Unless the songs are out of copyright, Don't Do It. Period. It's never a good idea, and as much a form of self-sabotage as anything. You don't need the lyrics, the publisher doesn't want the lyrics, and it's unlikely either of you can pay for them.
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Why do you need permission for quotations? I've written a lot of nonfiction, and I've yet to find a case where I needed permission to quote anyone. It's often polite to ask, but not required.
When I wrote scholarly articles and books, I usually cited other scholars without permission. That's part of fair use.
However, I had to get permission twice. Once was for a quote from a novel that I wanted to use as an epigraph for one of my own books. The book's publisher took care of that. I believe the cost was supposed to come out of whatever I earned on the book, but with scholarly stuff, that's usually zero to start with, so I'm not sure. The second time, I wanted to reproduce a chart from another scholar. The journal editor asked me to write the original author myself asking for permission, because the other scholar was less likely to turn me down or charge me than the publisher. And sure enough, that author just gave me permission.
I ran in to the same problem with my own novels. I originally had lines from several songs in my books because the MC always has a song stuck in her head and often thinks in lyrics. The book series takes place in the 80's and the songs are from the 60's-80's, much too new to be in the public domain.
So, when I put the first two novels up as eBooks on B&N and Amazon, I decided to remove all the lyrics because there's no way I could afford to obtain permission to use them all. Instead, I just mentioned the artist or song title, or even a line from the song as long it wasn't a direct quote. For example, in the beginning of Secrets, the MC is leaving her home in IN for CA, and she hears Led Zeppelin's "Going to California" on the car radio. She sighs and says, "My heart is aching right along with yours, Robert Plant." That way the mood is still conveyed, the song is mentioned, but I didn't quote it directly so I don't have to worry about copyright problems. I hope this gives you some new ideas!
Shannon
http://willowwriter.blogspot.com
So, when I put the first two novels up as eBooks on B&N and Amazon, I decided to remove all the lyrics because there's no way I could afford to obtain permission to use them all. Instead, I just mentioned the artist or song title, or even a line from the song as long it wasn't a direct quote. For example, in the beginning of Secrets, the MC is leaving her home in IN for CA, and she hears Led Zeppelin's "Going to California" on the car radio. She sighs and says, "My heart is aching right along with yours, Robert Plant." That way the mood is still conveyed, the song is mentioned, but I didn't quote it directly so I don't have to worry about copyright problems. I hope this gives you some new ideas!
Shannon
http://willowwriter.blogspot.com
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Okay, I think I've got it: Don't use song lyrics.
But what about a random quote? I'd love to use this -- "What is Love but the Demon inside or is an Angel, with play on his mind?" -- but I can't find where it comes from. Some sources say it's anonymous (which leads me to think, I can use it), others say 'John A' ... but it's not clear to me.
I'm just hoping it's not a song lyric.
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But what about a random quote? I'd love to use this -- "What is Love but the Demon inside or is an Angel, with play on his mind?" -- but I can't find where it comes from. Some sources say it's anonymous (which leads me to think, I can use it), others say 'John A' ... but it's not clear to me.
I'm just hoping it's not a song lyric.
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Have you tried Googling the phrase, or part of it? That often will lead you to the source.
The issue isn't so much whether a phrase is part of a song or not; the issue is the length of the original work. In other words, quoting song lyrics is problematic because lyrics are typically short, so even a line or two is a major part of the work. So, if this phrase turns out to be from, say, a poem instead of an actual song, there's still the same problem. If it's from a play or novel, you'd probably be OK, because it's only a short portion of the whole work. (Bear in mind, though, that individual songs from musicals are each whole, entire works, the same way short stories in an anthology would be.)
Dawinsor, thanks for the info!
After posting on this thread, I realize that songs lyrics are an issue in my own book. I'm writing an unauthorized biography of Michael Jackson. There are a couple of places where I want to discuss his approach to lyrics, and I'm not sure I can do that without quoting at least very short parts of the lyrics. For example, Michael Jackson often deliberately mispronounced words because he felt the "new" pronunciation did a better job of conveying the emotions of the song. I want to give an example of this: he often pronounced the phrase "come on" as "shamone." I think it's probably OK to quote the phrase "come on," because it's both very short and a very common phrase, so it probably not protected by copyright even when used in a song.
A more difficult problem occurs with his use of lyrics as a form of percussion. For example, his song "Smooth Criminal" uses a staccato repetition of the phrase "Annie, are you OK?" over and over again. I have seen reviewers mention that specific phrase ("Annie, are you OK?") in published reviews of this song. However, I think reviewers may be more entitled to quote from a work they're reviewing than biographers are.
So, instead of the whole phrase "Annie, are you OK?" I'm considering saying something like, "Much of the lyrics in 'Smooth Criminal' consist of multiple repetitions of the name 'Annie' and the phrase 'Are you OK?'"
By doing this, the longest phrase I'll be quoting is "Are you OK?" Again, that's a short phrase and is very common, so I think it's not protected by copyright even when used in a song.
What do people here think?
