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You should testify because you have evidence useful to the defense.
I don't see much drama coming from that.
Avoid drama or help a friend?
- Thread starter Devil Ledbetter
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You should testify because you have evidence useful to the defense.
I don't see much drama coming from that.
I never curse on here. But I am in a "your boss is a dick," kinda mood today. I'd testify if it were me.
ETA: What Art_Sempai said.
ETA: What Art_Sempai said.
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Though it may not help her, in some cases it may help lessen her sentence. I guess it depends on the circumstances surrounding the whole thing. Would you want her to testify for you? I think us women have to stick together and support each other even if it does cause drama in our lives.
Follow your heart, darlin'. I would.
Follow your heart, darlin'. I would.
It would be a rare case where an abused woman would not ever have had any opportunity to leave. Most abused women who end up getting killed are killed because they are leaving or have recently left. I'm not sure how much the physical ability to leave factors into her case. Possibly not at all.
She's been charged with open murder. I don't think there's any chance she'll be acquitted, but which degree of murder she is eventually convicted of will make a difference in her sentencing.
I couldn't. I was 18 and living with my parents at the time. She could have moved back in with her own parents, though. I did try to convince her to go to a shelter. The saddest thing about her letter to me was when she said she should have listened to me then.
Yes. I saw her bruises as well as the handgun he threatened her with. I never had any reason to believe the relationship had improved.
I really appreciate all the support in this thread. My boss kind of made me feel like a dope for wanting to help. I would have done it anyway, but it's comforting to know that when it comes to helping a friend in the worst kind of trouble, most people don't think like my boss.
I doubt very seriously you will have a choice but to testify. If I were the defense attorney, I would subpoena you because you are a witness to the abuse she endured. Any good defense attorney would.
Well, it's true I wouldn't have a choice if subpoenaed. My boss's argument was that I should pretend to know nothing to prevent a subpoena.
Of course I would never do that.
Something doesn't seem right about his reaction to your situation, as if he were offering you horrible advice in order to benefit himself in some way.
Not sure if that makes any sense, but can you be sure if he is acting solely in your best interest as this "drama" unfolds?
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I thought of that also, but her testimony would last only one or two days at most, hardly enough to steer someone in the wrong direction, if that's indeed what he is doing.
I don't know what to think except that something in his reaction doesn't seem to add up. From the start he was against her involvement, but why? Wouldn't his employee be better served to follow her conscience instead of some hastily contrived reasons that he pulled out of his hat to try to talk her out of becoming involved?
In hindsight, Devil's best approach should have been not to discuss this case with her boss in the first place. It's none of his business. Then when she received a notice to appear, she could've shown him the document; and if he asked what it was all about, she could've told him, truthfully, that she wasn't at liberty to discuss the case.
You're right. I really didn't think he would react that way. My relationship with my boss is fairly informal in that we talk about whatever is on our minds; he'd come into my office to ask about a recipe when it came up. So ... it's not like I went to him seeking permission about this.
I'm needed at work, but the place isn't going to collapse without me if I'm required to go to court. I also don't think he's just looking to keep me in the office. What Ken said earlier, that it was "practical advice" as my boss sees it, makes sense to me.
What floored me is that his take on it was so different than mine. If he had an old friend in this much trouble and could help, he'd elect not to out of a desire not to be inconvenienced? Wow.
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As long as it's the truth, I don't think friendship is even an issue here. It's the right thing to do, drama or no.
kdnxdr
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I think that because so many people in this world want to "look the other way" when something wrong, evil, bad, unjust is happening for many reasons. Most especially, I think, they don't want to get involved because then, in some way, they believe some harm will come to them. And, truthfully, standing up for what's right or against the "bad guys" can "cost us", sometimes even our life. But, that's what keeps the bad "at bay". If no one ever stood up for what was right or just or good, what kind of world would be living in?
Speaking the truth for the sake of speaking the truth is one of the most brave and important things a person can do and, unfortunately, there are alot of people who would rather not. I personally think those people are cowards and self serving and I wouldn't want them on my survival team.
I've been in your friend's situation and, trust me, your testimony can help.
Thank you, for your courage.
kid
PS: If you can think of any type of other evidence you might have like old emails, letters or know of other people that could be called to her defense, you might offer that to her attorney. She's going through so much mentally/emmotionally, you might be better able to remember some things from the past that she can not.
