The Daily Rejection

DJ, what's the ellipses standard? I always do them with a space on either side like ... so. I've no idea where i got that, though.

Thanks for the link to the First Nations info. I'll take a look.

For most of these formatting issues, I don't care. I'll do whatever. It just bothers me when folks say that the standard practice is X and anyone who does Y is seen as unprofessional -- and others say the reverse.

Maybe tomorrow I will print out my manuscript and see what I can cut without losing content. If I can get close to 110,000, perhaps that will seem more acceptable. I've read 100,000 as the cutoff for debut novels, but 110,000 and 120,000 as well. Sigh.

There's a reason I liked the blogger who said pages times 250 -- it worked so well for my book.

I don't mind cutting if someone says I'm belaboring something or getting bogged down. However, cutting words just to cut words seems so arbitrary.

I know I'm whining. It helps me feel better before I start doing what I have to do.

That's one of the accepted standards QB, but ellipses are more complicated than that because they often interact with other punctuation. It's a mess, there's three different standards, mine is a bit of each with a little of my own special sauce. I just like it that way and I hope that doesn't annoy any editors too much.

Chicago Manual of Style says: Hello...is anyone there? or Hello? ... (at the end of a sentence)

MLA is: Hello. . .is anyone there? or Hello? . . .

Elements of Typographic Style is as you have it: Hello ... is anyone there? or Hello?...

or EoTS says it's preferred to use the ellipsis character …

So you see, it's a mess. I use my own bastardized version: Hello... is anyone there? or Hello?...

I use ellipses a LOT as I said, but the editor who sent me a pile of notes only commented on inconsistencies in grammar, punctuation etc. She did not say I consistently did it wrong. Prior to my latest edit I had a few spots where I repeated the ellipses and I used the CMS style for those close repeats like "so...very...tired." (at the end of a chapter where my MC is losing consciousness due to blood loss) I've now changed that to "so... very... tired." which is at least internally consistent with other uses of the ellipsis.

As I said, probably not a big deal for most people, but I average at least one ellipsis per page (probably more like two or three). I have more of them than I do question marks or exclamation marks. I mostly use them as a pause in dialogue, but I also use them fairly frequently for a pause in thought like this.

“I... I have to go... Now!” Konrad's legs itched. He yearned to run until he was exhausted. The thought of being prisoner in that laboratory again.... His body twitched uncontrollably.

This reminds me of how I did my endnotes for the NF. There are different styles for psychology, medicine, and law, all of which I cited. I developed my own style, picking out what I found most esthetically pleasing from the three, then stayed consistent.

I don't know if anyone has noticed yet...

For ellipses, I stayed consistent, following what one blogger insists is correct: no spaces within a sentence, but spaces at the end if a sentence drifts off. (If I have to change it all, it wouldn't be hard.) To make up an example, "I...I don't know... How do you think we should do ellipses?"

I think that's actually wrong by all the standards Hathor. An ellipsis is not a signal that a sentence has ended, so an extra period is required.

Hmmm. That's what some people I've read have said could be done. But I haven't personally gone to style guides, since I'm never quite sure which one to use.

I probably use the device too much anyway...

See

Well, off to chop, chop, chop.

Hathor, in your example you could also lowercase the "how" after the ellipsis to make it more like a stream-of-consciousness thought versus a new sentence. It's kind of a run-on then, but that's the point of them, right?

I use ellipses more than average, too, I'm noticing on my latest read-through. And I caught a few cases where I did them with no spaces, so i had two styles going on. Visually, I like the spaces on each side. I think it looks a little cluttered without them. How's that for style guide logic?

Carleree said:

Another R today. This one suggested I visit the query shark. Umm, listen agent lady, I've got two other agents who disagree with your assessment of my kickass query letter.

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I think I got an R from the same agent. Complete with the highlighting. Same day I also got a partial request and a full request from the same query. I wanted to write her back and highlight the highlighting and say "Duh."

But. I didn't.

I got a partial request from an agent last week who requires snail mail for material subs. Because I live overseas, I had it printed/delivered via Office depots online shipping service.