I should have been more clear. The quotes I plan to use are from other books, not from people I've spoken to. In some cases, I want to use several fairly long quotes from a single book, so I expect I'll need permission.
After posting on this thread, I realize that songs lyrics are an issue in my own book. I'm writing an unauthorized biography of Michael Jackson. There are a couple of places where I want to discuss his approach to lyrics, and I'm not sure I can do that without quoting at least very short parts of the lyrics. For example, Michael Jackson often deliberately mispronounced words because he felt the "new" pronunciation did a better job of conveying the emotions of the song. I want to give an example of this: he often pronounced the phrase "come on" as "shamone." I think it's probably OK to quote the phrase "come on," because it's both very short and a very common phrase, so it probably not protected by copyright even when used in a song.
A more difficult problem occurs with his use of lyrics as a form of percussion. For example, his song "Smooth Criminal" uses a staccato repetition of the phrase "Annie, are you OK?" over and over again. I have seen reviewers mention that specific phrase ("Annie, are you OK?") in published reviews of this song. However, I think reviewers may be more entitled to quote from a work they're reviewing than biographers are.
So, instead of the whole phrase "Annie, are you OK?" I'm considering saying something like, "Much of the lyrics in 'Smooth Criminal' consist of multiple repetitions of the name 'Annie' and the phrase 'Are you OK?'"
By doing this, the longest phrase I'll be quoting is "Are you OK?" Again, that's a short phrase and is very common, so I think it's not protected by copyright even when used in a song.
What do people here think?
This. I've used bits of old folk songs in stories before. Most of them don't have a single "creator" and are too old to still be under copyright in any case. I have seen songs that are still under copyright quoted in books, but I think it is expensive to get permission. And I am regrettably not Neil Gaiman or Terry Pratchett.
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I grew up - and still grow up - on a steady diet of Stephen King. King loves to use song quotes (especially in his earlier works, including the Bachman books) between paragraphs and within the narrative itself.
However, the big difference between he and the rest of us? Budget. A thousand dollars for use of a song he feels to be essential for the work vs the hundred thousand or so he'll make off it in the first few years? Not as consequential, to say the least.
However, the big difference between he and the rest of us? Budget. A thousand dollars for use of a song he feels to be essential for the work vs the hundred thousand or so he'll make off it in the first few years? Not as consequential, to say the least.
So... let me see if I have this straight. It absolutely OK to use any lyric I want to... right? HEY... I'm kidding!!!
Thanks for the excellent advice. I do appreciate it. I will not, repeat, not use any old Cowboy song lyrics unless the song is ancient, and even then I probably won't take the chance.
I wanted to use the old cowboy lyrics because some of those are just beautifully descriptive. I did write a verse to an old Country song and I put it in. I'll do some more. THANKS!!!
Thanks for the excellent advice. I do appreciate it. I will not, repeat, not use any old Cowboy song lyrics unless the song is ancient, and even then I probably won't take the chance.
I wanted to use the old cowboy lyrics because some of those are just beautifully descriptive. I did write a verse to an old Country song and I put it in. I'll do some more. THANKS!!!
Aside from the legal issues, there is another consideration when including song lyrics in a novel. Lyrics tend to fall pretty flat on their own. This is especially true when the reader is unfamiliar with the song. When the author adds lyrics she believes they contribute a lot because she's hearing the song in her head, with all of its emotion and musicality. But to the reader those same "wonderful" lyrics may be a tedious read. They probably don't add much to plot or characterization either.
If more writers realized this, the "can I include lyrics" question would probably pop up less often.
If more writers realized this, the "can I include lyrics" question would probably pop up less often.
That makes sense. You can use song titles, of course, and there are ways of gettoing almost anything in. I had a character go into a bar, and he hears Frank Sinatra on the jukebox, singing about doing it his way.
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But... it's all about the song...
I realize this is a pretty old thread, but it's a topic extremely relevant to the novel I just completed. The story revolves around music - specifically a band. Removing the song references and lyrics will hurt because they inform the influences of the characters.
Since no one on the forum as far as I've seen has actually done the deed - gotten permissions, investigated the cost, etc. I will report back with what I find out.
I realize this is a pretty old thread, but it's a topic extremely relevant to the novel I just completed. The story revolves around music - specifically a band. Removing the song references and lyrics will hurt because they inform the influences of the characters.
Since no one on the forum as far as I've seen has actually done the deed - gotten permissions, investigated the cost, etc. I will report back with what I find out.
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No. You can use them provided you get permission and (very likely) pay a load of money.
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Nope. Asking permission is not enough. Giving credit to the lyricist and/or band is not enough. Oral permission is not enough.
You need a written contract, crafted by an attorney giving you permission to quote exactly what and for what purpose(s). In all likelihood, even if the musician is your friend it will not be free. It may not even be available, as record labels strive to keep a band's or musician's 'brand' pure. Whoever owns the rights calls the shots, and it's often the label rather than the person who thought it up.