Speaking the truth for the sake of speaking the truth is one of the most brave and important things a person can do and, unfortunately, there are alot of people who would rather not. I personally think those people are cowards and self serving and I wouldn't want them on my survival team.
I've been in your friend's situation and, trust me, your testimony can help.
Thank you, for your courage.
kid
PS: If you can think of any type of other evidence you might have like old emails, letters or know of other people that could be called to her defense, you might offer that to her attorney. She's going through so much mentally/emmotionally, you might be better able to remember some things from the past that she can not.
My friend's case came to a close this week. She's been in jail 14 months. Her lawyer convinced her to plead guilty to second-degree murder.
I can see his point: because of the nature of the shooting (she unloaded a 9mm into his back, reloaded and shot him in the head) and the fact that three of their kids (21, 19 and 13) were in the home at the time, it would have been hard to gain the sympathy of the jury even with evidence of abuse.
I wrote a character letter to the judge on her behalf. Monday, I attended her sentencing. When it was time for her to make a statement, she apologized profusely to everyone involved, begged their forgiveness and said she wished she'd have just let her husband kill her.
She was sentence to 22-36 years in prison for the murder, plus an additional 4 years to run consecutively on two firearms charges. I was stunned by the length of the sentence. I can't imagine it would have been any longer had she been convicted of first-degree murder.
Here is the part I can't seem to get over: Wednesday, I received a touching letter from her written the evening after her sentencing. She thanked me for attending and said she was comforted to see me there. She thanked me for all the letters and cards I'd written her while she was in jail, and for my friendship, and asked me to stay in touch while she was in prison. She wrote about how proud she is of her kids and how much she loves them. She even said something sympathetic about her sister-in-law, who gave a damning, and factually untrue, victim's statement at the sentencing.
She didn't say one word about her own fate.
I am bowled over by her dignity and grace.
I can see his point: because of the nature of the shooting (she unloaded a 9mm into his back, reloaded and shot him in the head) and the fact that three of their kids (21, 19 and 13) were in the home at the time, it would have been hard to gain the sympathy of the jury even with evidence of abuse.
I wrote a character letter to the judge on her behalf. Monday, I attended her sentencing. When it was time for her to make a statement, she apologized profusely to everyone involved, begged their forgiveness and said she wished she'd have just let her husband kill her.
She was sentence to 22-36 years in prison for the murder, plus an additional 4 years to run consecutively on two firearms charges. I was stunned by the length of the sentence. I can't imagine it would have been any longer had she been convicted of first-degree murder.
Here is the part I can't seem to get over: Wednesday, I received a touching letter from her written the evening after her sentencing. She thanked me for attending and said she was comforted to see me there. She thanked me for all the letters and cards I'd written her while she was in jail, and for my friendship, and asked me to stay in touch while she was in prison. She wrote about how proud she is of her kids and how much she loves them. She even said something sympathetic about her sister-in-law, who gave a damning, and factually untrue, victim's statement at the sentencing.
She didn't say one word about her own fate.
I am bowled over by her dignity and grace.
kdnxdr
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Offering strength and encouragement is never wrong.
Sorry to hear of your friends outcome. Surely, there are things that happen to us in life we would rather never go through. Unfortunately, they come and when they do, God grant us the grace to endure and to be brave.
As a Christian, I know God can bring comfort, even in this most difficult time. I pray she finds that comfort.
kid
Sorry to hear of your friends outcome. Surely, there are things that happen to us in life we would rather never go through. Unfortunately, they come and when they do, God grant us the grace to endure and to be brave.
As a Christian, I know God can bring comfort, even in this most difficult time. I pray she finds that comfort.
kid
As an atheist, I don't know God can bring comfort so I've taken to providing some for her myself.
Thanks for your kind words.
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The sentence seems extreme to me. It's not as if she's likely to kill again after she's released. When does she have possibility for parole?
For me, your boss' belief that 'she killed him so she is a monster who deserves to rot in jail', is a sign of inhumanity. Empathy, which he has none of, is the only way to make a justice system work IMO. It is not about throwing away the key and pretending all of us outside the prisons could never do the things those inside did. I will never understand how some people can distance themselves in that way. It is not only callous, but it is impractical (as it leaves no chance of rehabilitation if everybody just thinks the prisoners are monster. Monsters can only be contained, they cannot be changed).
