The AW Amazon Store
Buy Books by AWers!
Last edited by Elwyn; 08-20-2005 at 02:09 AM. Reason: Added Link
I fell for it last year. :Smack:
It had 2 results:
1. I was out $89
2. One vanity press called me and I gave her my best pitch before she revealed she was vanity. She knew from the change in my voice she was never ever going to hear another word from me. Oh, and a few vanity presses sent me sales stuff.
- the Lily
I have to add my "amen" to this as well. I attend a lot of writers' conferences, and have spoken to a ton of editors, both on the floor and after hours. Three things have consistantly come up.
One, make sure your manuscript is as polished as you can make it before you even being querying agents and editors.
Two, when the time is right, make double-sure your query follows any printed guidelines to the letter.
And three, generally any submissions from folks like you've mentioned are only opened rarely by the slush squad, or not at all. Sad, but there it is.
Oh yeah, for what it's worth, just mention the word "PA" nowadays to anyone in the commerical publishing industry, and then stand back for the assault. Their reputation, as the saying goes, is proceeding them. And it ain't good.
Here's why display sites don't work (and I've been watching them get invented and reinvented for over a decade):
Why would an editor cruise a display site for more slush when their desks are already groaning under piles of slush that was addressed to them by name?
I'm familiar with some display sites that claim sales -- in those cases further investigation shows that while books were displayed there, and were also sold, their display was not relevant. For example a book that was posted on a display site, which they claimed as a sale, was in fact bought out of the slush by an editor who was unaware the site even existed.
Over at Speculations we find, from our own Jaws (speaking of an undoubtedly legitimate board, Publishers Marketplace):
I have been unable to verify the announcement of a single sale through that board that did not involve at least two of:
* A previously published author;
* An AAR-member (or known-qualified-but-chose-not-to-join) agent; and
* Rights other than first print publication.
The thing is many of the Big Christian publishing houses in the USA will NOT accept unagented submissions and their sites specify for unagented authors to post on ecpa or the other big Christian one 'writers edge'. It is not just ecpa etc claiming the glory for themselves. I have spoken (ok emailed) several authors on writers edge and they have been contacted by proper Christian publishers (ones large enough that even I had heard of) with a view to seeing their work..(some have been even accepted albeit the minority it seems). Writer's edge seems to have a better reputation than ecpa as they screen out the rubbish and do not promote everything that gets sent in. They also seem to offer constructive advice.
Last edited by logos1234567; 08-31-2005 at 02:45 AM.
Yes, and in my opinion this is really irresponsible--not only because these publishers are telling authors to spend money for services the publishers themselves don't use (basically, ECPA and others are a virtual slushpile), but because disreputable publishers employ the services as trolling grounds. I've gotten a number of questions from writers who paid for ECPA or Writers Edge listings, and were approached by vanity publishers as a result.Originally Posted by logos1234567
Maybe it is for the most part a slushpile...but I do know for a fact a few of its authors who have been approached by large reputable non-vanity Christian publishing houses asking them to submit and some have been signed.
And yes they will get junk mail from it too, but that does not make it all bad though.
Can you give us any examples? If you're not comfortable giving authors' names, I'd be interested at least to know who the publishers are.Originally Posted by logos1234567
Thomas/Tommy Nelson (who do Christian kids books) and Kregel are two that I remember straight away. My brain's a bit rusty on the others as it was a while ago I asked.
Please help me...Does anyone have any experience with the 1st Edition manuscript service or Writers Edge manuscript service??
I know the website basics about what they are and the fees involved, but does anyone have any yeas or nays on them...
I've read the success stories posted on their websites and looked up some of the authors and they were legit... and published through mainstream christian houses...like moody, Bethany House, and others that are ECPA members where the submissions are available for viewing.
please chime in with your advice...since I am a writer of Christian fiction wanting to submit to the appropriate houses for publication.
Edit your own work. You'll become a better author for it.
please understand that these are tools for making submissions and then being reviewed specifically by Evangelical Christian Publishing Association members who use this site to screen unsolicited manuscripts, and then contact the authors whose work they are interested in directly.
it is not a manuscript EDITING service...however to post on these sites it does cost 79$ and 99$ respectively...and then the manuscript proposals are available for viewing by the ECPA member publishers.
Does anyone have any experience using them or have you heard anything good or bad from those who have?
I have no personal experience with them other than the fact that a friend of mine submitted her work to Writers Edge and nothing ever came of it.
