The "T" Party.

Correct, hermaphrodite is derogatory. It is primarily used in veterinary service now. I would hope the term goes away there too.

Intersex is a good to use. There are many websites to look at for information.

There are a few intersections between intersex people and transsexual people. And there are many differences too. Doing a read of websites should help there.

One of the ways that people with intersex people are associated with transsexual people is the corrective surgery is simliar.

Unfortunately, finding people who are not easily upset can be difficult. There are many hypersensitive people out there. One way to research is to contact a local LGBT center and talk to someone there. They will have the names of people willing to help.

Rhoda Nightingale said:

Thanks, both of you. It never would have occurred to me to search "intersex." Out of curiosity, what's the difference between the two? Is "hermaphrodite" considered derogatory? Or does it just not mean what I think it means?

Mara: Yes, actually that's backstory I'm going for. Basically during a biology class when they're learning about humans and their "parts," she realizes it's not "normal" to have both. (I haven't decided what age this happens yet, but it's part of her backstory. Not sure if I'm going to include it in the actual narrative or not. I'm still character-building here.)

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More thanks for the links and suggestions!

I'll try to keep "hypersensitivity" in mind, but I have to admit I run out of patience pretty quick if I'm trying my best not to offend someone and they take offense anyway...

But this is why we ask these questions first, right?

That is a very big problem. There are many people who start transition and a day later expect the world, especially family and friends, to address them with correct pronoun and salutations. The sad thing is some are still ready to bite heads off years after transitioning because someone slips. That is very common with family and friends who have known the person for many years before the transition.

However, there are quite a few transpeople who are ambassadors, willing to take mistakes in stride while they help navigate the mine strewn paths. Those are the people you need to contact at the LGBT centers. They often do lectures and discussion panels for groups too. A speakers bureau type thing.

Rhoda Nightingale said:

More thanks for the links and suggestions!

I'll try to keep "hypersensitivity" in mind, but I have to admit I run out of patience pretty quick if I'm trying my best not to offend someone and they take offense anyway...

But this is why we ask these questions first, right?

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Blame the tranny for cyber bullying:

Seventeen-year-old Vicky was born male and as a boy called Simon, had a trouble-free education at Gable Hall School in Corringham.

But that, she claimed, changed when she started the sixth form as Vicky.

She had doors slammed in her face, shouts of “tranny”and “queer” in the corridor, and was ignored.

[snip]

Derek said: “We were called into a meeting with the school and the attitude was ‘your child is only 16, we don’t think that is old enough to be making these decisions’.

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And you gotta love how the principle didn't want to give a talk on not treating people like shit because, "It would upset them too much." Sometimes, I really hate people.

Oh my god, I hate the "you're not old enough to make that decision" bullshit. The people who spew that line, how old were they when they figured out they were cis?

Invincibility said:

Oh my god, I hate the "you're not old enough to make that decision" bullshit. The people who spew that line, how old were they when they figured out they were cis?

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I know. While many trans people don't really know for sure until later, quite a few know from a very young age. Why should they be treated any different than cis kids who identify with a particular gender?

(Modest Proposal mode)

How about we just assume all children are trans until they're 18, then they can decide to detransition if they want? Sounds just as fair to me as forcing a trans kid to go through puberty when they know it's the wrong one and will cause permanent problems for them later in life.

(/Modest Proposal)

Seriously, letting a cis adolescent go through the default puberty involves almost as big of a decision as letting a trans adolescent go through hormone therapy. Maybe the average trans kid doesn't know for sure that they're trans at 12, but I'm damn sure the average cis kid has given their gender even less thought when they're 12.

I feel tired all the time. I'm starting to feel like my life would be easier if I had never come out.

Nothing new on my end. Still in the closet in real life about being a trans girl. There's stuff I want to do before starting transition (like getting money to be able to do it). Since I can't transition anytime in the near future, there's no point in coming out about it.

Diana Hignutt said:

I know. It really does get easier. I promise. You can always talk to us, if you need someone to talk to. Lot's of great folks, tg or otherwise here.

Hang in there.

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You're right: There are some pretty great people in the QLTBAG forum. (On a side note, I keep wanting to spell it QUILTBAG... "ungendered" or "unbinary" and "intersex" would fit as words! But maybe it's simpler the way it is.) I feel so awkward talking about this stuff with strangers, so I try to keep it to my friends, but I'm pretty sure they're sick of hearing it...

Basically, thanks to the way the world is set up, there's no way I'll ever be able to pass as neutrois; no matter what I do, someone's always going to read me as male or female. No one IRL calls me by my preferred pronoun (it); some of them just keep forgetting, but most of them I haven't figured out how to tell. That latter category includes my entire family.

The worst part is I don't even really know what to say. It's pretty much the same thing all the time: My body's all wrong, I'm always going to be misgendered forever, my own name makes me want to throw up but I can't figure out something I actually do want to be called, I hate my life, etc. Every time I bring it up it just feels like a rehash of something I've already said.

