Another query question--when do you consider a rewrite?

kaitie

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Yeah, I know, I ask way too many questions. Anyway, I've got a question and was hoping for advice.

I've started sending out queries, and while I haven't gotten many responses yet (just four), I'm wondering at what point you know your query doesn't work and revise it. Just a moment, I sound like I'm getting ahead of myself. Let me elaborate.

Basically, I know the general rule of, "If you don't get a 10% request rate, it means there is something wrong with your query." Now, I might end up with a request (to be honest, I'd be pretty amazed), but I'm just wondering how you know? I mean, does that mean if out of my first batch of fifteen I don't get a request I should rewrite before sending it out again? Do people usually send out more like thirty before deciding this? The part of me that actually gets statistics thinks, "But going by ten would be silly because you might get none in the first batch but three in the second." At the same time, obviously our query lists are limited, and I wouldn't want to continue sending out a bad query letter if it was a problem.

I already went through Hell, rewrote about five or six times there, and I think I addressed all the issues that had been brought up. I was told by quite a few people that they liked the idea, which made me pretty confident in that regard at least.

I'm also a bit hobbled by the fact that I've got an auto-reject word count by a lot of people's standards (120k), so I'm not really anticipating requests in general.

Anyway, I know I'm thinking ahead, but I'm just wondering if I should write another version of my query to have on hand if I pass the 90% rejection rate.
 

Puma

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Hi Kaitie - If you aren't getting the response you think you should be getting (given economic conditions, high word count, genre, etc), I'd say revise your query. But, the big question is, how do you determine what's a good response rate. And does good response rate also take into consideration rejections as well as requests (versus no responses).

Look at query letter samples on a couple other sites (Agentquery, Preditors and Editors, etc) and see how your query stacks up with their recommendations. And, if the agent you're submitting to has a sample query on their website, always take a look at it to make sure you're not out in left field. It's good to tailor the query to each specific agent (without going overboard and getting gushy.)

On your question, I do small modifications continually and on some have done major overhauls after a while (I don't send out massive mailings - only a few at a time). Not sure that will help, but ... Puma
 

kaitie

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Yeah, I've been doing minor personalizations, particularly if it's an agent I'm more familiar with. And I've read the entirety of the Query Shark and Miss Snark and Nathan Bransford's blogs, etc., so I think my query is at least okay (and like I said, I put it through Hell here, so at the very least it isn't terrible haha). It's just also possible that my current style/voice of it wouldn't work or something and should be changed. It took me about a month to get that one ready, so I guess I'm just wondering if it would be a good idea to start working on another just in case, or let it play out and then get to it again if it's necessary.

I didn't really even think about receiving a rejection instead of a "no." I guess the theory there is that if you receive a response at all from someone who usually doesn't give one it's better than nothing?

How many people out there have used more than one query at a time? Sorta tested them out, so to speak? Then again, like you said, I really have no idea how to determine what's a "good" rate for me. I mean, maybe with my word count one in twenty or one in fifty would be "good"? It's the first novel I've submitted, so I'm not really sure what to expect.
 

Twizzle

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How many people out there have used more than one query at a time?

I had several. I never believed my query could be a one size fits all. It was always sort of a fluid thing.

(An aside, but in QLH, I remember they came up with queries for the bible. Interesting how they not only came up with concise versions for such a tome, but many versions as well. Just went to show there are as many ways to query a book as there are books and writers and creativity in the universe.)
 

kaitie

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Wow, that's really interesting. I'll have to go look up the thread. I'm sorta thinking the same as well. I'm sure there are many ways I could write a query that would be good, I'm just not sure which would be the number one most effective. I'm still a little ahead of myself at the moment. I should at least get a few more rejections under my belt first, though I have thought of toying with a new one just for kicks.

Good lord. When did writing a query letter become something I'd do for fun?
 

Jamesaritchie

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A ten percent request rate means you either have a lousy query, or you have a lousy method of targeting agents. If only one agent out of ten requests a full, you definitely need to rewrite the query.
 

jclarkdawe

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It's impossible to give a definitive answer here, and a lot of this is knowing your book and its likely markets. Reality is some books do better than others because your novel is what it is and the market is what it is and never the twain shall meet.

First thing in evaluating a query is knowing the number of responses compared to how many sent out. You have 4, but we don't know from how many. Out of 50, you're not doing too bad. Out of 100, you're still not where I'd panic. Out of 200, then maybe I'd be concerned.

Second thing to factor into this is what percentage of your queries go out naked, and how many bring along the first ten pages for company. Personally, if the first ten pages are good, then I send them along, but obviously, this reduces your ability to evaluate your query. And I worry a lot more about openings than I do about queries.

