Juno Books

Battle of the sexes? How did we devolve into that? I thought this was more of a battle of the writers vs agents.
"Why won't they publish my strong female protag?"/"Why won't they write more strong female protag's?"

SirOtter said:

That sounds pretty interesting, in an Ursula K. LeGuin sort of way. Not that that has any relevance whatsoever. Make it your own, run with it and do good work.

I don't ask that my male protags be Übermenschen, just that they think, react and problem solve the way a man would, not as a female or, what is most common, a generically gendered mannikin that could just as well be either sex does. Or any of several sexes, since we're posting in the SF/Fantasy genre here.

The most masculine character in literature that I can think of according to the above stated criterion is not Conan or Tarzan or Remo Williams. It's Sherlock Holmes. His thought processes are an amplified version of the way men naturally operate - prioritize, focus, follow a thread relentlessly until it peters out, then do the same with others, rejecting the irrelevant as you go, and only weave it all together when you think you've gotten to the last page. That is the basic process that has driven my wife crazy for nearly thirty years now, and only different from how I and most men deal with the world in degree.

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I don't know what you're smokin' Otty, but it sounds like the same sort of thing these guys are into. I don't know if you intend to come off like that, but you do.

The answer to all of this angst is clear to me: if you don't like what's being published out there, write a great book with the kind of characters you like to read about. *shrug* Whining about niche publishers or agents or the industry in general doesn't accomplish a damn thing other than wasting time you could be using to write. I have bookshelves full of fantasy, sci fi, urban fantasy, steampunk and what-have-you from the past fifty years of fiction and I'll tell you honestly that the majority of those books have male MCs. So it's not like the market isn't out there for such character--it is. But if most of what agents and publishers get is well-written spec fic with female MCs, it has very little to do with the trends sometimes and everything to do with the quality of submissions they're getting.

So change it up for them. Write a great book. I guarantee you if you devote your energies to that instead of complaining, you'll have a much better chance of getting published.

JMHO, obviously, but fairly good advice all the way around.

mscelina said:

The answer to all of this angst is clear to me: if you don't like what's being published out there, write a great book with the kind of characters you like to read about. *shrug* Whining about niche publishers or agents or the industry in general doesn't accomplish a damn thing other than wasting time you could be using to write. I have bookshelves full of fantasy, sci fi, urban fantasy, steampunk and what-have-you from the past fifty years of fiction and I'll tell you honestly that the majority of those books have male MCs. So it's not like the market isn't out there for such character--it is. But if most of what agents and publishers get is well-written spec fic with female MCs, it has very little to do with the trends sometimes and everything to do with the quality of submissions they're getting.

So change it up for them. Write a great book. I guarantee you if you devote your energies to that instead of complaining, you'll have a much better chance of getting published.

JMHO, obviously, but fairly good advice all the way around.

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You can smack someone in the eyeballs with common sense, but you can't make them use it.

mscelina said:

The answer to all of this angst is clear to me: if you don't like what's being published out there, write a great book with the kind of characters you like to read about. *shrug* Whining about niche publishers or agents or the industry in general doesn't accomplish a damn thing other than wasting time you could be using to write. I have bookshelves full of fantasy, sci fi, urban fantasy, steampunk and what-have-you from the past fifty years of fiction and I'll tell you honestly that the majority of those books have male MCs. So it's not like the market isn't out there for such character--it is. But if most of what agents and publishers get is well-written spec fic with female MCs, it has very little to do with the trends sometimes and everything to do with the quality of submissions they're getting.

So change it up for them. Write a great book. I guarantee you if you devote your energies to that instead of complaining, you'll have a much better chance of getting published.

JMHO, obviously, but fairly good advice all the way around.

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This and what Stacia Kane said. There is a ton of wisdom in these words.

Besides, if you want something, can't find it, and write it yourself, then you have control over the outcome. Win-win!

We writers spend a lot of time complaining. It's necessary--most of what we get from the industry is rejection rejection and ...er...rejection. BUT that's not the industry's fault. It's OUR fault--we aren't writing strong enough books. So while a little complaining is fine and normal, it's the mindset that "the publishing industry is against me" whine whine whine that is destructive. Sure--we all have a reason to complain every once in a while. But complaining about the gender of main characters in other people's books? That like bitching because the last Piers Antony cover was blue instead of red or thinking that Neil Gaiman's name doesn't look right. Seriously. Who cares what other books have in them?

For me, it's hard enough to concentrate on MY work. I don't have time to worry about what someone else has done. And at least at the end of this road I'm on, I won't have to look back and say, "I ruined my chances of being published because I thought that everything should be all about ME."

It's not. Get over it. Move on. Write your book then revise the hell out of it. YOu can keep the complaining if you want to, but don't sacrifice your book on the altar of coulda shoulda woulda. Then maybe you'll be able to look back and say, "I succeeded DESPITE the industry."

And that's a hell of a lot more satisfying.

CScottMorris said:

Battle of the sexes? How did we devolve into that? I thought this was more of a battle of the writers vs agents.
"Why won't they publish my strong female protag?"/"Why won't they write more strong female protag's?"

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When I posted about "the battle of the sexes" stemmed from...'Look, cool, publisher wanted strong female protag!' to 'Why can't publishers want strong male protag?' It was meant as a joke because I was breaking into the thread while a debate was going on. A little sidestep in and out. Think head poke in. Make odd little funny. Ask question. Then let the scene resume. Vwala!