James,Originally Posted by james1611
I can't give you any personal yeas or nays, but I decided, just for the heck of it, google one of the publishers that Writers Edge sends out their packages to (from their website). I chose Multnomah Publishers. I went to Mulnomah and found this publishing policy on that site:
Multnomah Publishers, Inc. is an evangelical Christian publishing house whose imprints include Multnomah Books, Multnomah Fiction, Multnomah Gifts, and Multnomah Kidz.
Unfortunately, Multnomah is no longer accepting unsolicited manuscripts, proposals, or queries by email, phone or mail.
We do, however, continue to accept queries submitted through agents. Consider contacting a literary agent who works with Christian publishers. A list of these agents appears in Sally Stuart's annual Christian Writers' Market Guide.
Which means Writers Edge is sending something to a publisher that only accepts agented mss. I'm wondering if there are other publishers on Writers Edge's list that are similar. In which case, the ms. would just be trashed.
Just my opinion, but from looking at what you'd need to give them for a $95 fee (synopsis, 3 chapters) is what you'd do to send to an agent. So why go through Writers Edge when you can do it yourself?
I haven't checked the other site, but it may be more of the same.
Screw the new blog, I've resurrected my old blog: Writerly Stuff.
I twit, therefore I am?
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. ~Thomas Edison
It took me fifteen years to discover that I had no talent for writing, but I couldn't give it up because by that time I was too famous. ~Robert Benchley
I think it may work a bit differently than that. Most of the publishers I've heard at conferences have said that they have an in-house person responsible for checking WE and FE. True, the publishing house may not accept unsolicited (through the transom) ms, but if the in-house person sees something he wants to pursue he can contact WE or FE about it. In that case, it would be a solicited ms.Originally Posted by JerseyGirl1962
I have been visiting some of the publishers listed as those reviewing the manuscripts that 1st edition recieves...more than a few are nothing more than vanity presses charging big bucks for what you could do yourself at lulu.com for 150$ including distribution.
This is disappointing...while there are some traditionals sprinkled among them...some of the success stories listed were through xulon and places like that, which charge authors to publish and they considered themselves so lucky to have been chosen after paying the 79$ to post the manuscript and then have it "picked up" by a vanity press like xulon.
Just some info i found...anyone else have something good you know about them?
I did find two authors that were signed to traditionals like moody press and AMG, but it seems a long shot.
The best advice being given on this is NOT to pay for these display services. . . save your money and attend Christian writer's conferences where you can meet editors face-to-face. *That* is the best way to make contact and open the door for a future query/proposal.
I looked through the index and tried the promotional section of Preditors and couldn't find anything on these people. Has anyone had any experience with them and what could their possible effectiveness be? it looks to me like you eventually just end up paying for some kind of critique.
I gather from some of the other threads with YADS in them that display sites are just about worthless. So this is really a 95.00 critique site. Since I've got some good beta readers for critiques and I can submit my own work, I think I'll continue doing that.
Writers Edge started in 93. I sent them my first three chapters and $75. What did I know then? Anyway, they gladly took my money, made no comments except they were not going to add me to their list. I don't trust them or any company like this that wants to take my $.
I was also looking into the Writer's Edge. Information about this service came to me with a reply Tyndale House sent me. If Tyndale lists the Writer's Edge as an option for breaking into the market, doesn't that mean they view manuscripts from them?
My greatest reservation about the service is possible "theft" of my manuscript. This is what www.writersedgeservice.com had to say about this FAQ:
How can I be sure someone won't "steal" my idea if I submit it to your service?
Your question about plagiarism is a common one. Most of the writer books, like The Writer's Market, address this so it must be a widespread anxiety. The usual answer you'll hear is that very few ideas are totally unique. What may seem like a unique idea is actually more common than the victim of theft thinks. (There are plot books with supposedly all the available plots for novels!) In other words, what someone thinks is theft of their idea is actually not. For writers, there is common law copyright available without charge or registration; this means you have authority over your work if you can show that you did it at a certain time and place. See the writer reference books for more.
We permit our writer customers to opt out of the web display of their work, just in case they are uneasy with web display. The publishers still get their paper copy of the screened summary. Every month, there are several who don't want their book idea on the web site (or possibly don't want their address on it). Beyond that, I can't think of any way we can protect your idea, once it floats out to the world of publishers.
BikerChick adds her two cents worth!