The Daily Rejection

Food, booze, and shared misery. Pull up a chair.

luxisufeili said:

Oh man there's food on this thread, too?

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Best part? We like to share. Unfortunately it's not just food and drink. We also share misery. Welcome to the mix

Analog rejected my new short story.

Wonder if they balked at the word "tits?"

Speaking of misery, I came home from a wild -- but ultimately successful (for my side) -- baseball game late last night. I was filled with ideas about how I'd tell you that it was all an analogy, you see. You think you're winning, but then you're losing. Then you tie, then you're losing again. Many people bail on you. But you persevere and win on a wild pitch.

But forget that. I had to look at my email, didn't I? Stupid, stupid Hathor. Another agent I requeried yesterday couldn't wait to tell me that I truly suck. I promise never again to complain about agencies going different directions, the state of the market, or how subjective this whole business is.

Let's see. I'm linear. Not quite sure what that means in this context, but it's apparently a bad thing. I explain what happened and how I felt, but I didn't narrate. Huh? Again, I'm clueless.

Agent wanted to hear how my daughter felt being told she was learning-disabled. Only that didn't happen until she was in sixth grade. At the end of chapter one (what I provided), she was a completely nonverbal toddler.

I include details about me and my life that aren't going to interest anyone, he said. Other agents told me to make this all more personal. What details I include are there for one or more reasons. But there I go, being linear again, I guess.

The worst thing, though, is that I lack a "strong narrative voice." I have no idea what the problem is, but I don't think it's fixable.

I went to bed, figuring I'd just shred and delete all the drafts of the NF come morning. The fiction, too, since I don't have a strong narrative voice. All I'd accomplished in the past four years is weight gain from sitting on my butt in front of my computer.

I still don't know what to do. My skills of rationalization are failing me. At what point do I accept I don't have what it takes?

And what's worse, I now have Roger Miller's "Dang Me" going through my head. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1s7HHnnjU4&feature=related I yearn for "Muskrat Love."

I'm trying for a positive, here. Uh, at least it's not "You Can't Rollerskate in a Buffalo Herd" or any of the other of his delightful ditties that, decades later, I can't erase from my mind.

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Sorry for the Rs, Carleree and Shadow_Ferret.

I am no longer waiting till noon to drink. I spiked my morning coffee. Yesterday was a terminably bad day for me, and it seems to have carried on to today as well. No news on the query front for me, or on the submissions I have out. Instead it's all personal crap I cannot cope with.

I'm sorry for your R, Hathor. For what it's worth, I think you write well. But what do I know? *passes you a drink*

We should all have a hoary night instead.

Thanks for the drink and for liking my writing. Perhaps I'm an acquired taste

It's bad when I want to go for Scotch and it's 1:00 in the afternoon, I suppose. But I have to get over my linearity somehow, right? I still don't know what he wants. Lyric prose? Something Faulkner-esque? I'm incapable of either.

But no, he wants strong. Maybe Hemingway?



Perhaps the lesson from last night's game was the one drawn by a Mets fan I overheard on the Metro: "Why couldn't we have just lost in nine innings in a normal way? That wouldn't have been so bad. But no -- they had to take the lead, lose it, take it again, and then lose in a humiliating fashion. They exist to rip our hearts out."

Could it be that's the problem we're facing with agents based in New York? They're Mets fans and so want to spread the suffering around. (Or Yankees fans that are used to taking on only proven talent.)

Or, in terms you can understand, my dear friend from the Great White North, they're Rangers fans.

Oh Hathor. That's fucked up. That's allI've got. that's FUCKED UP. You can do what you like. you can write what you like. You will find a way to make it work. Don't let someone shit on your work. You're stronger, you'll figure out what works for you.

HERE: my blog post about what happens when you let someone shit on your work. http://baellings.wordpress.com/2012...les-from-drama-school-the-story-of-the-spook/


And then listen to this. Once a day. I believe in you. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1kl57_destiny-s-child-survivor_music

I'm more of a Gloria Gaynor sort of survivor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Faf1ch7Q9XE

Destiny's Child in bikinis -- too painful. I suppose I can avert my eyes. I never, ever looked like that. Even further away these days, now that I've spent four years with my laptop.

Oh don't mind me with the weight thing. I have a family wedding this Saturday and everything I try on makes me look like an old lady or a pregnant one. As I asked my husband, "How could you let me get fat?" (He responded, "How 'bout them Mets?")

I appreciate the sentiment, though. I believe in you, too. I will remind you of your pep talk the next time you try to dismiss your work.

