How Much is Too Much

Stunted · Jan 17, 2010

How do you know when your world has gotten too complicated? I don't mean complicated in the way that real life is complicated--with lots of people of different races and backgrounds and means of transportation, but complicated in that there are a lot of incongruous magic-al goings on happening at once.

Like, if there were a world that was based on 1890 New Orleans, but there were robots and witches and a prophesy and an orphanage where kids are turned into dolls and a stone to go find, I think we would all agree that that would be a bit much.

How do you avoid letting that happen?

Liosse de Velishaf · Jan 17, 2010

Stunted said:
How do you know when your world has gotten too complicated? I don't mean complicated in the way that real life is complicated--with lots of people of different races and backgrounds and means of transportation, but complicated in that there are a lot of incongruous magic-al goings on happening at once.

Like, if there were a world that was based on 1890 New Orleans, but there were robots and witches and a prophesy and an orphanage where kids are turned into dolls and a stone to go find, I think we would all agree that that would be a bit much.

How do you avoid letting that happen?

Complicated? Sounds more like New Weird.

Mr Flibble · Jan 17, 2010

I like complicated - lots of stuff is too simple and I hate that.

And the answer is - when your intended audience ( or beta ) throws up, it's too much.

Canotila · Jan 17, 2010

When it gets in the way of telling the story.

maxmordon · Jan 17, 2010

When you need three maps, half a dozen of family trees and a glossary to have a vague idea what the hell is going on.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jan 17, 2010

maxmordon said:
When you need three maps, half a dozen of family trees and a glossary to have a vague idea what the hell is going on.

Shoot... That's about half my stories. Though... they're all in the same world, so maybe it only counts for one.

Zoombie · Jan 18, 2010

Liosse de Velishaf said:
Complicated? Sounds more like New Weird.

New Weird? Haven't heard that one before...

Parametric · Jan 18, 2010

Stunted said:
How do you know when your world has gotten too complicated? I don't mean complicated in the way that real life is complicated--with lots of people of different races and backgrounds and means of transportation, but complicated in that there are a lot of incongruous magic-al goings on happening at once.

Like, if there were a world that was based on 1890 New Orleans, but there were robots and witches and a prophesy and an orphanage where kids are turned into dolls and a stone to go find, I think we would all agree that that would be a bit much.

That doesn't necessarily sound too much to me. I think you could easily fit all those elements into a novel without it feeling crowded. The trick, for me, is that the novel has time (or takes time) to really explore each element of the world, rather than just jamming new stuff into each sentence with a crowbar. When I'm getting smacked with weird stuff every sentence, I'm confused and alienated. I need to be able to follow the story.

Zoombie said:
New Weird? Haven't heard that one before...

China Mieville? Full of weird. Every time you turn the page people with surgically-grafted insect heads are leaping out trying to eat your face.

maxmordon · Jan 18, 2010

Yep, pretty much what China Melville writes.

maxmordon · Jan 18, 2010

Liosse de Velishaf said:
Shoot... That's about half my stories. Though... they're all in the same world, so maybe it only counts for one.

Ah well, we shall left you leave with a warning, then.

ChaosTitan · Jan 18, 2010

It really depends, and even readers aren't going to agree with what's enough or too much. If you're using so much detail and so many different things that you can't keep track of them without complicated spreadsheets, it may be too much. If every person who crits the story says their eyes started to glaze over and they couldn't keep track of the people/places/critters without a pen and paper, it may be too much.

But it will always vary. Some folks have said they loved the varied amount of creatures I have in my novel and that you get little bits of history on all of them. Some folks complain that it's too much, too complex, and they got confused. *shrug* Can't please everyone, right?

Stellan · Jan 18, 2010

Canotila said:
When it gets in the way of telling the story.

I'd agree with this.

Also, when it starts to matter to you more than the story.

Z0Marley · Jan 18, 2010

I'd have to say I over plot. There's too much of odd things. The good news is, unless you're highly educated in theology, you won't pick up on most of it. I would say there are about four references per chapter that most people wouldn't pick up on.

At first I tried explaining every little thing since my books are targeted towards young adults. Then it got muddled. So I kept the references in there, but deleted all the spoon-fed crap so things wouldn't get too complicated.

Canotila · Jan 18, 2010

Chances are if someone is reading fantasy/sci fi, they are reading it with the expectation odd things and an unfamiliar world are going to be elements.

Personally, I'd rather the author used spreadsheets and genealogical charts to keep everything straight than to be jarred out of the story by inconsistent worldbuilding and details gone wrong. I love stories with genealogy and history, not as infodumps, but as part of the setting or even the storyline. It helps things feel more solid and real to me.

I think it was JK Rowling who said she used giant charts covered in sticky notes to keep all her characters and their various storylines straight. I'm sure she's not the only one.

Death Wizard · Jan 18, 2010

maxmordon said:
Yep, pretty much what China Melville writes.

Ha!

Death Wizard · Jan 18, 2010

ChaosTitan said:
It really depends, and even readers aren't going to agree with what's enough or too much. If you're using so much detail and so many different things that you can't keep track of them without complicated spreadsheets, it may be too much. If every person who crits the story says their eyes started to glaze over and they couldn't keep track of the people/places/critters without a pen and paper, it may be too much.

But it will always vary. Some folks have said they loved the varied amount of creatures I have in my novel and that you get little bits of history on all of them. Some folks complain that it's too much, too complex, and they got confused. *shrug* Can't please everyone, right?

Agreed.

How Much is Too Much

Stunted

Ich heiße Superphantastisch!

Liosse de Velishaf

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Canotila

Sever your leg please.

maxmordon

Penúltimo

Liosse de Velishaf

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

Parametric

maxmordon

Penúltimo

maxmordon

Penúltimo

ChaosTitan

Around

Stellan

Not that other guy

Z0Marley

Canotila

Sever your leg please.

Death Wizard

Tumhe na koci puujetha

Death Wizard

Tumhe na koci puujetha