Have I Become Religiously Intolerant?

rugcat

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Saw this yesterday.

Now, I think this is interesting because it shows the mindset of a certain segment of healthcare reform opponents.

But then I started thinking about my visceral reaction to the speakers. It was more than disagreement; they make my skin crawl. I see them not so much as on the wrong side of an issue, but as sick and seriously delusional.

The religious point man for this group is anti gay crusader, Lou Engle, whom you can hear speaking in an anti gay rally. The sight of US Senators sitting, listening to this man with bowed heads, profoundly disturbs me.

Is this just another point of view, religiously inspired? Should I respect their heartfelt beliefs and give them the respect that religion demands, or should I follow my own heart, point the finger at them, and state my own belief -- that this is a sickness infecting America?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUn4c-5wmvU
 
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Is this just another point of view, religiously inspired? Should I respect their heartfelt beliefs and give them the respect that religion demands, or should I follow my own heart, point the finger at them, and state my own belief -- that this is a sickness infecting America?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUn4c-5wmvU

I don't think Engle is Christian in terms of Christ's core teaching--love thy neighbor.

I think this is loathsome. I'm not impressed with the senators either. Nice separation of church and state there, guys; those senators are there in propre persona, as senators.

But most of all--it's making my skin crawl to listen to someone "praying" who is actually issuing orders.
 
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dclary

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Tolerance often begets intolerance, when you're forced to tolerate intolerable behavior.
 

Fran

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I think you should be as tolerant of their opposing opinions as they would be of yours. Do unto others and all that...
 

Cyia

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Respect is an odd thing.

There's a certain amount of respect given to people in religious office, and most people will give that respect whether or not they follow that religion. Priests, Preachers, Rabbis, Imams, Priestesses, monks, nuns - most people respect the office even if they don't like the person in it.

However, respect of opinions is a different thing. When a person takes an office (religious or political) the office is bigger than the one person. A person's opinions are not. If you don't respect the individual, it's hard to respect their opinions -- but you can still acknowledge their right to have them.

I can remember my Gov't teacher explaining a similar concept using a very unpopular politician. He said if the man were in the room, he'd expect us to listen to him and give him the respect deserving of his office. If he fell down, our teacher would expect someone to give him the respect owed to all humans and help him up. Once he was gone, we owed nothing to his stand on anything other than to decide whether or not we agreed with it.
 

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MOD NOTE: Folks, as much as this topic and event irritates me, personally?

They have the right to their opinion. And representing their version of their religion does not equal representing all versions of it.

Let's tread with some care here. Thanks.
 

rugcat

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MOD NOTE: Folks, as much as this topic and event irritates me, personally?

They have the right to their opinion. And representing their version of their religion does not equal representing all versions of it.

Let's tread with some care here. Thanks.
Well, there are two things here.

One is this: These pastors do not surprise or even horrify me. I understand there are religious fanatics of all stripes. I even believe that al qaeda doesn't represent the teachings of Islam, and as such their beliefs can be rightly vilified, without impugning the Muslim religion.

And I'm not talking about the right to an opinion. I'm talking about the duty to stand up and be heard -- to be able to say, without fear of accusations of "religion bashing" that these people's particular religious interpretations are abhorrent.

What bothers me more is the realization that we have US senators and representatives who not only buy into this madness, but explicitly state the belief that it's their sacred duty to implement these beliefs into public policy.
 

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I'm having to listen to it in little short bursts, because, well, nevermind, it's obvious. But I'm curious about the comments he's making that "we believe You rule over kings and that You actually rule in the Senate debate..."

Just this debate or does God rule all of them? Or just the ones that come out the way they like?

I'm not calling all prayer ridiculous, but I'm calling Mr.-really-needs-a-lozenge-Engle utterly ridiculous.
 

Don

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A theocracy is much more frightening to me than anything I think Obama is likely to even contemplate. Some liberals think the last eight years were hell. Unless they were raised in a southern baptist church or something even more fundamentalist, they don't have a clue what could be in store.

Imagine those folks in charge, and tell me you don't think a smaller, less powerful Federal government is a great idea. :)
 

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Well, there are two things here.

