Phone coversations: as deadly as dream sequences?

I think you can take a lesson from screenplays here. A phone conversation isn't any big deal as long as there's action to go along with the dialogue. I think most people frown on telephone conversations in novels because it often seems like the author had some information he wanted to convey and couldn't think of any other way to do it.

Also, be sure that in filling in backstory and such, you're not resorting to, "As you know, Bob" dialog.

Dream sequences can be cheap tricks. So can phone conversations. Ask: Is this the best way to tell my story?

If well done and organic to the whole novel there's nothing wrong with either dream sequences or phone conversations. Just be certain that you aren't using them because they were at the top in your bag of tricks and you grabbed the first thing that came to hand.

One problem with phone conversations is whether you present them as one-way (one person speaking with pauses for the responses) or two-way dialogue. As long as phone conversations are integral to the story, they are a normal part of life, particularly with the level of cell phone usage. One-way conversations can be used to really ramp up suspense. This creates a consistency problem, however, if you want to present both sides of a conversation at another time. Modern phones are useful here. If you use one-way conversations, but want to slip in a two-way, just have the character push the "speaker" button on the phone.

Phone conversations are not equivalent to dreams. In the former, you are using normal dialogue in which the two speakers are not in immediate proximity. If you are writing a contemporary story, avoidance of phones may be unrealistic, particuarly if your character is under thirty years of age and unnmarried, although individuals of all ages and genders seem to be as concerned about cell phone minutes as are teenagers. These days, a cellular phone is an essential security device for many. Hands up, all those who don't have one...

*raises hand* Me, me! (And I'm under 30 years of age and unmarried...)
But a phone conversation won't throw me, or annoy me - unless it's badly done. Why not post the section in the Share Your Work forum and see what others have to say?

I have phone conversations in my book. As long as it has a point (part of a dialogue) that moves the story or develop characters, why not?

cell phone

Raises hand, too. Had one my family bought me. Didn't like it, gave it away. Had anotehr, simpler one family also bought me. Didn't like it either. Gave it away. They both had the same probllem. . .people can call you on the blasted things.

Jamesaritchie said:

They both had the same probllem. . .people can call you on the blasted things.

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...unless you keep it turned off and don't give out the number (like I do)!

~Nancy

JerseyGirl1962 said:

...unless you keep it turned off and don't give out the number (like I do)!

~Nancy

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Then people expect you to call them. I don't want to call them. I don't want them to call me. And if I don't want them to call me, and I don't want to call them, what's the point in paying for a cell phone?

I think being out of touch is a good thing. It is, I think, somehow unnatural and unhealthy to be wired in all the time.

Cell phone is helpful, I think, for many situations -- on the road, going out, etc. But it doesn't mean just because you have a phone with you, that you're available 24/7. That's what voice mail is for. Just because you have a phone at home doesn't mean people can call you at 3 a.m. or expect you to call them back immediately. That's what answering machines are for.

I love the convenience of having a cell phone, and the peace of mind that if there's an emergency, someone can reach me. Also, if I have an emergency, someone can use my cell to call (you should all have a CAM -- call at emergeny -- number programmed in your cell phone). My friend's life was saved when he had a heart attack because he was able to call 911 on his cell. But my friends and family also know that if it's not urgent or need quick response, they can just send me an email. They know very well (and I tell them so) just because I have a cell phone with me doesn't mean I'm on call. I'll call them when I can or when I want.

This thread brings up another question?

Why are dream sequences bad? In movies and TV, they can be used to great effect (e.g. my favorite show, Six Feet Under, uses dream and fantasy sequences beautifully). So why not books? Why are people so turned off my dream sequences in books?

The problem with dream sequences is that they're cheap tricks. They're a convenient tool rather than necessarily the right tool.

The question is, about any technique, does it work?

Married, over 30, no cell here. Sometimes having one would be useful, but I doubt the thing would pay its way. It seems right and natural to have times – outdoors, especially – when no one can reach me.

dream sequences

I personally think it depends on the how the dream sequence is done. In my opinion, George R. R. Martin is the master of dream sequences. They are brief and very poignant. They are also full of foreshadowing, which leads to mad speculating among fans. So, I don't consider all dream sequences to be cheap tricks, only the ones that are written that way.
To answer your question, I don't see anything wrong with a phone sequence as long as it isn't used as a cheap trick either.


Syrra

maestrowork said:

This thread brings up another question?

Why are dream sequences bad? In movies and TV, they can be used to great effect (e.g. my favorite show, Six Feet Under, uses dream and fantasy sequences beautifully). So why not books? Why are people so turned off my dream sequences in books?

