Historic Fantasy

If it's set in ancient rome then you need to know about ancient rome.

If it's set in an ancient pseudo-roman society then you still need to know about ancient rome.

If we're talking about ethics and academic honesty, you need to make an honest effort to research a good bit.
----------------------------------------
If we're talking about good writing, make sure you do enough research to know a few things that would be interesting and fresh to most readers. One of the appeals of historical fiction is seeing something unusual from an earlier culture, especially if the reader learns something.

----------------------------------------
If we're talking about getting published and selling books...

You need to know more about the topic than the majority of your readers, and probably more than potential agents or publishers. Any more than that is great, but probably not necessary.

Basically, if your readers aren't going to call you out, you're fine. So it really depends on the subject. Some topics have more critical readers than others.

For example, if you're publishing in the United States and doing U.S. historical fiction:

If your topic is the Civil War, you need to know a lot, because it's an extremely popular area of expertise for amateur historians, and everyone thinks they know a lot about it. And some people are emotionally invested in it. (Oh, and if you do say something truthful that doesn't mesh with the lies some people choose to believe, you'll still get criticism.)

Same goes for the Civil Rights movements. If you don't portray it accurately, someone will notice.

If your topic is the Mexican-American War, you don't need to know quite as much, because fewer people know enough to argue.

If your topic is the Franklin Pierce administration, you could read his Wikipedia page and know more about him than I care about, and I'm a professional historian specializing in U.S. history.

If your topic is modern transsexual history, you could say pretty much any ridiculous and offensive and poorly researched thing you wanted, because almost nobody knows anything about us. (This is a huge area of frustration for us, obviously.) Sure, it would be immoral and wrong, but it wouldn't hurt your chances of getting published or read, judging by media I've seen.

And as far as the fantasy element goes, most readers expect realism in anything that isn't altered by "magic" (whatever makes your setting fantastic) or obvious genre conventions.

For example, if your setting is "poleis-era Greece with vampires," people might understand the introduction of legendary monsters as being normal animals mutated by vampiric infection. But they won't understand if you don't have hoplite infantry, unless you include an explanation for why vampires existing altered that fact of history.

You need to know more about the topic than the majority of your readers, and probably more than potential agents or publishers. Any more than that is great, but probably not necessary.

Click to expand...

And people who read historical fiction know a TON. I've been told we're "ruthless" when it comes to shredding someone who hasn't done their research... and that's probably true Seriously, you'll probably have some readers who've been reading Latin fluently since high school (or before) and who know that time period inside and out.

Do you really want/need this story to be set in the historical ancient Rome? Then you're going to have to research your butt off. If you want to set it in a secondary world that's based on ancient Rome, then you can get away with the thin layer of historical.

The flip side of your question is interesting. I approach my historical fantasy as a bit of an exercise in alternate history. Which means I do ALL the research, then decide how things would have developed just a little bit differently to accommodate my magical system (which is often based on historical beliefs in that time period). Then and only then do I tweak things, but I always know where my basis in historical reality is when I make those changes.

For what it's worth, I've currently only ever made one pro sale, but it was a historical fantasy novelette set in a time and place I knew like the back of my hand... and the editors told me that my world-building was why it sold. So my research definitely paid off.

You can go full historical accuracy. Or you can do something set in a place that is ancient rome-ish. It's up to you. I have heard good things about but not yet read Kay's Sailing to Sarantium series, which is loosely based on the Byzantine Empire. There's also Megan Whalen Turner's series, starting with "The Thief", which takes place in pseudo-ancient greece, emphasis on pseudo. It's all olive groves and sandals and complicated pantheons, but there are also rifles and pocket watches and glass windows. The author acknowledged in the back that she was inspired by ancient greece, but she didn't really want to be bound by the actual setting. The book was critically VERY well received (Newbery honor, I think).

