Western/Fantasy Crossover

cameron_chapman · Mar 24, 2010

I've read a fair amount of fantasy, but considering the sheer number of fantasy works out there, I'm nowhere near as well-read as I wish I was. So I'm turning to everyone here to see if anyone can point me in the right direction.

I came up with an idea for a fantasy/western crossover a couple days ago. The basic premise is a dark fantasy, with a type of dragon "rodeo" that's used for entertainment purposes. There's a sort of frontier vibe to it and there's a sort of "cowboys and Indians" thing going on, too. I've got the basics all mapped out and am really into the idea. (There's plenty of purely fantasy elements to it, too. It's not just a western with dragons instead of horses or anything like that.)

But considering I'm not that well-read when it comes to fantasy, I'm not sure how often this has been done before, what's cliche, and what I should avoid. I know there's plenty of sci-fi/western crossover but I couldn't really find anything that points to there being fantasy/western crossover. There has to be something out there, right?

So if anyone can name off some fantasy novels with a decidedly western influence, please do so. I tried searching on Amazon but came up with nothing. I also checked The Basics thread in this forum but there was nothing there, and I tried searching and still came up with nothing.

Thanks in advance for any help.

BlackMagic528 · Mar 24, 2010

Don't worry about what's been done before. Just write the thing.

All worrying about what's cliche and what's been done before and what's this and what's that is going to do is bring your writing to a crashing halt. And none of it matters.

If you write something from your own mind with your own characters (which I preach constantly that it's the characters that ultimately make the story), then it will be original. Perhaps - in fact, likely - it will bear some similarities to other works, but who cares?

Similarity does not equate to unoriginality.

So, like I said, just write the thing.

sunandshadow · Mar 24, 2010

There have been two or three books which have dragons in a pit fighting/gladiatorial system, but it's not a cliche. I can't think of one with a rodeo, per se. There are some native american fantasies around, but again I don't think any of that is common enough to be a cliche.

I do have to wonder why no one ever seems to do light fantasy any more, *sigh* (I don't like dark fantasy, but don't mind me, there are plenty of people who do.)

cameron_chapman · Mar 24, 2010

Thank you both for the responses. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some huge sub-genre. The first novel I ever wrote was high fantasy, and when I finished it I realized the entire thing was so cliched that it wasn't even worth editing in present form (I'm rewriting it from scratch with only a couple of the original elements). Just want to make sure I don't repeat the same mistakes with this one.

leahzero · Mar 24, 2010

Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" series comes to mind.

bettielee · Mar 24, 2010

I've written one and have an idea for another!

but I'm not published yet... sorry.

MumblingSage · Mar 26, 2010

"The Dark Tower" is the only fantasy/western crossover I know of (and that's a pity, because I'm a fan of both genres and they seem to mix very well together). And it doesn't really have rodeos. Run with this idea. Run hard and fast. See if you can outrun Fantasy Gun Control.*

*Yes, that link does lead to TV Tropes. I just strongly suspect that that particular trope is the reason there aren't more fantasy/western crossovers. As I said, it's a shame.

SPMiller · Mar 26, 2010

Yeah, I have a theory why there isn't more western-fantasy crossover. Most people think lazily about genres and define them based on setting as opposed to story elements. So, you can't mix guns and cowboys with swords and knights. Why? I don't know. There were actual periods in real-world history with both knights and guns.

Smiling Ted · Mar 26, 2010

sunandshadow said:
There have been two or three books which have dragons in a pit fighting/gladiatorial system, but it's not a cliche. I can't think of one with a rodeo, per se. There are some native american fantasies around, but again I don't think any of that is common enough to be a cliche.

I do have to wonder why no one ever seems to do light fantasy any more, *sigh* (I don't like dark fantasy, but don't mind me, there are plenty of people who do.)

I wrote a light fantasy. No agent was interested. Maybe it was my writing; I prefer to think it was an institutional genre bias against light fantasy.

defcon6000 · Mar 26, 2010

SPMiller said:
Yeah, I have a theory why there isn't more western-fantasy crossover. Most people think lazily about genres and define them based on setting as opposed to story elements. So, you can't mix guns and cowboys with swords and knights. Why? I don't know. There were actual periods in real-world history with both knights and guns.

I'm guessing, when people think of fantasy they see the hero wielding a sword - not MK-47 (although that would be sweet!)

But I think it would be fun to see a western styled fantasy world with maybe some steampunk thrown in.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 26, 2010

Dragons and pits and fighting: Jane Yolen has a series.

