I got to number 3, number one had rejected. In a panic, I went back to see if I'd spelled his name wrong or called him "Ms." but I hadn't. Phew!

I very very much miss the days when I could send directly to editors. They liked me. Oodles of personal letters then. (Insert more grumbling old fart nostalgia here.)

Hugs, lorna! There are still some pubs that accept unagented submissions...Have you checked QueryTracker.com's publishers database?

I got an r today to. It was on--well, I can't really call it a partial--just the first 10 pages. I sent a query letter, the agent asked for the first 10, then a week later said no. I have real partials out and two fulls, one that looks promising. Still a bummer though. The r's always make me question what I could do better, when I know how much is just a matter of taste. Oh well.

K--I hear ya. I can't help but wonder if there's something I should change. But it really is a subjective industry...

I got a form R on a full...and then about an hour later got an upgrade from a partial to a full from someone else. I need a drink--preferably something fruity in a big, big glass.

Yay for good news, boo to bad, and cheers for tall, fruity drinks.

I'm horribly off-schedule.

Yesterday I loved my fiction. Today I hate it. I fear it's too long and I've already gone through and pared and pared all I could see. In response to my last beta's comments, I've pushed it up another 1,000 (given the rounding). I feel like I'm putting all this detailed effort into something that no agent will ever sit down and read in full for whatever reason (genre confusion, word count).

Then there is the NF, which I also hate today. I told myself last night I'd wake up knowing where else I could start the story--something that would grab agents in the first 3 to 5 pages. I didn't.

Maybe the 31st has a special rule. Even and odd days are evenly divided in the month up to then, so the 31st is the day to contemplate chucking it all and taking up something constructive like competitive bodybuilding.

I counted them up--13 form Rs in the last week. There aren't enough fruity drinks to save me today.

I hear ya! It's amazing how the latest email is the one that effects you the most. My r today was only from 10 pages. My self confidence hit the pit, when I should be thinking--ok, but other agents had no problem with those pages because they requested partials and fulls from them. AND, I don't have responses back from those yet, so it's not as bad (or as good) as my emotions are telling me. Still this is a frustrating, frustrating ordeal. I'm holding on to the agent who liked my query enough to say he was 'excited to take my MS on vacation' and wanted to know who else was looking at it. I take that as a big positive. Hope...hope...hope...

Carleree said:

I counted them up--13 form Rs in the last week. There aren't enough fruity drinks to save me today.

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Bad, bad week (I'm talking to the week).

Dar, you may need to go for the Yukon Jack. After a while, you'll forget the Rs.

K, I think you're onto something there.

Hathor said:

Bad, bad week (I'm talking to the week).

Dar, you may need to go for the Yukon Jack. After a while, you'll forget the Rs.

K, I think you're onto something there.

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The Rs wouldn't bug me if everything else was going perfect for me. Or even half decent. Still, I did get one partial request this week, so it wasn't all bad. I will survive.

And I have the Olympics to distract me.

I'm trying not to get too discouraged. I still have a bunch of fulls out and my dream agent across the pond is still sitting on my pitch and chapter outline for the revision she wanted. I have hope. Not much, but some.

qdsb, good luck on the full!

Yesterday I loved my fiction. Today I hate it.

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Sending out my Q and personalizing/fiddling with every little comma each time I do, I go back and forth on my opinion of it at about the rate alternating current alternates. I seriously think it's good and betas have liked two weaker versions...but none of that matters in the face of R/silence, and I get quivery doubts.

ouch, carleree, that's a tough week. Best of luck on the ones that are out.

luck to you too kmarshall

Actually, I can't believe that when I look back, it's only been two weeks since the requests for fulls and partials came--not counting the most promising--from last Friday. It feels like ages. And with every R, irrationally, I worry about those fulls and partials. How stupid is that? Those are out there because the agents that requested them got further than the query letter and sample pages. The mind makes no sense sometimes. Even writing this does't help the doldrums. Weird.

Carleree said:

The Rs wouldn't bug me if everything else was going perfect for me. Or even half decent. Still, I did get one partial request this week, so it wasn't all bad. I will survive.