I've been working on my new query letter. A good sign, I suppose.

While my personal life is still crap, I did get a very encouraging email from the agent who rejected my revised partial. She said she truly believes my work is "special" and the changes I made give it an "undeniable hook" she believes the editors are looking for especially since the YA suspence/thriller genre is hot, hot, hot right now.. If she had more time, she'd want to read the whole thing. So, if I haven't found an agent by the fall, she'd like to look at it then.

Meh. It's something. After all the crap I've been dealing with over the last 24 hours, I'll take it.

Chin up, Hathor. I've had agents say nasty stuff to me, too. And then I get something like what I wrote above. It's subjective. Someone will love your work.

Got another R today--not a bad one really, just wrong for the agent. He was good enough to say he thought another agent would have a 'fun time' with it So getting closer. Maybe.

Sorry about the recent crap, Carleree. Feel free to share. Yes, what you heard is reason to hope.

For someone to like my work, they first have to read it. You want to know what my daughter thought? How about reading up to the point where she's talking? I know; I'm hopelessly linear. Well, excuse me.

I must be coming out of it. I'm lashing out, rather than in And the rationalizations are beginning to gel. Let's see, a number of folks I originally queried (who didn't ask for pages) were put off by my old query and the hefty word count. I've fixed those two things, and so my only worry now is looking good for my author photo.
There we go.

I have three questions for you experienced fiction-querier types.

I've found an agent who sounds perfect for all my work. I haven't even queried her before. I'm in love, I tell you.

Anywho, the firm, bless its heart, specifies that memoir is to be queried like fiction. One requirement is a "brief
bio."

The practice for bios in nonfiction proposals is to put them in the third person. Is fiction the same or do I go with first?

Second, how brief is brief?

Third, is humor frowned upon? My work does try for that in places. Edit: I mean humor in the bio itself.

I can relate to that whole, why-did-I-check-my-email thing. Checked mine on the way out the door with the kids, and found a completely unhelpful pass about two sentences long. This, after being sought out by said agent, replying promptly, answering questions, and providing MS. I know agents don't OWE a critique, but after all that this person left me pretty cold. They could've provided a few words explaining the pass. Honestly it felt like a form R. gaaaaaahhh

That stinks, I agree. Carleree, baked goods available? Q, chocolate martinis at the ready?

Or does this call for Yukon Jack? Hey, that's what I'm missing here. I have a new agent love, a new query, a new synopsis. And another chance tonight for my team to beat up on the Mets. Cheers! *shares with all who are up for a hoary night*

Hathor said:

I have three questions for you experienced fiction-querier types.

I've found an agent who sounds perfect for all my work. I haven't even queried her before. I'm in love, I tell you.

Anywho, the firm, bless its heart, specifies that memoir is to be queried like fiction. One requirement is a "brief
bio."

The practice for bios in nonfiction proposals is to put them in the third person. Is fiction the same or do I go with first?

Second, how brief is brief?

Third, is humor frowned upon? My work does try for that in places. Edit: I mean humor in the bio itself.

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Brief bio means one para, and it should be in first like the rest of your query. I believe. Humor should be allowed as it shows voice, which your memoir should also have

Carleree said:

Brief bio means one para, and it should be in first like the rest of your query. I believe. Humor should be allowed as it shows voice, which your memoir should also have

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Thanks, hon, except for that last bit. Perhaps I'll go all experimental and not have a voice. Maybe a graphic novel--in mime. Charades would also work.

Well, drat. Rejection on a full. From dream agent. And so it goes...

I haven't had time to catch up on the thread yet, so ((((hugs)))) to those who need one and Cheers! to those with good news. Fingers crossed for all!

ChelseaWriter said:

Well, drat. Rejection on a full. From dream agent. And so it goes...

I haven't had time to catch up on the thread yet, so ((((hugs)))) to those who need one and Cheers! to those with good news. Fingers crossed for all!

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Sorry, sweetie. Feel free to use a word stronger than drat.

I appreciate the hug.

Hey, Carleree, will they throw me out if I have a second paragraph on my bio? That seems to work much better. Any rule of thumb for number of words? You will be happy that my draft query is 160 words (seriously). I'm embarassed about the length of the query for my previous version. Let's just say...long.

Just started querying my first novel last week, and received my first R today. I also made a mistake in a subsequent query that I noticed right after I hit send, so I'm sure that will be R # 2...

Sigh.

I've been down the rejection road before, with a memoir I wrote, but I'm much more hopeful about this project, so it stings even more.

Hathor, you could probably get by with 2 paras. Word length should be pretty close to what I said for fiction.