I like to believe it comes down to fear and weakness for the people who have those views. They need to believe that they are more moral and 'better people' than someone who could commit a crime. This helps them believe they could never commit crime, and it raises them above the people who do. Perhaps they also believe it is the only way for a society to function - to alienate and oust people who do bad things. The thing they're missing is that there are all kinds of criminals out there, and it is the minority who are 'evil' (that should probably be: who have antisocial personality disorder or just, people who can't be helped); most are just people with a lot of bad things going on in their lives.
Personally, I don't believe it makes me more likely to commit crime, just because I admit to myself that I am not so different from a lot of people who do.
I'm not saying everybody's innocent, but that it really is possible, and admirable, for other people to empathize and try to understand how such things could happen.
I'm sorry to say, Devil, your boss is a jerk.
For me, your boss' belief that 'she killed him so she is a monster who deserves to rot in jail', is a sign of inhumanity. Empathy, which he has none of, is the only way to make a justice system work IMO. It is not about throwing away the key and pretending all of us outside the prisons could never do the things those inside did. I will never understand how some people can distance themselves in that way. It is not only callous, but it is impractical (as it leaves no chance of rehabilitation if everybody just thinks the prisoners are monster. Monsters can only be contained, they cannot be changed).
I like to believe it comes down to fear and weakness for the people who have those views. They need to believe that they are more moral and 'better people' than someone who could commit a crime. This helps them believe they could never commit crime, and it raises them above the people who do. Perhaps they also believe it is the only way for a society to function - to alienate and oust people who do bad things. The thing they're missing is that there are all kinds of criminals out there, and it is the minority who are 'evil' (that should probably be: who have antisocial personality disorder or just, people who can't be helped); most are just people with a lot of bad things going on in their lives.
Personally, I don't believe it makes me more likely to commit crime, just because I admit to myself that I am not so different from a lot of people who do.
I'm not saying everybody's innocent, but that it really is possible, and admirable, for other people to empathize and try to understand how such things could happen.
I'm sorry to say, Devil, your boss is a jerk.
Empathy and humanity are rarely, if ever, considered in our justice system. Once upon a time, perhaps. Perhaps it was even a prevalent factor; Justice, the statue, seems to indicate it may have been.
But no more.
There are so many things wrong with this outcome, I don't even know where to begin. Did she commit a crime? Yes. And she should pay for that. I'm willing to bet she even agrees she should. But should it cost her the majority of the remainder of her life? Fuck, like I said, I don't even know where to begin.
Know that you and she both have someone out here in the universe extending only hopeful, positive, well-wishing thoughts for her soundness and strength. And for her loved ones, too.
Humanity is broken. Argue with me; I dare you.
Lyx
But no more.
There are so many things wrong with this outcome, I don't even know where to begin. Did she commit a crime? Yes. And she should pay for that. I'm willing to bet she even agrees she should. But should it cost her the majority of the remainder of her life? Fuck, like I said, I don't even know where to begin.
Know that you and she both have someone out here in the universe extending only hopeful, positive, well-wishing thoughts for her soundness and strength. And for her loved ones, too.
Humanity is broken. Argue with me; I dare you.
Lyx
You know what's funny? He occasionally remarks that I have no sympathy for people, which I of course object to (because it's untrue). Then he'll say "It was a compliment. I'm the same way." If that's not projection, I'm not sure what is.
Fortunately he was out of town the day of the sentencing, so I didn't have to explain my long lunch to him.
People are going to look at this case all sorts of ways. I reserve my own opinion, since I know very little other than what has been posted here.
I'm sure she isn't dancing around for killing him. Killing anyone has to come with a whole mess of baggage when all is said and done.
I'm sure she isn't dancing around for killing him. Killing anyone has to come with a whole mess of baggage when all is said and done.
Those who don't actually know her (on our local paper's web site) carry on about what a monster she is. The reaction of those of us who do know her has been along the lines of "Wow. I always thought he'd be the one to kill her."
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Exactly. That's why I hold my opinion. I don't know her, him or their situation.