Some readers really know the periods they are interested very well, so I do agree that research is essential. I went to a talk given by Steven Saylor. In one of the Gordianus books someone eats cherries. Mr Saylor said that someone contacted him to tell him that cherries weren't available in Rome at that time.

Kenny said:

How much historical accuracy is needed for a historical fantasy?

Click to expand...

About as much scientific accuracy is needed for science fiction. In other words, whatever is relevant to the story. And if you want to be taken seriously, it requires A LOT of research.

As someone mentioned, historical fiction readers are brutal when it comes to the facts. In my experience, sci-fi readers are the same way with science fiction. And they have every right to be. They expect you to be the expert on what you're presenting, even though it's fiction.

Mara said:

If your topic is the Franklin Pierce administration, you could read his Wikipedia page and know more about him than I care about, and I'm a professional historian specializing in U.S. history.

Click to expand...

ROFLMAO!!!

I occasionally refer to myself as a semi-professional historian, since I do have a BA in history and have sold a few historical horror short stories. Nice to know a pro has the same opinion of Pierce that I do.

Lydia Sharp said:

About as much scientific accuracy is needed for science fiction. In other words, whatever is relevant to the story. And if you want to be taken seriously, it requires A LOT of research.

As someone mentioned, historical fiction readers are brutal when it comes to the facts. In my experience, sci-fi readers are the same way with science fiction. And they have every right to be. They expect you to be the expert on what you're presenting, even though it's fiction.

Click to expand...

The bolded part isn't really true. I listed a few examples in my earlier post of historical fantasy that don't stick close to historical accuracy. They provide satisfying pseudo-historical settings without a ton of research needed. There are MANY more examples. Look at the steampunk genre--when you add the speculative elements, the setting tends to differ a lot from the actual historical setting.

Readers of fantasy novels that take place in historical settings are NOT historical fantasy readers. They mostly aren't history buffs. They're fantasy fans. IMO a children's book on Ancient Rome should be enough to get you started out for the first draft.

Kitty Pryde said:

The bolded part isn't really true. I listed a few examples in my earlier post of historical fantasy that don't stick close to historical accuracy. They provide satisfying pseudo-historical settings without a ton of research needed. There are MANY more examples. Look at the steampunk genre--when you add the speculative elements, the setting tends to differ a lot from the actual historical setting.

Readers of fantasy novels that take place in historical settings are NOT historical fantasy readers. They mostly aren't history buffs. They're fantasy fans. IMO a children's book on Ancient Rome should be enough to get you started out for the first draft.

Click to expand...

I guess it's a difference of opinion then.

A friend of mine writes historical fantasy, and she spends quite a bit of time making sure her facts are accurate. In my opinion, it makes a huge difference in the quality of writing. Her current WIP just happens to take place in the time period that the OP mentioned. There are definitely details in her writing that could not be found in a children's book about Ancient Rome that (probably) would only cover the basics like clothing, weaponry, and social classes.

But again, much of it would depend on the individual story. As another example, though, there are certain details in a film such as Clash of the Titans (which I consider to be a historical fantasy) that, if missing, I would not take the creators of the film seriously. Just my opinion.

Edit: I went back and reread your prior post, and I think we're comparing apples and oranges here. If something is going to go THAT astray from known history, then it's in an entirely different class. Not saying there is anything wrong with that (because there isn't), it's just different and can't be compared to something that is clearly NOT going that route.

Kenny said:

How much historical accuracy is needed for a historical fantasy?

I have an idea for a story set in Ancient Rome (circa 40-80 CE) but want to know how much world building (read learning) I would need to do? A thin layer to give the impression of Rome or lots with a thin layer or fantasy?

Thanks in advance,
Kenny

(And any sources would be welcomed... :-D )

Click to expand...

All the advice received is very good, even those disagreeing with each other. I think the thing you going to need is how much is fantasy and how much is going to be historical.