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Don't you think it's because, all too often, writers use them as an excuse for a flashback/infodump and fill them with boring stuff that the reader is not interested in? And (the kiss of death) in fantasy and SF they quite often foretell with eerie accuracy what is going to happen, but are just cryptic enough that the dreamer can't figure out what it means in time to stop it (though the reader usually can and is going 'For God's sake! Don't go in the woodshed!') which gets old very quickly.

I don't think the technique is inherantly flawed. Dream sequences have gotten a bad name because lazy writers have used them badly (like flashbacks) but, as with any other technique in fiction, they should stand and fall on the quality of writing. For me as reader, if you're showing me something interesting and moving the story forward, then you can't really go wrong.

Dream

I think it was probably "Dallas" that did the most harm to dream sequences.

I do think dream sequnces can still be used well, but they've received such a bad reputation from overuse and foolish use that even the good ones have been tainted.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "dream sequence". If you ask me, it's the same as putting "wake sequence", only more stuff can happen in a dream. Maybe you mean "flashbacks in dreams", "prophetic dreams", or "infodump dreams".

They are just as bad as their waking couterparts.

Jamesaritchie said:

I think it was probably "Dallas" that did the most harm to dream sequences.

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Ah, yes. I was a little too young to fully appreciate what was going on there, and why it was bad. But I do remember my parents stopped watching then.

I guess I was just lucky they didn't throw the TV at the wall.

Dreams are usually about characters, their psyche, and symbolisms. I think that's why a lot of people don't like them. In movies, dreams can be very effective if they're short and to the point.. (e.g. Pirates of Caribbean, American Beauty, any horror films...) because they're visual and usually an integral part of the story. If they're too cryptic, they'll probably alienate the audience as well. In books, however, I think it requires so much imagination and deep thinking (symbolisms, etc.) on the readers' part that they become distractions from the story.

Chiming in...

I wanted to chime in a sec on writing phone conversations.

In the book I'm writing I have several telephone conversations.

I think, as long as they sound like regular dialogue that someone would actually speak and as someone else said, moves the story along, I see no problem including them.

JMTC (Just my two cents).

Voice

maestrowork said:

Cell phone is helpful, I think, for many situations -- on the road, going out, etc. But it doesn't mean just because you have a phone with you, that you're available 24/7. That's what voice mail is for. Just because you have a phone at home doesn't mean people can call you at 3 a.m. or expect you to call them back immediately. That's what answering machines are for.

I love the convenience of having a cell phone, and the peace of mind that if there's an emergency, someone can reach me. Also, if I have an emergency, someone can use my cell to call (you should all have a CAM -- call at emergeny -- number programmed in your cell phone). My friend's life was saved when he had a heart attack because he was able to call 911 on his cell. But my friends and family also know that if it's not urgent or need quick response, they can just send me an email. They know very well (and I tell them so) just because I have a cell phone with me doesn't mean I'm on call. I'll call them when I can or when I want.

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I know. It's just a matter of personality. The convenience of a cell phone is what I hate most.

I don't have voice mail, either, and don't want it. Yes, a cell phone can be handy in an emergency, but, really, how often do such emergencies arise? I'll take my chances.

I like being cut off and unreachable. I like not being able to call anyone just because the urge hits.

For what it's worth, I tend to encounter a dream sequence and think, "Uh-oh, not one of these," before I ever see the actual scene and whether it was pulled off right. (They're used a lot in Buffy the TV series, and usually very well - there's one whole episode which is four dream sequences with only the thinnest real world frame, and it's amazing - but I feel that bit of unease before every single one even so)

I've never thought that way about encountering a character telephoning another. I've been disappointed by cruddy or infodumpy dialogue in one, sure - but I feel no wariness going in.

James D. Macdonald said:

Dream sequences can be cheap tricks. So can phone conversations. Ask: Is this the best way to tell my story?

If well done and organic to the whole novel there's nothing wrong with either dream sequences or phone conversations. Just be certain that you aren't using them because they were at the top in your bag of tricks and you grabbed the first thing that came to hand.

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Ya what he said and . . .

Make sure your characters have something worth saying before you let them open their mouths, in a telephone conversation or otherwise.

I've seen writers attempt a phone conversation where the viewpoint character is on the phone, but the other end of the conversation is not revealed. To me, this doesn't feel consistent with the POV. Now, if the viewpoint char is in the room with someone else who's having the phone conversation (or eavesdropping), that's another matter.

My novel has a recurring dream, but it's only 2 short paragraphs long and it seems like a dream (i.e., it's not intended to make the reader think it's really happening). The dream is significant for the character who has it.