Diana Hignutt said:

A bump to check in on my peeps.

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I'm good. I was kinda daydreaming earlier today, kinda thinking about old times and instinctively slipping into the old fake-male thought patterns, then glanced at the mirror and saw someone unexpected, and it was a very pleasant surprise. I'm looking and feeling much better.

I went through a little resurgence of frustration, but then it went away. I've been feeling wonderful the past month or two. And I wrote the first draft of a novel in about six weeks, which is _way_ faster than I ever was able to write before.

So, anyway, that's why I've been a bit quiet around here lately.

Invincibility said:

I feel tired all the time. I'm starting to feel like my life would be easier if I had never come out.

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*major hugs*

Invincibility said:

Basically, thanks to the way the world is set up, there's no way I'll ever be able to pass as neutrois; no matter what I do, someone's always going to read me as male or female. No one IRL calls me by my preferred pronoun (it); some of them just keep forgetting, but most of them I haven't figured out how to tell. That latter category includes my entire family.

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I think the pronoun issue has three problems.

1) It's really hard for people to get used to switching pronouns for someone they know. Most people around me use the wrong ones as much as the right ones and have to correct themselves a lot.

2) Gender-neutral pronouns like "ze" and "hir" or even "they" are really hard for most people to get used to, since so many people fit into the gender binary. So it's extra tough for intergender people.

3) I'm not criticizing your choice, but for most transgender people, regardless of subcategory, "it" is considered extremely offensive and hurtful. You're the only person anywhere in the transgender spectrum I've ever seen that wanted to be called that. You have a right to identify with that word if you want, but it's probably hard for anyone around you to get used to saying it when it's so strongly discouraged by other transgender people.

I know it's got some baggage. I picked it in a reclamatory manner; people were slinging it around all hurtful-like when I first came out, so I decided to go with it. They can't hurt me with a word I'm using for myself. I... also really hate ze, hir, xyr, per, and all the other made-up pronouns I've heard because of how fake they sound, and "they" is just confusing.

For what it's worth I have other friends who go by "it", so it doesn't seem so weird to me.

Oh, I should have used quotation marks... Sorry about that.

I do sympathize with the people who've told me they're uncomfortable with 'it', so I can live with people using 'they' for me. I've even grinned and bore it when people have used 'zie' and 'ey'. The problem I'm having is people calling me 'she', which is just plain inaccurate. And I know it's tough to switch the pronouns you've been calling people for so long -- there've been times when I slipped up on friends of mine -- but the thing is that even when I say "Hey could you use 'it' please?" they go "Ugh, lighten up, it's not that big a deal."

Which I guess I should have clarified to begin with. Sorry.

Invincibility said:

Oh, I should have used quotation marks... Sorry about that.

I do sympathize with the people who've told me they're uncomfortable with 'it', so I can live with people using 'they' for me. I've even grinned and bore it when people have used 'zie' and 'ey'. The problem I'm having is people calling me 'she', which is just plain inaccurate. And I know it's tough to switch the pronouns you've been calling people for so long -- there've been times when I slipped up on friends of mine -- but the thing is that even when I say "Hey could you use 'it' please?" they go "Ugh, lighten up, it's not that big a deal."

Which I guess I should have clarified to begin with. Sorry.

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Ah. It's one thing if someone forgets, but if they try the "it's not my problem for forgetting, it's yours for wanting me to use a different pronoun" thing, they're being very rude.

Shadow Dragon said:

Nothing new on my end. Still in the closet in real life about being a trans girl. There's stuff I want to do before starting transition (like getting money to be able to do it). Since I can't transition anytime in the near future, there's no point in coming out about it.

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I can 100% sympathise with this. Trans girl, no money, in the closet, no point in coming out. *hugs*

...

Anyway, I came back to the T Party just to check in on how people are doing, and to relate a few things from my life as of late.

About 2 weeks ago, I found myself smiling and frustrated at the same time. I was in my Uni class (about 9 people, doing a free entry course thingamabob) first day back this year. Anyway, as always we had to fill out a survey at the start of the class, for some reason.

On the survey, the first questions was about gender. It listed "Male - Female - Transgender". So I was frustrated for 2 reasons. First of all, I'm in the closet, so I didn't want to tick Trans and Female. Secondly, I was annoyed that there was just one option for Transgender. Surely "Trans Male" and "Trans Female" should've been there instead of just "Transgender" ??

Anyway, so at the end of the class, I was walking towards the door, and I noticed the only other guy in the class hadn't handed his survey up yet. I didn't mean to pry, but I noticed a big circle around the entire gender question with "HIGHLY OFFENSIVE!!!" written big enough that I saw it straight away. So this made me smile. I don't know exactly what he meant by that, per his actual emotions and thoughts (I didn't ask) but I know this guy is sympathetic to trans issues, from a conversation we had last year.

