Help me out: why is "queer" better than "gay"? (And WHEN is it better?)

Plot Device · Dec 22, 2009

I recall growing up back in the early 1970's that the words "colored" and "negro" were both being shunned in favor of "black" (because "black is beautiful," or at least it was back then). And the people who were shunning those other words were the ones who mattered the most in this whole situation: the people who were being called by those words, and those are the people whom I shall here refer to as "Americans of African descent." And I saw this same shift away from "negro" and away from "colored" being echoed in the media -- both in print and broadcast news reports, and also in enertainment such as magazines, novels, and TV and movies. And who could forget many a TV show where the cop gets on the radio to give a detailed description of a suspect for his urgent APB concerning a "Tall Black Male" (as opposed to a "Tall Colored Male"). Many years later, I learned that "black" was no longer acceptable (although certainly still beautiful), and that "African American" is now preferred (but that too may have changed as of late). And many police officers today are instructed to say "Tall African American Male."

Meanwhile, I had always been told that "queer" was an insult, and that the more polite term was always "gay." So I have always endeavored to say "gay," and I have always witnessed the same careful usage of what I presumed was the preferred term "gay" in the news and on TV, and even in national politics, and also (most importantly) in the phrase "Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender" or LGBT for short. But now I am learning for the first time that "queer" is preferred over "gay."

Please help me out here. I am trying to so hard to keep up. I really really wanna try and keep it straight (no pun intended).

Would I look old-fashioned if I slipped up and used the word "gay"? Would I look prejudiced? Do I teach my students to use the word "queer" and to NEVER use the word "gay"? Are there currently media outlets and pundits using "queer" rather than "gay"? --even Rachel Maddow??

I'm caught in time warp here. Need some help.

Maxinquaye · Dec 22, 2009

Queer is a sociopolitical movement to remove gender-and sexual orientation for a lot of different subgroups; from intersexuals to a- or autosexuals, to hetero and homosexual.

Since I fall in love men, I suppose I'm trapped in a genderoriented category, and should really fall in love with "a person". But beard-stubble, a nice set of abs, a cute ass, and other frontal anatomical details matters to me....

cscarlet · Dec 22, 2009

I don't know... but I might not be totally up to date.

I can say that I am very close with one couple who is gay, and one of them is flamboyant while the other is not. The more flamboyant one has referred to himself as queer, but the other has never ever ever used that word, and has only referred to himself as gay or homosexual. I do not know if there is a correlation or not for sure, but those are their preferences.

charlotte49ers · Dec 22, 2009

I don't like the word queer at all. I think gay sounds much nicer and thought queer was derogatory? And then I heard the other day that the word homosexual was bad, too! I can't keep up.

StephanieFox · Dec 22, 2009

Gays have taken this word 'queer,' used as a pejorative, and reclaimed it as their own. This takes away the power of this word from the bigots. Right now, however, I would highly caution straight people from using it.

Celia Cyanide · Dec 22, 2009

Plot Device said:
Would I look old-fashioned if I slipped up and used the word "gay"? Would I look prejudiced?

No. The word "gay" is not archaic, nor is it offensive. It is just a word that refers specifically to same sex relationships.

The word "queer" is more inclusive because it also describes bisexual and transgendered people. "Queer" is not derrogarory to us anymore, because we have reclaimed it.

I'm not "gay," but I am "queer."

mscelina · Dec 22, 2009

Queer--when used between members of the gay community--is a word of power. Queer coming from someone outside the gay community can and will be taken as an insult. If you're 'family'--meaning gay or closely associated with the gay community--then queer is the correct term to use. Here again, though, it's all going to depend upon the situation, the individuals involved and the context in which the word is used.

Kitty Pryde · Dec 22, 2009

Queer was derogatory, but it has been 'reclaimed' as a positive word by many in the LGBTQ community. Though it can still be used as an insult. Comparable to 'bitch' or 'nigga', which are also considered positive by certain people. Or 'fag' or 'dyke', which can be insults, but is are also used positively by gays and lesbians.

Anyway, gay is okay, so is queer. Like max said, they don't mean the same thing. Gay means gay, but queer means anything other than plain ole straight (wikipedia sez "gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, intersex and non-normative heterosexual"). If you mean gay, say gay, and if you mean queer, say queer.

Don · Dec 22, 2009

I understand that culture shapes our language; I've heard the old saw about Eskimos having 47 words to describe snow, or some such.

Isn't it interesting that our language contains so many terms to describe characteristics of people that are really nobody else's business, and that many of those terms are undergoing constant revision? What does that say about our culture?

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, with the OT response "I don't know."

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 22, 2009

Can I just call them people?

DeleyanLee · Dec 22, 2009

I asked a friend of mine who's a psychologist working with QLTBG (he pronounced it "quiltbag" for whatever reason) teens accept their sexual identities because he'd used it several times and I thought the same thing as the OP.