Western Fantasy cross-over Emma Bull Territory

scottishpunk · Mar 29, 2010

And now it's time for some shameless self-promotion.

My entry for the Amazon Breakthrough Novel Awards (now in the quarterfinals) is a fantasy-western hybrid titled Pantheon. It's a cross between the wild west and Greek mythology, to be specific. You can check out the first chapter for free, downloading it for the Kindle, or for the Kindle Reader program on your computer (also a free download).

Unfortunately, the fantasy element isn't terribly evident until the second chapter, but it's hinted at, just barely, near the beginning. Anyway, check it out, and if you like what you see, take a moment to write me a positive review (they can only help).

Anyway, here's the link.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003CV7T08/?tag=absolutewritedm-20

And yes, Defcon. I've toyed with the idea of doing a sequel with heavy steampunk elements. If the right story presents itself... perhaps someday.

SPMiller · Mar 29, 2010

Delaying fantasy elements is probably fine. In 2006, there was a moderately successful novel titled The Lies of Locke Lamora in which speculative elements (in this case, magic) didn't appear for hundreds of pages. Since that was purchased about five years ago, I doubt tastes have changed too much since then.

waylander · Mar 29, 2010

David Gemmell's Jon Shannow series, while set is a post-apocalyptic landscape, has a fantasy/western feel

rugcat · Mar 29, 2010

A little know author, Mark Sumner, wrote two archetypal fantasy westerns in the mid-nineties. I rather enjoyed them.

Devil's Tower

Devil's Engine

He also wrote a series titled "News From The Edge" about a group who works at a tabloid paper specializing in weird paranormal stories (like the Weekly World News) ) who end up running into real stories. It was made into a short lived TV series.

cameron_chapman · Mar 29, 2010

Thanks for all the great input! I've got my outline complete (I have to outline fantasy or I get lost and nothing makes sense and then it's too overwhelming to even edit) and hope to get a draft done by the end of April.

timewaster · Mar 29, 2010

The very successful YA series 'Chaos Walking' by patrick Ness is a SF/Fantasy/Western mix and is great.

Straka · Mar 29, 2010

Smiling Ted said:
I wrote a light fantasy.

Is that like heavy fantasy without the artillery support?

JimmyB27 · Mar 30, 2010

Straka said:
Is that like heavy fantasy without the artillery support?

I think it means the book isn't big enough to prop a door open.

MumblingSage · Mar 30, 2010

SPMiller said:
Delaying fantasy elements is probably fine. In 2006, there was a moderately successful novel titled The Lies of Locke Lamora in which speculative elements (in this case, magic) didn't appear for hundreds of pages. Since that was purchased about five years ago, I doubt tastes have changed too much since then.

Although Locke Lamora was pretty clearly set in another world, what with the giant crystal towers and foreign gods and all--so I guess it depends what you mean by 'speculative element'.

China Mieville's 'Iron Council' is sort of western (early on there's a character called a 'vaquero', although that's almost the least interesting thing about him, and a train and frontier-ish sort of setting predominates), and it's also sort of fantasy... Anyone who's read Perdido Street Station knows what I mean by that. Anyone who hasn't read Perdido Street Station really should.

A little know author, Mark Sumner, wrote two archetypal fantasy westerns in the mid-nineties. I rather enjoyed them.

Devil's Tower

Devil's Engine

The cover quotes on one of those books reminded me--Alvin Maker could also be considered a fantasy/western crossover. Any alternate history set in the early United States would count, for that matter.

timewaster · Mar 30, 2010

The cover quotes on one of those books reminded me--Alvin Maker could also be considered a fantasy/western crossover. Any alternate history set in the early United States would count, for that matter.[/QUOTE]

Oh yes another YA one is Patricia Wrede's 'The Thirteenth Child'

Western/Fantasy Crossover

cameron_chapman

Makes Things Up

BlackMagic528

Master of the Darklands :-)

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

cameron_chapman

Makes Things Up

leahzero

The colors! THE COLORS!

bettielee

I'm a sparkly fairy princess!

MumblingSage

Inarticulate Herb

SPMiller

Prodigiously Hanged

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!

defcon6000

Deleted member 42

scottishpunk

SPMiller

Prodigiously Hanged

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

cameron_chapman

Makes Things Up

timewaster

present

Straka

Bored Fanatic

JimmyB27

Hoopy frood

MumblingSage

Inarticulate Herb

timewaster

present