And I have the Olympics to distract me.

I'm trying not to get too discouraged. I still have a bunch of fulls out and my dream agent across the pond is still sitting on my pitch and chapter outline for the revision she wanted. I have hope. Not much, but some.

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Sorry other things aren't going well. No new catastrophes, I hope.

I wish I could be distracted by the Olympics. I clicked on a link to a story about the controversy in the women's epee competition (my kids both fence) and the big results for today's competition were splashed over the page.

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking in this thread for a while, because you all seem to be in the earlyish stages of querying and I just started in June. It's a lonely process, and I'm the only one querying in my critique group, so I thought I'd come here for a bit of commiseration.

I have sent 6 queries so far. Not a great start with 3 form Rs and another "no response means no". The 2 remaining have been out for over a month, so with each day I'm thinking they'll be no responses as well. I know my word count is high and could be a reason for auto-rejects, so I'm spending some time editing it down. I've got it down to about 128K at present, which is still high though HF gets a bit of leeway. And I'm sure I can cut a couple thousand more at least, and plenty more if I cut out a subplot (that I'm fond of).

Anyway -- almost by accident I came across a one line pitch contest last week and entered, and to my great surprise, mine was one of the pitches chosen to send the full. It is a top agency, and they knew my word count at the time of the contest, so at least that didn't scare them away.

Not sure if I should keep sending out at this point, or keep editing the MS down and wait until feedback from the contest. And of course I keep on second guessing my query, because the one line did better! Argh. This is not fun!

BTW -- qdsb, that's a GREAT start!

Good luck to everyone here. I hope you don't mind if I hang around.

c.e.

Welcome, C. E!

Hathor: Yes, new catastrophes. But I will survive. Me and Gloria Gaynor.

New catastrophes, bad. Good that you will survive. (You've given me my mental soundtrack for today. I'm going to start querying the fiction in earnest after tweaking the synopsis. I've reread the book and now love it again. Better get the queries out there before I return to hate, huh?)

C.E. -- hi there! Some of us are in the earliest stage; some aren't. (I exhausted the field for my NF, completely rewrote, and have began anew. I guess I span both categories. That seems to be a problem of mine.)

Will you definitely get feedback from the contest? And if so, when? Generally, you shouldn't hold back from querying just because a full is out. But if you expect useful feedback soonish, it might be worthwhile waiting and spending your time trimming your MS.

I've done the trim thing myself and it isn't fun. But you may be surprised how much you can do if you search for words that might not be needed (just, really, very, etc.) and then go through paragraph by paragraph, line by line (Is it necessary? Can it be rephrased to be shorter? Does every word serve a function?). I cut 13,000 words that way, without touching subplots.

Of course, I may just be a particularly wordy person YMMV Good luck and, again, welcome.

Hi c.e.l! I also say, keeping sending out. Some of the global searches I do that cut down words are for: just, even that, shrugged, nodded, sighed, thought, seemed, -ly, started, began. There was/it was/there were starting a clause can usually be reworded better and shorter.

I got another same-day R yesterday. Trying to keep ten out is hard when they do that! At least this one was a no-response-means-no guy who wrote me a personal and cheerful note--in the face of no real encouragement, I'm taking that as encouragement.
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Thanks for the welcome, Carleree.

Hi Hathor -- Wow, 13K trimmed without cutting subplot? I'm doing a pass like that right now and am going at a rate that should get me 4K by the end. Maybe I'm not being ruthless enough. I know I tend to be wordy, and I tend to over explain, or tell AND show things. I've been working hard to address those. Things are getting tighter as I get closer to the end of the book and my more recent writing. And no, there was no guarantee of feedback nor a timeline for response for that pitch contest. I'll prob send out a new Q today to replace the form R I got on Monday. And it's great that you love your book again. Yes, query while you're on that wave!

Hi lorna w -- excellent trimming suggestions - yes, I do the shrugged/nodded/sighed thing and really need to watch those. I've gotten one same-day R. At least it's over quickly. But how nice for him to write a little note.

Thanks, everyone. Off to send Q#7.