His explanation was that "Queer not only takes back a word from the mouths of those who'd use it to hurt them, but it also encompasses those kids who aren't normal but don't know just where they fall in the spectrum. It gives them something to call themselves when they're still exploring their options."

It's still stunning when I hear it because of many decades of negative association, but I'm getting used to it.

From what he said, gay/lesbian/etc is still acceptable.

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 22, 2009

I like quiltbag.

aruna · Dec 22, 2009

Plot Device said:
Many years later, I learned that "black" was no longer acceptable (although certainly still beautiful), and that "African American" is now preferred (but that too may have changed as of late). And many police officers today are instructed to say "Tall African American Male."
.

De-rail:

African-American is just -- wrong. How do you know that a black person is American? You can't just assume that's the case. That "tall African American male" might in fact be Barbadian, Guyanese, British or -- gasp -- Nigerian. Nationality should not be used to describe race.

Derail over. (it's a pet peeve of mine; sorry!)

icerose · Dec 22, 2009

So it's like "nigger" if you're black you can use it, if you're not you can't.

Clear enough.

charlotte49ers · Dec 22, 2009

Quiltbag is kind of cute.

veinglory · Dec 22, 2009

Gay and queer, as mentioned above, a different words with different uses. A person who is queer is not necessarily gay.

Celia Cyanide · Dec 22, 2009

aruna said:
African-American is just -- wrong. How do you know that a black person is American?

Their accent? Where they live? What they tell you about themselves?

Celia Cyanide · Dec 22, 2009

icerose said:
So it's like "nigger" if you're black you can use it, if you're not you can't.

Clear enough.

IMHO, "queer" is moving towards being a word that people can use, if they are not a part of the in-group. Some colleges have "queer groups" and "queer studies." I think it depends how you use it. Some people still use it as an insult, but I would necessarily assume anyone who used it mean it that way.

veinglory · Dec 22, 2009

Celia Cyanide said:
Their accent? Where they live? What they tell you about themselves?

However a lot of people don't bother and blithley refer to all black people as African-American, even when they are African-African or African-British.

aruna · Dec 22, 2009

Celia Cyanide said:
Their accent? Where they live? What they tell you about themselves?

In the example I gave, all the police presumably know is his skin colour. yet they "assume" he's American.

veinglory said:
However a lot of people don't bother and blithley refer to all black people as African-American, even when they are African-African or African-British.

Exactly. I once read a review of the movie The Constant Gardener, in which the reviewer referred to an African in Africa character as "African-American". The word has come to be used as a general synonym for black. It's not.

skelly · Dec 22, 2009

veinglory said:
However a lot of people don't bother and blithley refer to all black people as African-American, even when they are African-African or African-British.

So we should go back to "black," or invent something like "non-white non-hispanic non-asian non-extraterrestrial person of indeterminate origin?"

And I've heard several ~~gay~~ ~~homosexual~~ ~~queer~~ whatever folks refer to themselves as "fag." I suppose that one is still an "inside" thing?

Celia Cyanide · Dec 22, 2009

aruna said:
In the example I gave, all the police presumably know is his skin colour. yet they "assume" he's American.

And yet there are many instances when we do know the person is American. Just because you don't know for sure by looking at someone does not mean the term should not be used at all. You can't always tell if people are black or white by looking at them either.

veinglory · Dec 22, 2009

Basically, gay/lesbian or homosexual is still the standard term.

Celia Cyanide · Dec 22, 2009

skelly said:
And I've heard several ~~gay~~ ~~homosexual~~ ~~queer~~ whatever folks refer to themselves as "fag." I suppose that one is still an "inside" thing?

I would say that it is. The word "queer" can be used as an insult, but it's not like you aren't supposed to say it. If that makes sense?

Maxinquaye · Dec 22, 2009

skelly said:
So we should go back to "black," or invent something like "non-white non-hispanic non-asian non-extraterrestrial person of indeterminate origin?"

And I've heard several ~~gay~~ ~~homosexual~~ ~~queer~~ whatever folks refer to themselves as "fag." I suppose that one is still an "inside" thing?

If I remember correctly, the Martin Luther King generation prefered the term "negro" to black. Black was a derogatory word; black as sin, the black sheep, and so on.

It's a quagmire.

Help me out: why is "queer" better than "gay"? (And WHEN is it better?)

A woman said to write like a man.

That cheeky buggerer

AW = Procrastination.

let it snow

Maybull the Bulldog

Joker Groupie

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

i luv you giant bear statue

All Living is Local

Court Jester

Writing Anarchist

Court Jester

On a wing and a prayer

Lost in School Work

let it snow

volitare nequeo

Joker Groupie

Joker Groupie

volitare nequeo

On a wing and a prayer

Kickin it old school, posers beware

Joker Groupie

volitare nequeo

Joker Groupie

That cheeky buggerer