Anyway, I smiled while being a little frustrated. So when I was waiting for the bus home, I started rethinking about whether this guy was actually a trans girl or not. He seems feminine, not just in looks but in disposition, and seems to be carrying a fair amount of baggage. He was sympathetic to trans issues. (I should point out, I'm using "He" because I don't know if he's a trans girl or not, and he's certainly never told anyone in the class to call him "She".)

So I'm not sure if he's trans or not. I must admit - I see trans people everywhere. As in, I'll see someone I've never met and will probably never speak to walking around the shops, and I'll just think, "I bet he's a trans woman," or whatever. It's because it's on my mind.

Anyway, I think this guy might be trans, maybe.

So 2 nights ago, for Drama class we had to go see a play to do a review on it later. So this guy and myself both got a lift from a woman in our class, there and back, and me and him sat next to each other in the theatre.

The one thought that wouldn't leave my mind was a little fanciful, but it was basically, "This feels like a date." I just couldn't get it out of my mind.

Now, I'm not attracted to men, but this guy is feminine and good looking, and I became very confused (again).

I've reconciled this with the idea that I'm only attracted to him because I honestly think he's a closeted trans girl.

So I've come to the realisation that I can be attracted to someone purely for their mental and emotional selves, completely overlooking their physical bodies.

Who knew I wasn't shallow? *shrug*

It's still a little confusing. This is the first time I've actually had romantic thoughts about someone who has a penis.

*headdesk*

And he's a writer. This seriously doesn't help. I know it sounds like I'm being homophobic (a guy who can't accept that he likes another guy) but honestly, it's more a case of "trans girl liking suspected trans girl". But the confusion comes in because I know I could never have sex with him (even if he were willing, which I'm not saying he is) because it doesn't feel right in my stomach. Emotionally and mentally, I'm attracted to him, but I don't think I could ever act on it. Hence, it's very confusing to me.

...

Anyway, thanks for reading my ramble.

I hope everyone finds what they're looking for.

Funny experience. I went into a gas station to pay cash before pumping.

Cashier: Yes, ma'am?
Me: (Whoa, ma'am? Yay! Oh, no, my voice. Oh well. Um...) $15 on Number 7, please.
Casher: Thank you, sir.

She kinda said "sir" with hesitation, like she wasn't sure. Now, for many trans women, that whole thing would be kinda disappointing. But considering that I wear really androgynous clothes, don't look all that female yet, and most people haven't even figured out that I'm transitioning unless I actually tell them, it was kinda funny. (This was only the third time a stranger has called me ma'am.)

That makes me feel a lot better, Mara. Thanks.

I've been tossing around the idea of waiting until the end of this year, when our Uni course ends, and then telling him about AW. He's a horror writer, quite talented IMO, and I know he'd love it here. But I've been afraid to tell him about AW because I figured he might come into the QLTBAG and realise I was trans. I honestly think he'd be fine with it, and even supportive, but... my irrational fear is that he'd mention something to someone else who I know in real life (such as the other people in our class) and those are people who for the most part don't seem very welcoming of non-heteronormative dispositions. Not outwardly hostile to QLTBAG issues... in fact, 2 of the girls are bi and dating women right now (which I just found out this year) but still... NOBODY in my real life knows I'm trans, so naturally I'm scared of letting anyone get that close.

But after the course is over, anyone who he knows that I know, if he did tell them I was trans, it wouldn't matter, because I would never see them again, in all likelihood.

And I just have a hunch that he might be a trans girl himself...

But I'm only toying with the idea of telling him about AW right now. For starters, it'd still be December this year before I could act out on this. Secondly... I'm truly weirded out by my attraction to him...

/confuzzled

...

Also, I'm very happy to hear that you've hit it off with someone you never thought you'd be attracted to. It's just one of those things that make me smile. If it can work out for you, then even someone like me might have a shot at finding someone.

Also - Invincibility, I had a thought about the "It" pronoun dilemma. You want something that doesn't determine gender, but which people could get on board with referring to you by, but which isn't a made-up word which most people have never heard of, right?

How about the Italian "Lei"? It means "He/She/It" for verbing purposes. (Pronounced "lay".)

Just a thought, but it seemed like a nice happy middle ground to your frustration.

Diana Hignutt said:

This will probably go over like a lead balloon. I know we have some "T" folks here, but most are "going stealth" as we say in our circles.

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just found this thread and answered the first post on it. very out of date, obviously.

yes, a tranny here. I usually don't get into it either offline or online. it doesn't really come up. so I suppose you could call me stealth.

Shadow Dragon said:

Nothing new on my end. Still in the closet in real life about being a trans girl. There's stuff I want to do before starting transition (like getting money to be able to do it). Since I can't transition anytime in the near future, there's no point in coming out about it.

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if I had to do it over again, I would transition earlier. like, as soon as I consciously realized I wanted to do it.

so, take it from me, if you don't want to transition now, then practice your voice and mannerisms for when you do. because it took me several years to do that right, voice especially. (though I never had previously tried to pass or act like a girl before. more like the opposite.) in order words, work on transition-related skills if you don't want to jump into it now.