Hi c.e. FWIW, after wondering and stewing over what was wrong with my ms, I hired an independent editor. She spruced everything up and has been in constant contact--above and beyond what I contracted. Hiring an editor is expensive, but worth it. For me it was like golf. I took it up because I liked it, but after a while, I realized I'd never get anywhere unless I took lessons. We need experts to guide us when we're starting out. At least, that's how I look at it. Good luck.

C.e.--welcome! Cutting 13k? Wow! I've read lots of great editing advice, but it still sounds painful to cut that much. If you do cut whole scenes or subplots or lines that are your darlings, remember to save them in an outtakes file! The manuscript I'm querying now originally had a prologue...I took it out but am holding on to it.

Hathor--I hope you're feeling more positive today!

Carleree--no, don't count them! Ouch! But there are requests! You only need one yes!

Lorna--thanks! Same day Rs are discouraging, but it's great that it had a personal note!

K--I get those same insecurities whenever an R comes in.

Hope I didn't miss anyone.

qdsb--I keep what I cut too! Mostly backstory. Who knows--it could end up in another story. Then I think of Peter Jackson and those extended editions. Dreamy sigh. Ah, to fantasize.

Hi Kmarshall and qdsb!

Yes, am keeping any scenes/lines/subplots I cut. So far I have two scenes I cut out whole which my beta said didn't advance the story. IMO they advanced characterization/my MC's relationship with her future husband and showed a couple of my male characters being the manly Spartans they are. So yes, I will save the scenes in case I can put them in later, or for my future author's website to have outtakes with hunky characters.

Thanks so much!

Somewhere on this thread I posted my "way to cut" list. I'll have to look for it. (It also works in reverse for padding )

I found I often made a point more than once, used unnecessary dialogue tags, or started out dialogue with "oh," "okay," "well," etc. when I didn't need to.

Another thing to watch for is overdescribing actions. He shrugged his shoulders. (What else would he shrug?) She walked out the door. (As opposed to the window?) They nodded their heads. (Easier than nodding their elbows.)

The 13,000 word cut job was hard and took a long time. I found that using the "find" function helped me see some things that I otherwise wouldn't. All those -ly words, for one. From legal writing, I had a habit of always using "that" even where it's optional and never, ever using contractions. Those two changes saved me quite a bit.

I concur with the looking at sentences beginning with "there." You can often cut by rewriting, and the sentences end up better, too. Same thing with "it" or use of the passive voice.

One pet flaw of mine is to use progressive tenses when simple ones will do (and I save a word).

There are phrases, too, that often can be cut. Everyone probably has their own offenders. To take one example, "at this time" or "right now" instead of "now." And sometimes it's obvious when you're talking about and you don't even need the "now."

Heck, I should find that list of mine. But first, my task is to work on my synopsis. Maybe someone else happens to remember the post number where I put my list. Or if I'm misremembering and only thought about posting it...

One trick before I go. I use em dashes a lot. Switching from "[space] dash dash [space]" to an actual em dash without spaces saves two words a pop, as far as Word is concerned.

Oh, absolutely, doing a Find for "that" and evaluating whether it was really needed and whether there were better ways to restate it cut about *500* words from my current manuscript.

Another edit for me involved making sure I wasn't being redundant about action, dialogue, and dialogue tags to see if they're all needed (and to see if I'm unnecessarily retelling what the action or dialogue already shows).

Oh, and exposition...I find that description and internal explanation can be trimmed or reworded to maintain the original intent without as much verbiage.

c.e.--I'm sure you've already worked through this, but frequently such characterization by inserting bits and pieces (gestures, responses, etc.) into other, more vital scenes. I frequently have to check my "slow" scenes (eating, traveling, casual conversation, etc.) to see if they're really necessary or if the pertinent parts (character, intent, symbolism, etc.) can be accomplished in more dynamic ways.

Inbox is quiet so far today. I re-queried an agent I hadn't gotten an auto-response from when I first queried in June. And my day job is about to ramp back up so I'm tempted to send out another handful of queries while I have the time. Then I'll really need to sit back and let whatever happens, happen. querytracker.com is both a gift from the gods and a torture device straight from hell.

I hope everyone gets some kind of Yes today.