Think of the movies Cleopatra. There is not physical evidence of her existence, but yet, the movie stayed true to the legend and the accuracy of the time period, especially considering what they knew when the film was made. Today, many experts will take exception to some of the story line because our knowledge has changed.

If you are going for a fantasy tale set in an ancient Roman time, then you are going to need to be fairly accurate with the culture, clothing, building architecture, and religious beliefs and even military and political facts. Your fantasy elements can be built around these known facts.

If your work is going to be more historical than fantasy, then I think your going to need even more knowledge to be believable to readers who have a very high interest in this type of work.

Jerry Pournelle has a good roman society in his Janissaries Series, and this is on another world...

Lydia Sharp said:

I guess it's a difference of opinion then.

A friend of mine writes historical fantasy, and she spends quite a bit of time making sure her facts are accurate. In my opinion, it makes a huge difference in the quality of writing. Her current WIP just happens to take place in the time period that the OP mentioned. There are definitely details in her writing that could not be found in a children's book about Ancient Rome that (probably) would only cover the basics like clothing, weaponry, and social classes.

But again, much of it would depend on the individual story. As another example, though, there are certain details in a film such as Clash of the Titans (which I consider to be a historical fantasy) that, if missing, I would not take the creators of the film seriously. Just my opinion.

Edit: I went back and reread your prior post, and I think we're comparing apples and oranges here. If something is going to go THAT astray from known history, then it's in an entirely different class. Not saying there is anything wrong with that (because there isn't), it's just different and can't be compared to something that is clearly NOT going that route.

Click to expand...

Some writers certainly DO write fantasy set in an excruciatingly accurate historical setting. And some writers do much more rudimentary research. It is possible to bring an interesting historical/pseudo-historical setting to life either way. It is possible to write a bestselling/brilliant/popular/critically acclaimed novel either way. The OP sounds like he'd prefer to do less, and I'm just saying that it's been done plenty of times.

From what I hear, historical writers stretch the truth whenever possible, which depends on how much they reasonably expect their audience to know. Let me repeat myself: they lie when they can get away with it. Remember, they're writers.

As for historical fantasy, well, you're obviously not working within the constraints of reality, so do whatever you can get away with.

I write teen/YA historical fantasy and coincidentally just blogged on the subject.
The blog is here :http://awfullybigblogadventure.blogspot.com/2010/03/histrionics.html
if you are interested.

You might want to try networking with other writers or enthusiasts for the same period.
There are on line forums which specialise in various historical periods and many of the people are v knowledgeable. Second hand books are cheaper and few of the books you will want will be front list. There is material online which might reference key texts so one way and another you can build yourself a reading list. You don't need to spend a lifetime researching - you just need enough to give your narrative the right kind of feel.
Essentially you want to avoid writing generic fantasy and interesting detail with a historic basis can prevent you from falling into that trap.
The Grail series is historical fiction? There is relatively little known about that period, written sources are patchy and tend to disagree and the archaeological record is ambiguous which is why it is a good period to write about.( I set 'Warriors of Camlann' then) Cornwall researches his books pretty well I think. Doesn't fantasy usually involve a supernatural element or an invented milieu?

I've labeled my WIP as historical fantasy, setting is 15th century Hungary and Romania (well, Wallachia), with some historical characters and others made up for the story. What makes it fantasy appears in the second chapter, when my MC comes in contact with an over-sized wolf who befriends him, and later on learns of what it truly is and tries to destroy it before it kills anymore of his loved ones. There's more to it than that, but I don't want to give too much away. Toward the middle-end of the novel, the MC meets and cares for a boy who has minor mystical abilities. But, I am trying as I rewrite this thing, to make the historical aspects of the story as accurate as I possibly can, while mixing the fantastic. And because of the fantastic, unlike a straight historical, I believe I can fudge some of the historical parts to fit my story. Those that like to read historicals for accuracy aren't going to like this, and those who like straight fantasy may not like the historical aspect, but I hope there will be plenty of readers who don't mind the melding of the two.