After I sent it, I sent him a confirmation:

"Thank you for requesting further material from ********. I currently live in *********, so I have arranged to have the package printed and mailed through office depot's online printing service. Apparently, they will call you after they have completed printing in order to confirm an appropriate delivery time. I hope that is okay.

Then he replied:

Dear ******, I didn't realize you live abroad....about Office Depot: do you mean they will deliver it to me, or will I have to pick it up? I prefer not to have to travel to pick up material. Had you asked me first, I would have provided you with alternate instructions.Best, *****

So I replied:

Dear *****,

They will deliver it. In fact, I was surprised to find out after checkout that they would call you at all. The service was advertised as a simple print and delivery. Which, hopefully, it will be. Previously, agents I have contacted regarding exceptions to their snail mail subs because I am abroad have said that they cannot make an exception. So I assumed...

So then he said:


Great, then we are all set. I always think it's a good idea to let agents know when one lives abroad, as there are logistics some of us need to consider. Thanks again, and I'll get back to you after I have reviewed the material.


Does anyone else think this agent seems like er...not the shinyest fork in the drawer?

I kinda wanted to write him back and be like, "Dude, nevermind."

carefulwithwords said:

I think I got an R from the same agent. Complete with the highlighting. Same day I also got a partial request and a full request from the same query. I wanted to write her back and highlight the highlighting and say "Duh."

But. I didn't.

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With the highlighting? Now I feel better.

I didn't respond. Instead I ranted about it here

Rant away. That's one of the chief benefits of this thread.

At times I wished this forum was password protected so we can vent and throw out our empty insults, but without worrying. We do a good job though, not calling anyone out by name.

Sydneyd said:

At times I wished this forum was password protected so we can vent and throw out our empty insults, but without worrying. We do a good job though, not calling anyone out by name.

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That's what PMs are for

You guys!!! Quiet, I'm studying, all about, commas! I am, doing really really, well, right Carleree? ,,,,

",,,,"=awesome

pollymilton said:

You guys!!! Quiet, I'm studying, all about, commas! I am, doing really really, well, right Carleree? ,,,,

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Impressive, even.

pollymilton said:

Hey Quick! Hope your pelvis (oouch even typing that) is better - were you skiing? Whistler?

Take your time, and thanks for the kind words. Didn't pass round in contest, but made some fun contacts and that's the bigger issue for me.

https://twitter.com/#!/MrsTomSauter

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Polly, glad you got a lot out of the contest regardless.

Yessss, I was skiing in Whistler! It's one of my favorite places on earth. I so love it there.

No news to report, but did talk to cousin's husband today - they own a distillery and he mis-sent 6 cases of whisky to SEA, and asked if I could go pick it up and "make use" of it. Party in Seattle!!!!

I'll be right over

I wish I lived closer

I've been laboriously cutting words. My background is unfortunate. I've discovered that all those years of not using contractions, ever, has inflated my word count. I'm so used to writing everything in full form I can't see it when I'm reading my work straight through. So I have to use the "find" function for every possibility. Nothing like looking up "had," "would," "will," "not," etc.

Good news is that I've trimmed 6,000 words so far what with adverbial massacre, contracting everything possible, dropping unnecessary words, and so on. I think the next step is to read the book backwards--forwards I tend to look at meaning rather than language.

I think I deserve some of polly's whiskey.

I do live closer, On my way!

Wow, Hathor, that's a huge reduction. You definitely deserve a drink.

Quickbread said:

Wow, Hathor, that's a huge reduction. You definitely deserve a drink.

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I never realized how an extra word or phrase here and there could add up. I haven't dropped that many sentences and no real substance.

I'm writing every search down. I figure I'll need to do similar cuts with everything I write.

And if anyone needs to augment their word count, have I got a list for you!

Hathor said:

I never realized how an extra word or phrase here and there could add up. I haven't dropped that many sentences and no real substance.

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And I bet that everything remaining is getting more concentrated and polished as a result, which is always a great thing.

You guys, am so drunk, please be quiet. All your writing talk...what kind of forum is this, anyway?