Maryn, sure on this
Thanks for the info on this. I've been stuck in limbo for several hours, trying to make sure I could use the title of a song. I'd wanted to use two lines of the lyrics, but I'm giving that up. LOL I don't think I could take the stress of wondering if the lyric police were coming after me or not!
...This thread has been very informative, thank ya, Jaws for your special info(Oddly enough, the lyrics were, Oh the shark has, pretty teeth dear, and he shows 'em, pearly white Talk about coincidence!
This is actually relevant to me, as I am using a lyric (mind you, not the whole song or even a complete verse, but a lyric) as an epigraph for my novel. Is that allowed?
The simple answer is just don't do it. Fair use is the most abused thing in law. Nowhere in fair use law does it say you can use any copyrighted material in your own fiction, outside of writing a parody.
There's never a good enough reason to use lyrics, any lyrics, without written permission. Finding out you were wrong by getting sued makes no sense for one or two lines that your book can certainly do without.
There's never a good enough reason to use lyrics, any lyrics, without written permission. Finding out you were wrong by getting sued makes no sense for one or two lines that your book can certainly do without.
There's a stunning, emotionally moving copyright FAQ right here on AW, but yeah, don't use lyrics unless you've got lots and lots of money to spend on licensing or legal costs. And I do mean lots.
Also keep in mind that lyrics can date your book. Don't you want to be timeless? Constantly adored and in print?
Also keep in mind that lyrics can date your book. Don't you want to be timeless? Constantly adored and in print?
Okay, I know the last post here was a few months back, but it seems silly to start a new thread. I only sort of want to use a song lyric. What I really want to do is use an altered song lyric, but I don't know if that counts as parody... or maybe something else?
The song is Haddaway's "What Is Love"
Original Lyric: What is love/Oh baby, don't hurt me/Don't hurt me no more
Proposed Lyric: This is love/Badger, don't hurt me/Don't hurt me, I implore
Is that acceptable? I don't feel like it's ACTUALLY a song lyric anymore at that point. I mean... Other than the fact that they're singing it... They could very well just be words I strung together. In fact, they ARE words I strung together. I feel like it would be hard to prove that I had any intent of using a specific song lyric with so many of the words changed, but I'm trying to cover my bases. I'm self-publishing, so I won't have a publisher there to tell me "no, this can't stay."
Thanks in advance!
The song is Haddaway's "What Is Love"
Original Lyric: What is love/Oh baby, don't hurt me/Don't hurt me no more
Proposed Lyric: This is love/Badger, don't hurt me/Don't hurt me, I implore
Is that acceptable? I don't feel like it's ACTUALLY a song lyric anymore at that point. I mean... Other than the fact that they're singing it... They could very well just be words I strung together. In fact, they ARE words I strung together. I feel like it would be hard to prove that I had any intent of using a specific song lyric with so many of the words changed, but I'm trying to cover my bases. I'm self-publishing, so I won't have a publisher there to tell me "no, this can't stay."
Thanks in advance!
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Well, this post, which now exists forever on the Internet, proves intent.
What does this lyric get you that you can't get by other means? How does it advance the plot, reveal character, and support the theme?
It's my firm opinion that most novels that include lyrics, whether original or quoted, would be improved by deleting them. So ... let your conscious be your guide.
But don't do it anyway.
And for heaven's sake, why are you self-publishing? Has the book already been rejected by everyone in Writers' Market?
What does this lyric get you that you can't get by other means? How does it advance the plot, reveal character, and support the theme?
It's my firm opinion that most novels that include lyrics, whether original or quoted, would be improved by deleting them. So ... let your conscious be your guide.
But don't do it anyway.
And for heaven's sake, why are you self-publishing? Has the book already been rejected by everyone in Writers' Market?
The song itself wasn't meant to have any effect. I just liked the cadence of the words, but I couldn't get far enough away from the actual song to stop reminding people of it (if that makes sense). I didn't really want it to be THAT song... I don't really care about that particular song at all. Regardless, it's been re-written, and I love the new version (which won't get me sued).
RE: Writers' Market... No, it's never been rejected by anyone. I've never submitted it to anyone. I'm simply making a personal choice on how I go about getting my feet wet. I do have a novel I intend to submit for traditional publishing once this is done, though. I'm curious to be able to investigate both options, and I've just chosen to start with self-publishing.
Anyway... Thank you for the input. I sort of knew the answer already, but I had to hear... er... read it for myself. I appreciate it!
RE: Writers' Market... No, it's never been rejected by anyone. I've never submitted it to anyone. I'm simply making a personal choice on how I go about getting my feet wet. I do have a novel I intend to submit for traditional publishing once this is done, though. I'm curious to be able to investigate both options, and I've just chosen to start with self-publishing.
Anyway... Thank you for the input. I sort of knew the answer already, but I had to hear... er... read it for myself. I appreciate it!
Yes, it does, but since the law assumes novels are written to make money, the standards of fair use are stricter for fiction than, for example, classroom use.
But the RIAA is so aggressive about pursuing perceived copyright infringements, the concept of fair use doesn't really exist with song lyrics.
Titles, on the other hand, are not copyrightable.
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