Chelsea. I'm so sorry, hon.

As for me, I get to add 2 forms to my list for the day.

I meant word length for the bio. My first draft is actually longer than the query proper. I can trim as necessary to make you proud of me.

Sorry about all reported Rs.

D, what happened ultimately with your memoir? I've got one myself.

My husband just came home from his weekly chess club (yes, we're both geeks) and offered me a lime, coconut, rum concoction. So...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA9OqUuA6a0 Goes so well with just now beating the Mets.

One R on a query today. Sorry to hear about all the Rs today. Hugs, Chelsea, Carleree, Hathor, and anyone I may have missed!!

I guess agents are getting caught up.

Hathor--Those comments on the memoir sound harsh but well-intended. The agent could have just sent a rejection, but it sounds like these comments could result in substantial, significant revisions. I don't write memoir, but I do teach English lit and composition--when I teach the 5-act structure, I point out that it is used Everywhere. So I kind of see what the agent might be getting at involving being too linear (this happened, then that happened, and here's how we dealt with it). For example, if you've watched an episode of the TV show Intervention...or Hoarders, they're factual but still structured dramatically. They offer a dramatic narrative about that person's experience by using a lot of the classic elements of dramatic structure. They start with the primary character at rock bottom (an inciting incident that gets the "intervention" rolling) before they explain how the person got to that point. The audience sees up front what is at stake and then sees how it affects that person and those who love him/her.

This also reminds me of how agents/editors sometimes point out writers starting their stories at the wrong point...how sometimes they need to cut something like the first three chapters of their manuscript because it turned out to be all backstory, and the real "story" doesn't get started until later in the manuscript.

I don't write memoir, but I'm sure it must be gut-wrenching to have a memoir critiqued because it is you. Nothing could be more personal, nothing could lay your heart open to the world more fully.

But I honestly believe the agent means well and wants to help you get past what sound like common writing missteps. Maybe take some time away from the project and later come back to it with a fiction writer's eyes (not to add fiction, but to apply concepts of plot and character to the way you present your story).

Re: bio--If an agent requests a bio separate from the query letter, I write it in 3rd person and include what I would want on a book cover, basically. And I think a separate bio like this could be 2 paragraphs. I would also try to give a sense of my voice (my own voice, even if it's not the voice of the manuscript). If the bio is just part of the query, I write it in first person, treat it like resume info, and limit it to one paragraph.

I appreciate the time you took to comment on my situation.

But (you knew that word was coming, didn't you?): it's hard to rewrite when you don't know what's wrong. Comments I received before were helpful--and inconsistent with what this guy said. For instance, the book once did start at the moment of crisis. Other agents hated that and said this story needed to start at the beginning (which I believe I've now identified). I've played around with different points, but they require too much back story and don't work as well.

If it is simply he thinks my book should start at a different point (with more flashback that what I already have), he might have said so. And specified the point. If certain details should be cut, tell me which ones, or at least give me one example, for pity's sake. What I've included in chapter one are the things that other agents wanted to see, ones that indicate character, theme, foreshadowing, etc. (Or at least are intended to.) There is a story arc. Nothing was included simply because it happened.

I've taken a great deal of time away from the project to study/write fiction. I utilized what I learned in rewriting. I'm not claiming the book is perfect. But what he said gave me no clear indication as to what his problem really was or what I might do to fix it. Jargon isn't helpful.

If others have similar comments and manage to explain themselves a bit more thoroughly, I'm sure I'll rewrite, yet again. (At this point, I've lost track of how many drafts I've gone though.) I'm reluctant to hold back on this book now due to the comments of the first agent to read one chapter -- whose comments I do not understand. No amount of time is going to make me into a mindreader.

Wow, I didn't intend an extended diatribe. Obviously, I've been thinking a lot on this subject in the past 24 hours.

I mean no criticism of you. You're obviously a sweetheart, trying to help me. And it probably has helped me to put all this in black and white (or dark gray and light blue).

Hathor--ah, I didn't know the history behind the project. Thanks for explaining. I sympathize!

Carleree--I hope life is kinder today. More kind? I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

Hathor said:

D, what happened ultimately with your memoir? I've got one myself.

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I decided it was not ready, and I'm planning to start re-writing it now that my novel is finished to keep me busy while a query.

Good luck with yours! I read up thread that you're still querying it, and that you've gotten conflicting advice about making changes to it. I'm sorry, that can't be easy to figure out which way to go....but at least they are responding and you're not just getting all form rejections. That must be a good sign, right?