One is this: These pastors do not surprise or even horrify me. I understand there are religious fanatics of all stripes. I even believe that al qaeda doesn't represent the teachings of Islam, and as such their beliefs can be rightly vilified, without impugning the Muslim religion.

And I'm not talking about the right to an opinion. I'm talking about the duty to stand up and be heard -- to be able to say, without fear of accusations of "religion bashing" that these people's particular religious interpretations are abhorrent.

What bothers me more is the realization that we have US senators and representatives who not only buy into this madness, but explicitly state the belief that it's their sacred duty to implement these beliefs into public policy.

I very much agree, Sir. And I can hope that the voters they are supposed to be representing will have something to say about it. (Now, having lived there for a bit, I don't hold my breath for the land of Senator Strom Thurmond.)

But imagine the moral dillema. Which set of moneychangers do you get in bed with?
 

Don

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What he said.
Heinlein's If This Goes On --- would give you nightmares, then. Note the dates in this snippet of the synopsis -- then note the date of publication is 1940. Not bad prognosticating from 72 years out. :)
One of his Future History series, it recounts a future theocratic American society, ruled by the latest in a series of “Prophets.” The First Prophet was Nehemiah Scudder, a backwoods preacher turned President (elected in 2012), then dictator (no elections were held in 2016 or later).
 

SPMiller

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I doubt your skin would crawl so much if it were a prayer about brotherly love or some such benign thing.

Instead, what you're hearing is someone begging his god to intervene in the political process. He's leveraging the faith of his listeners, including, apparently, sitting Senators, and trying to unite them with an irrational appeal to faith when rational arguments would have done just as well. This seems a hideous misuse of religious belief and an abuse of trust.

Needless to say, I have a similar reaction to the video. The word I'd use is revulsion.
 
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maxmordon

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About the matters of politics and religiosity, I always keep in mind this phrase by JFK.

I am not the Catholic candidate for President. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for President, who happens also to be a Catholic.

John F. Kennedy
 

Zoombie

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A blithering, bigoted short sighted idiot with power is just as scary if he's an Atheist, Christian or Buddhist.
 

Death Wizard

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When you live in South Carolina, this kind of behavior is commonplace. It horrifies me, angers me, and depresses me. But a lot of the people who live in this state would cheer along with this video. To many, DeMint is a hero.
 

rugcat

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When you live in South Carolina, this kind of behavior is commonplace. It horrifies me, angers me, and depresses me. But a lot of the people who live in this state would cheer along with this video. To many, DeMint is a hero.
Oh yes. it's not like he somehow fooled everyone and thus gained his position of power. He is a true representative of the people -- and that's what depresses me so much.
 

Death Wizard

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Oh yes. it's not like he somehow fooled everyone and thus gained his position of power. He is a true representative of the people -- and that's what depresses me so much.

It's even more depressing when you're right there living beside it. Or within it. But there are many who not only would not find this offensive, they would cheer it. I don't know how many. Maybe 30 percent of the country? That's just a wild guess on my part, founded on nothing but opinion.
 

jennontheisland

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People talk about how theocracies shouldn't have the bomb. I shudder to think what would happen if the bible belt ever seceded and gained nuclear capabilities.
 

MGraybosch

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People talk about how theocracies shouldn't have the bomb. I shudder to think what would happen if the bible belt ever seceded and gained nuclear capabilities.

You should be shuddering now. The Bible Belt didn't have to secede in order to gain nuclear capability. Instead, it became a cancer feeding upon the American body politic. The only nation ever to use nuclear weapons in war is a nation subject to paroxysms of mass religious hysteria that its victims call "revivals".

I'm so used to being scared by this that my hands don't shake anymore.
 

Death Wizard

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You should be shuddering now. The Bible Belt didn't have to secede in order to gain nuclear capability. Instead, it became a cancer feeding upon the American body politic. The only nation ever to use nuclear weapons in war is a nation subject to paroxysms of mass religious hysteria that its victims call "revivals".

I'm so used to being scared by this that my hands don't shake anymore.

You nailed that ... no pun intended.