Now you start looking at the query. First thing to look at is whether the premise and plot show up. I'm talking broad plot here, such as orphan saves world, or whatever. If they don't, you're dead in the water. And as part of this, I look at whether I've read this before. If I have, you have to work harder to keep my attention.

At this point, I tend to come up with a word count that I think is appropriate to this type of book and genre. Then I check to see whether the author agrees. Part of this involves going back to the market and seeing what's going on with the market. Go down to your bookstore and look at debut authors. How many in the genre are you finding and what is their word count. Don't tell me what Stephen King is writing, tell me what Joe I'veneverwrittenbefore is getting published.

Then I look at the voice. Voice is subjective, but there should be some voice in any query. And I look at how I'd edit the letter. Is my desire to edit screaming or is it fairly quiet. And I'm also factoring in pacing. Is the writer building the appropriate tension in their letter (realize that this varies from genre).

Now realize that some of this can't be changed. Limitations in the book will cause limitations in the query. If the book doesn't have much voice, then the query won't.

Then, looking at the entire package, I figure out how well I think it's going to do, because the 10% rule is a bunch of crap. Each query is different. Some queries can easily exceed 20% while others aren't. For instance, when I queried THE NEXT STEP, I wasn't expecting a lot of response. Hell, the book is about dying! How many people do I think I'm going to interest in it? The premise is just not something that causes people to go wow. On the other hand, a book with the premise that the President of the United States is also a mass murderer, sneaking away from the Secret Service to kill off Congressmen that vote against him, and getting away with it, now that would get the attention of a lot of agents.

In your case, you have a word count problem, you've got biological weapons (read them before -- a lot), CIA (read them before -- a lot), a weak voice that is probably consistent with your book, and not much tension (again, probably consistent with your book). It's going to be a harder sell then other thrillers or suspense book. Not impossible, but I would see a response in the 5% range as reasonable. It's not that bad, but it isn't that good, either.

And I don't think working on the query is going to change it much. Short of a serious rewrite of your book, bringing down the word count, working harder on the voice, and increasing the tension (which will come about in part as the word count drops), my guess is your query is doing a good job of accurately describing your book.

But this is all guessing. It's an attempt to apply logic to something that isn't really logical.

All I know is that the best advice is when you start querying, don't worry about that book anymore. Work on your next book and making it even better than your last.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

kaitie

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Yeah, I matched the tone more to the tone of the opening of the story (well, and overall it's somewhat light. It's not a thriller where it's just danger and action one after the other). Oddly, the story does actually have tension, particularly near the end when you'd really not expect it to (as the action goes away :tongue). That's part of what I was thinking when I was wondering about my numbers, too. It's one of those crazy things that I think the book itself is really good as a whole and not what someone would expect--but again who would read it if it's not what they expect? Add to that a word count like mine and...well yeah not gonna be easy. Oh well. All I can do is try anyway, right?
 
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evol_reed

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jclarkdawe it's interesting that you mention queries going out "naked." The two actual rejections that I've received were based on query only, no sample chapters. And kaitie I am in query hell right with you! My manuscript is 125,000 words, so I feel your pain in that, too!
 

kaitie

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A fellow sufferer of long stories! *Hands evol a nice mug of warm milk tea and a chocolate*

What surprises me is that it really isn't as freaky as I expected it to be. I mean yeah, I get nervous, but even opening the rejections isn't that big of a deal (I figure it will be when I've been through a hundred haha). Back when I submitted short stories I remember being a lot more freaked out by the whole process. I just want to do as well as I can and make sure I'm doing everything to the best of my ability. I figure if this one doesn't work it's a good learning experience for next time.

I thought the naked queries thing was interesting as well. Granted, I'm not sure if my opening is strong enough to bring people in either, but I hadn't thought too much about that myself. I actually assumed if people didn't like the query they wouldn't even bother to read the sample pages.
 

suki

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You've already had some good responses, but I will add that if you get to the place where you're not getting what you think is a minimally acceptable request rate, then I'd look at both the query and the opening pages.

Even a kickass query can't sell less than kickass first pages. So, if you get to the place where you decide to re-evaluate, re-evaluate both the query and the first chaptes of the book.

good luck.

~suki
 

kaitie

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Well, I'm not sure I'd say good responses, but responses lol. ;) Yeah, my opening pages might be a killer. Actually, I should say my opening chapters might be a killer. Oh well. I've put the opening chapters through SYW and had people beta my first one and I think I fixed most of the problems with it. The big problem is just (if you haven't seen the other threads lol) that I chose to tell the story in a somewhat atypical way that may or may not work. I think it works, but I'm biased. ;)

I imagine if I get nothing but rejections I'll go back through it again, but it might just be not good enough to be published. I figure if that's the case the rejections will let me know.